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Thread: Big stables less dominant recently?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Stallion Danno is a jewel in the rough
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    Big stables less dominant recently?

    Has anyone else noticed how in the last few weeks/month or so, that the stables that had been struggling for one reason or another seem to be competitive again lately.
    I'm sure there is a reason for this, hopefully some of the better informed/connected members of this forum can help shed some light?

    Cheers,
    Dan

  2. #2
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year broncobrad has a spectacular aura about
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    I am sure it has had nothing to do with the introduction in NSW of the tougher measures put in place last year ramping up disqualification periods for swabbing irregularities.

    Nor would it have anything to do with the fact that samples are held in cold storage waiting for the day when testing procedures can accommodate the newest and latest cheats drug of choice.

    Nor would it have anything to do with the fact that samples can currently be sent over to Hong Kong for stringent testing that may have some people thinking twice before crossing the line.

    It has been noticeable Dan, just that nobody was saying it.

    We give the stewards, the admin, the management stick all the time. But on this front they have made a lot of yards and they should be acknowledged for it. Keep up the good work. Public confidence in the product is paramount. But on this SMALL facet of integrity they can say they have actually done something...and there are some positive signs the work and cost involved is starting to yield dividends.

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    Senior Member 2YO HISGEN65 will become famous soon enough HISGEN65's Avatar
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    I have noticed it also Dan but more so in the medium to smaller sized stables...especially the seemingly lesser amount of HUGE runs that makes one scratch their head in bewilderment...
    maybe just maybe that ideal of competing on a level playing field is getting closer..lets hope.
    Maybe also because of the somewhat dwindling horse numbers & the tighter economic climate some people have finally worked out that their horses may be around a bit longer
    if they are allowed to run within the limits of their bodies..
    Last edited by HISGEN65; 04-05-2013 at 02:53 PM. Reason: edit

  4. #4
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year mightymo will become famous soon enough
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    I am interested to know which stables you guys are referring to. The McCarthy stable is the biggest stable around and their results in recent times havent changed one bit( not that I would expect there to be any noticeable difference). Just in the last month they have had the following big wins:
    Excel Stride - 3rd in ID, winning Easter Cup in 1.50.4
    Our Sixpence - winning Ladyship Mile, Young Cup
    All Black Stride - winning Bathurst Gold Crown, Rod Fitzpatrick
    Baby Bling - winning Goulburn Cup
    Bling It on - winning Sapling Stakes, Goulburn Sapling
    Grand Stride - Gr 2 Carnival Stakes

    Not too mention all the standard metro winners - I think they have had at least 2 winners at each Menangle meet and thats after they have sent a significant team up to QLD where they are winning races at every meet.

    So lets forget the innuendo and give some real examples....

  5. #5
    Senior Member Stallion Danno is a jewel in the rough
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    Gee Harvey, there was no innuendo...just an observation.
    you want some facts,real examples...

    I tallied the four metro meetings at Menangle in March...23/3/13 10 races won by 7 trainers.
    15/3/13 8 races won by 7 trainers
    9/3/13 8 races won by 8 trainers
    3/3/13 10 races won by 8 trainers
    totals 36 races won by 30 trainers

    now I randomly selected another 4 meetings in January and Dec/Nov 12......15/12/12..22/12/12...12/1/13...10/11/12

    totals 34 races won by 25 trainers.


    can you see the difference now Harvey?

    I noticed the difference lately and commented on it and as usual you jump to the conclusion I'm having a shot at your camp and I'm talking through my hat....once again wrong on both counts.

    Cheers,
    Dan

  6. #6
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year mightymo will become famous soon enough
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    Hardly a siginificant difference at all - in fact it might be worse. Did you think for a second that the meet on 03/03 was the ID final where the winner was trained by Gary Hall from WA, the Chariots winner was trained by Cran Dalgety from NZ, the Oaks winner by Dean Braun from Vic and the Derby winner by John Justice from Vic.

    Those 4 trainers would hardly have had a horse at Menangle outside that meet.

    If we take those 4 winners out, you have 32 races won by 26 tainers as opposed to 34 races won by 25 trainers... Massive difference?? I dont think so...

