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Thread: Speed Explosion - Track Records and outstanding times

  1. #531
    Super Moderator Stallion Richard prior will become famous soon enough Richard prior's Avatar
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    Very impressive Kev, Beach Surge mother Lagoon Lady was a pretty decent performer on the track also

  2. #532
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Thinking about how horses break records without finding the pegs (like Beach Surge death seating it to the record at YV), I was doing some calculations on how much faster they actually go for every sulky width they are off the pegs.
    For a short race like at YV with only 2 bends = a circle and the circumference of a circle is 2πR so every 1.4m off (taking a sulky width to be 1.3m) means 2 x 3.14 x 1.4 = aprox 9m further.

    I was going to add the 9m to the length of the race eg for Beach Surge it became 1659 instead of 1650m then divide the race time by this distance then multiply it by 1609 to get the Mile Rate

    but before I did this I struck a hiccup

    Is Race Time ÷ Race Distance x 1609 the way Mile Rate is calculated?

    The reason I ask is I did this for Beach Surge's Race Time of 1.57.1 over 1650m and came up with a MR of 1.54.7 (actually closer to 1.54.8) but yesterday's results states his MR to be 1.54.3 Maybe the .3 is a typo and hence the reason that Beach Surge has not been credited with a new Tk Record

    (No it is not a typo as I looked up the race for Outrageous El creating the record in 2014 and her Race Time was only 1.57.4 so this is a new Tk Rec)

    I know I love Maths but is there anybody out there that knows how they calculate MR as I would have thought it has to be the above formula and my calculations for Beach Surge to be correct

    ( I did approximate that at 1.55 pace over say a 1609m race, 9m takes over 0.6 secs so if Beach Surge had been doing the same pace on the pegs that is approximately how much faster his new Tk Rec would have been)
    Last edited by Messenger; 04-10-2018 at 09:04 PM. Reason: see Blue
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  3. #533
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    Thinking about how horses break records without finding the pegs (like Beach Surge death seating it to the record at YV), I was doing some calculations on how much faster they actually go for every sulky width they are off the pegs.
    For a short race like at YV with only 2 bends = a circle and the circumference of a circle is 2πR so every 1.4m off (taking a sulky width to be 1.3m) means 2 x 3.14 x 1.4 = aprox 9m further.

    I was going to add the 9m to the length of the race eg for Beach Surge it became 1659 instead of 1650m then divide the race time by this distance then multiply it by 1609 to get the Mile Rate

    but before I did this I struck a hiccup

    Is Race Time ÷ Race Distance x 1609 the way Mile Rate is calculated?

    The reason I ask is I did this for Beach Surge's Race Time of 1.57.1 over 1650m and came up with a MR of 1.54.7 (actually closer to 1.54.8) but yesterday's results states his MR to be 1.54.3 Maybe the .3 is a typo and hence the reason that Beach Surge has not been credited with a new Tk Record

    (No it is not a typo as I looked up the race for Outrageous El creating the record in 2014 and her Race Time was only 1.57.4 so this is a new Tk Rec)

    I know I love Maths but is there anybody out there that knows how they calculate MR as I would have thought it has to be the above formula and my calculations for Beach Surge to be correct

    ( I did approximate that at 1.55 pace over say a 1609m race, 9m takes over 0.6 secs so if Beach Surge had been doing the same pace on the pegs that is approximately how much faster his new Tk Rec would have been)
    Would it be 117.1 seconds / 1650m = 0.07097 s/m. Then * 1609.34m = 114.21 (1.54.2 or for some reason round up to 1.54.3?)

