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Thread: Shayne Cramp gets trainers license suspended for 6 months for a driving offence???

  1. #11
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    Ash Singh
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    Barry did you see the immediate left hand turn he did as soon as they crossed the line?
    Have you ever seen that before by any other driver? So blatant.
    If you owned the horse he purposely drove into would you be happy if ANY driver did that to you? I doubt it!
    That was a dogs act Barry, 40 years i have been watching trots, havent seen everything in the game, but have seen a lot, but havent seen anyone do that, a great image for the game!, but Barry do you reckon that was ok?
    I am not commenting on the Douglas/ Cramp scenario, only the left hand turn into the other horse, woof!
    Last edited by teecee; 02-27-2013 at 10:09 PM.

  2. #12
    Junior Member Foal silky smooth will become famous soon enough
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    Just a couple of small questions if someone could please explain.
    Was Maria Caterina injured in the incident?
    Were the 5 so called separate witnesses from one camp?
    Did the Douglas/Cramp incident happen in front of a steward?
    please dont whinge about the two camps cause i dont care just after some facts
    thanks SS

  3. #13
    Super Moderator Horse Of The Year teecee has a spectacular aura about teecee's Avatar
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    Tony Cahill
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    If you want factual info suggest you research what you're after.
    You can start at www.hra.org.au/stewards wrap

  4. #14
    Senior Member Colt clumsy will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by little fish View Post
    I don't think anyone could disagree with you there.

    With that in mind can I ask what are your thoughts about the Douglas incident/penalty?
    The Douglas penalty was a different charge and can't be compared with the latest Cramp incident.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Toohard will become famous soon enough Toohard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silky smooth View Post
    Just a couple of small questions if someone could please explain.
    Was Maria Caterina injured in the incident?
    Were the 5 so called separate witnesses from one camp?
    Did the Douglas/Cramp incident happen in front of a steward?
    please dont whinge about the two camps cause i dont care just after some facts
    thanks SS
    Gday Pete
    I found this in original stewards report here http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-r...fm?mc=ML120213

    Maria Caterina underwent a veterinary examination immediately after the race. Club veterinary surgeon Dr Neville Japp reported that Maria Caterina had abrasions on both hind legs and its right fore leg as well as skin deep wounds. Maria Caterina was stood down from racing due to its injuries for a period of 7 days on veterinary advice.

    Can't help with other two though.

  6. #16
    Banned Filly little fish will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by clumsy View Post
    The Douglas penalty was a different charge and can't be compared with the latest Cramp incident.
    Cmon mate I think that is splitting hairs. Yes it was a different charge but the incidents in my opinion are quite comparable. One person cracks the shits being posted 3 wide and yanks someone out of a cart after the race (could've broken person's neck, horse could've flipped out bolted got hurt etc), the other person cracks the shits being posted 3 wide and steers his horse into another horse after the race (same, could've injured person and horse).

    Yet charges were very different. 1st person gets charged with harassment and threatening behaviour, and loses only their driving license for 6 months (bloke hardly drives though, training is his main role). Person 2 gets charged with foul driving and loses driving AND training license for 6 months.

    Sound fair?

    If person 1 was not charged with a driving offence then why lose driving license for 6 months?

    If person 1 did get charged with a driving offence, would it have been rule 168 the same as person 2 was charged with?

    Lots of head scratching here - I'm sure had person 1 copped a similar whack as person 2 the uproar would be far less intense

    As it stands I know for fact that a lot of people are suggesting favouritism and that they are out to get person 2

    That suggests lack of integrity, transparency, and possible corruption (??) - not that I am suggesting that mind you, I am sure stewards are acting appropriately and honestly - however given the perceived double standards that is what some people have suggested - just telling you what I have heard

    Another issue - why didn't stewards wait until results of the stay application tomorrow before scratching Jamie's Boy and The Ragpickers Dream from Charlton on sunday? Doesn't seem fair on the owners does it?

  7. #17
    Banned Filly little fish will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maorisidol View Post
    Barry did you see the immediate left hand turn he did as soon as they crossed the line?
    Have you ever seen that before by any other driver? So blatant.
    If you owned the horse he purposely drove into would you be happy if ANY driver did that to you? I doubt it!
    That was a dogs act Barry, 40 years i have been watching trots, havent seen everything in the game, but have seen a lot, but havent seen anyone do that, a great image for the game!, but Barry do you reckon that was ok?
    I am not commenting on the Douglas/ Cramp scenario, only the left hand turn into the other horse, woof!
    I'd be ropable if anyone did that to one of my horses!

    I'm not trying to be a Cramp apologist - if he had a brain snap and did it intentionally it was very immature and stupid and he deserves a solid whack.

    However in the context of my post above I think it is not that simple.

    Lets keep in mind he has never had barely a bad word to anyone in his 13 years in the industry. His record is pretty clean. He is not like as gruff and abrasive as his old man. Shayne is honest and hard working and tries his best to get along with everyone and never has a bad word to say about anyone. If the kid had a brain snap do you really go and take away his entire living for 6 months? Drivers license sure, but trainers license too? Harsh very harsh in my opinion.

  8. #18
    aussiebreno
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    And you think I'm in love with Quinny

    Douglas charged and found guilty of a 'general' offence as defined by the rule book. Penalty wasn't general but was for driving. Cramps penalty type is correct (I reckon too severe but moot point) whereas Douglas penalty type was incorrect. I commented on that at the time of Douglas penalty. The penalty makers got that one wrong.
    Last edited by teecee; 02-28-2013 at 06:07 PM.

  9. #19
    Banned Filly little fish will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiebreno View Post
    And you think I'm in love with Quinny

    Douglas charged and found guilty of a 'general' offence as defined by the rule book. Penalty wasn't general but was for driving. Cramps penalty type is correct (I reckon too severe but moot point) whereas Douglas penalty type was incorrect. I commented on that at the time of Douglas penalty. The penalty makers got that one wrong.
    This is exactly where I am coming from.

    Maorisidol I have not made any ridiculous assertions that he should be let off or as you put it, "Just because u have the Defence " I'm a good bloke, but I just belted you! Sorry I had a brain snap", I'm not gonna let u off..."

    That is clearly not what I or anyone else has said.

    If he is a good bloke and had a brain snap I agree that is not a reason to be let off however it IS something to be taken into consideration when deciding an appropriate penalty. As in the legal system your priors and any relevent patterns of behaviour should always be taken into consideration. Cramp's record is pretty clean and he is generally very fair and well liked - can you provide evidence to suggest otherwise?

    This is not a situation where a person has schemed and systematically rorted and cheated this is someone losing his cool in the heat of the moment. Still deserves a harsh penalty however as I've stated multiple times it needs to be in line with any set precedents.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clumsy View Post
    We cannot have this sort of behaviour being carried out by anyone without a strong penalty being given. It was Shayne Cramps second offence for a similar thing that might have counted against him this time
    Barry this may have something to do with it...second offence?
    To be honest i have no idea of his first "similar offence"
    I wonder if Clumsy could let us know what he knows?...or anyone else?

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