Sprint Lanes - Albion Park

[aussiebreno]

With all due respect Ray, handicaping through barrier draws has been going on since Adam was a boy ( I think that's when we started pandering to the commercial breeders a little too much).
in other words, shortly after the advent of majority mobile starts, I think that would be around mid eighties...some brainwave came up with the idea of "handicapping through barrier draws" in mobile starts as they had been previously able to do so via distance in stands.

there remains an inherent problem which I think many participants would agree with, the current ( NSW anyway) PBD system assumes 1 is the best draw and 10 is the worst regardless of which track you are on and which distance you are racing over, which is VERY far from actuals in many cases.

Some ( thats probably many) are gunna groan when I say ,once again,.......the fairest sytem we had for handicapping was standing start racing with distance based handicaps, the move to mostly mobile racing has proven an abject failure in my opinion....when the naysayers come out in the droves to defend mobile racing, take note of who they are,what shape their involvement is in this game and how long they've been around.

Mostly mobile racing has been ONE of the factors which has made our racing product more difficult to sell.

Cheers,
Dan

Without knowing it you provided a very good case for mobile starts! You inferred the younger industry participants like thr mobile start. This is exactly why it is a better alternative than ss. Because the younger generations is what will keep the sport going in the future so its best to keep with the times!

[Danno]

Gotta good laugh there Brendan,
please explain???? ( hate to give her any air) BUT!!!,

where did I "infer" the younger industry participants preferred mobiles?

oops! sorry!! "when Adam was a boy"

Cheers, Dan,
still cacking my guts out

[aussiebreno]

Gotta good laugh there Brendan,
please explain???? ( hate to give her any air) BUT!!!,

where did I "infer" the younger industry participants preferred mobiles?

oops! sorry!! "when Adam was a boy"

Cheers, Dan,
still cacking my guts out

Take not of...how long theyve been around.

[Danno]

I suppose it could well be taken that way Brenno, however the intention in the comment was to point out the limited experience with Standing Starts as spectators,punters,participants etc.

The people who are still around that grew up with SS will,I believe, tell you SS racing had better handicapping, less odds on pops, around about the same % of horses missing "the kick" as does mobile racing these days.

It was nothing like the shambles you witness most of the time now because the horses,trainers and drivers were doing it all the time and were hence better trained and practiced.

Totally agree that the younger folk will be those taking the game into the future, my hope is there will still be some substance left in the game for them.

cheers,
Dan

[Danno]

Any opinions on the make up of the Tamworth fields and the barrier draws?

The aim is to make racing more competitive (less odds on favs) and to give many horses in every race the chance of earning money, due to racing against like horses regardless of a class achieved over time.

http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm?mc=TA260413

The proof will be in the eating I guess Adam, let's wait and see what happens, at the very least it's another angle to even up fields, the make up and barrier draws of race five in particular will make for interesting betting and racing.

Cheers,
Dan

[Danno]

Four favorites home and 4 "roughies", I think it's worth noting 2 of the beaten fav's were driven in a style unfamiliar to the Brian Hancock's of the world.

How did the races hold turnover wise Adam?

[moncalier]

Jeroen,

The following week again all winners sat on the pegs and in 5 races all placegetters sat 1,2,3 on the pegs. There is definitely a problem. I don't think it can all be blamed on the passing lane as the design of the track is also a contributing factor. Horses which race wide on the top bend lose ground. If you watch a replay of the 4 year old mares Triad final you will note that the second favourite Suki Suki, a noted brilliant finisher, sat in last position one off the pegs then pulled 4 and 5 wide at the 350 metre mark to finish well and come 4th. The horse that raced immediately to its inside, Jazzy Jasper stuck to the pegs and finished 5th, a mere metre behind Suki Suki. Suki Suki is an M1 C9 whilst Jazzy Jasper is a C1! Rocklea may have closed but the racing style lives on at Albion Park. Until something is done to redress this track bias I suggest that owners of promising run on horses send them south to compete at Menangle and Newcastle as they will have more chance. The construction of a new 1000 metre track at Bathurst is another incentive to send these horses to NSW.

[HarnessFan]

Hi John
I am not totally against sprint lanes, I can see that the impact is not so detrimental at Globe Derby (as an example).
Your comments regarding Albion Park are correct and the banking has been inadequate for so long.
I started the thread commenting that Albion Park had just had a track resurface - so the problem must be fundamental to the track design.
I occasionally go to participant meetings (BOTRA) and raise the issue, it is so frustrating to argue the point.
So many really like the concept of waiting for a draw and a chance to win.

[Richard prior]

Hi Dan, I've just read your reply to the Barrier draw situation and yes, the old days when we had the better horses starting off handicaps in standing start races were very fair for all included. I think the way to go would be to give the best horse in a field the worst possible draw. If you have a field of 12 starters, you could have rankings for the horses, ability wise, and rankings for the barrier draws, from worst to best.The better horses could draw the worst barriers in order of ability,say the best horse draws outside the back row, the 2nd best horse draws outside the front row and so on. I'm sure that I will cop a bit of flak over this, but it would certainly make the racing more interesting and fairer for all included. It would really make the betting a lot more interesting and as they say, the cream will still rise to the surface, the better horse can still win, but all the horse have a fairer chance. Nothing worse than seeing an odds on pop just roll around in an exercise gallop, after drawing say 1 to 4, and bolt in and pay $1.20 and money back, this is not a spectacle and a spectacle is what we need to create.

[Danno]

Nothing worse than seeing an odds on pop just roll around in an exercise gallop, after drawing say 1 to 4, and bolt in and pay $1.20 and money back, this is not a spectacle and a spectacle is what we need to create.

Thanks for your thoughts Richard, we are getting a fair way off the original point of this thread ( thanks in part to yours truly)however it is good to hear from someone who understands that standing start racing was and can be a fairer handicapping system whilst delivering a better wagering product, so few of the people contributing to this forum actually understand this as so few were actively involved before mostly mobile racing became entrenched.

The preferential barrier system in place currently does assist with handicapping however, it does at the very least, require significant adjustment for a couple of reasons.

1) Barriers 10 through to 1 in that order are not necessarily worst to best.....it depends on the track you are racing on and the starting point for the distance you are racing over.

2) Conditions for races are allowing better horses to very lightly handicapped when the barrier draw is the only handicapping tool. eg. C2 to C4 PDC. in many cases there are as many C4 horse as C2 and some of the C4 horse are starting in better barrier positions on the front line than the C2's.

I think most people want to see open racing where there are many chances in each race not just a small handful , so I think it's more about getting people to agree on how that is delivered in an era where there is a perception that our industry locally should try to mirror what happens in North American ( when frankly in my opinion they have had the bull by the tail since the days of Dan Patch and Star Pointer).

I think we should take the best of what's available everywhere to enhance our sport and not copy anything but use our local strengths, knock the edges off with some new thinking and protect our image/brand ( which REALLY needs to rebuilt)

Cheers,
Dan