    As the saying goes, never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Whilst I was in Syd a few weeks ago, i was being told daily about all these trainers that had positive swabs to all sorts of substances, including one well know trainer to snake venom. Supposedly there were up to 50 positive swabs. Well, almost 4 weeks on and absolutely none of the rumours have as yet been confirmed as true.

    Is our industry totally clean? Absolutely not, but I genuinely do not believe that cheating is as widespread as rumoured. Further, I dont believe its the big stables that are the most likely cheaters. its more likely to be in the smaller stables, where significant improvers wont be identified as easily.

    PS - I have horses with many trainers. Not all in one camp. Besides McCarthy, I have horses with Andy Gath, Maree Caldow, Jayne Davies, Wayne Potter, Russell Jack, Dean Braun...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Stallion Danno is a jewel in the rough
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightymo View Post
    Hardly a siginificant difference at all - in fact it might be worse. Did you think for a second that the meet on 03/03 was the ID final where the winner was trained by Gary Hall from WA, the Chariots winner was trained by Cran Dalgety from NZ, the Oaks winner by Dean Braun from Vic and the Derby winner by John Justice from Vic.

    Those 4 trainers would hardly have had a horse at Menangle outside that meet.

    If we take those 4 winners out, you have 32 races won by 26 tainers as opposed to 34 races won by 25 trainers... Massive difference?? I dont think so...

    As the saying goes, never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Whilst I was in Syd a few weeks ago, i was being told daily about all these trainers that had positive swabs to all sorts of substances, including one well know trainer to snake venom. Supposedly there were up to 50 positive swabs. Well, almost 4 weeks on and absolutely none of the rumours have as yet been confirmed as true.

    Is our industry totally clean? Absolutely not, but I genuinely do not believe that cheating is as widespread as rumoured. Further, I dont believe its the big stables that are the most likely cheaters. its more likely to be in the smaller stables, where significant improvers wont be identified as easily.

    PS - I have horses with many trainers. Not all in one camp. Besides McCarthy, I have horses with Andy Gath, Maree Caldow, Jayne Davies, Wayne Potter, Russell Jack, Dean Braun...
    Geez forgive me Harvey,

    I must be dreaming again! I take 6 or 7 minutes to look at some results randomly to re-affirm an observation........and I get a response from you about the "most likely cheaters. its more likely to be in the smaller stables, where significant improvers wont be identified as easily"

    and something to the effect ", i was being told daily about all these trainers that had positive swabs to all sorts of substances, including one well know trainer to snake venom."

    Harvey, my observations were not just around Menangle, or NSW for that matter, there is ( like it or not) a current trend towards a widening gap in the trainers stakes, whereas in more recent times the winners were coming from a more compressed set of trainers.



    an old wise man told me once... there are 3 types of intelligence,

    1) those that are intelligent.

    2) those that think they are.

    3) and those that are so dumb they think they are more intelligent than those around them.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year mightymo will become famous soon enough
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    Dan

    You made the initial comments about "big stables being less dominant". I said I disagreed. You attempted to provide evidence, but that was actually shown to not prove your statement.

    Show me some facts and I will be happy to say Im wrong, but the bottom line is that in recent times the majority of trainers outed for drug offences are not big stables. McCarthy, Fitzpatrick, Turnbull etc were not the ones involved. Rather it was the smaller trainers.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Stallion Danno is a jewel in the rough
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    Harvey,

    I am not going to waste any more of my time,

    you must be right, I must therefore be an idiot

    totals 36 races won by 30 trainers


    totals 34 races won by 25 trainers.

    Many years ago I worked with a "white" south african bloke, he was a smart bloke except for when you disagreed with him..... and then he became a different bloke altogether he was then a "my way or the highway" fella to deal with.

    Cheers,
    Dan

  10. #10
    Senior Member 4YO p plater will become famous soon enough
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    It's an interesting topic. I agree it does appear that a greater mixture of trainers are earning the win dollars...good for the sport.

    I looked at the stats for the 5 Metro meeting in March 2012, before the heat was turned up on swabs.

    Races 42........Winning trainers 25.

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