  4. #534
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiebreno View Post
    Would it be 117.1 seconds / 1650m = 0.07097 s/m. Then * 1609.34m = 114.21 (1.54.2 or for some reason round up to 1.54.3?)
    That is exactly what I did and got 1.54.7 I MUST HAVE MISKEYED SOMEWHERE

    Thanks for checking my work Brenno. The formula is correct

    So I can now say Beach Surge (having travelled 9m further 1 wide) really rated

    117.1 ÷ 1659 x 1609.34 = 1.53.6
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  5. #535
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    My maths is really out, thanks DS for reminding me that there are 3 turns in a 1650m race on a 1000m track.
    Beach Surge was in the death (and racing every bit of 1.4m off the pegs) for 2½ bends so he easily would have covered an extra 11m

    117.1 ÷ 1661 x 1609 = 1.53.4 MR
    Last edited by Messenger; 04-11-2018 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Maths still wrong!
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  6. #536
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year arlington will become famous soon enough
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    1609.0 m is the accepted mile. For example, the gross times for Geelong and Charlton 1609 races is the mile rate.

    Thinking about how horses break records without finding the pegs (like Beach Surge death seating it to the record at YV), I was doing some calculations on how much faster they actually go for every sulky width they are off the pegs.

    It's amazing what competition does for some horses Kev, and perhaps, in some cases, some horses, some tracks, it's easier on the horse travelling the bigger radius compared to on the rail? Take Melton for an example, which is a bit of the opposite. Mildura tonight, another example. Messini's last half, what would it equate to if he hugged the rail? Sure, he had a trail but would he have run the mathematical time on the rail?

    Don't want to go off topic or steal your post Kev but pure speed amazes me more than mile rates and track records. Especially these days, gets a bit ho hum.
    An outstanding sectional time, Poster Boy last Q 25.9 Saturday night Melton and not as outstanding, last Q 26.8 from Shez All Rock Friday night Shepparton but somewhere in that quarter I reckon shez gone close to 12s for a furlong without the benefit of Melton's bias. http://www.harness.org.au/video-repl...de=SPC06041804

  7. #537
    Senior Member 2YO Bonnie will become famous soon enough
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    How good did Our Little General go last night at Mildura ! Races like that bring people to the track. He is an amazing horse ❤️ I miss the good horses and competitive racing , no truly Metro meetings at Melton or Free for Alls to attract our better horses and provide an exciting nights racing. When Lenny retires where is our next Hero coming from.

  8. #538
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arlington View Post
    1609.0 m is the accepted mile. For example, the gross times for Geelong and Charlton 1609 races is the mile rate.

    Thinking about how horses break records without finding the pegs (like Beach Surge death seating it to the record at YV), I was doing some calculations on how much faster they actually go for every sulky width they are off the pegs.

    It's amazing what competition does for some horses Kev, and perhaps, in some cases, some horses, some tracks, it's easier on the horse travelling the bigger radius compared to on the rail? Take Melton for an example, which is a bit of the opposite. Mildura tonight, another example. Messini's last half, what would it equate to if he hugged the rail? Sure, he had a trail but would he have run the mathematical time on the rail?

    Don't want to go off topic or steal your post Kev but pure speed amazes me more than mile rates and track records. Especially these days, gets a bit ho hum.
    An outstanding sectional time, Poster Boy last Q 25.9 Saturday night Melton and not as outstanding, last Q 26.8 from Shez All Rock Friday night Shepparton but somewhere in that quarter I reckon shez gone close to 12s for a furlong without the benefit of Melton's bias. http://www.harness.org.au/video-repl...de=SPC06041804
    I reckon Messini made up 5m in the last lap while travelling an extra 18m so he has pretty much gone 821m (taken off the 2m he was behind Sam) in 55.4
    so if my maths is right this time he has run the equivalent of a 54 flat last half at the end of 2600m

    I too noticed Poster Boy's last quarter of 25.9 last Saturday - meant to put it in this thread - now it is
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  9. #539
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I was asked what Soho Tribeca's MR might have been in the Miracle Mile
    I will give him the same time as the winner 1.46.9 but calculate that he travelled an extra 11m based on him being 2 sulkies wide for half the first bend and 1 sulky wide for the rest of it and for all the second bend
    so he did 1.46.9 for 1620m which when converted to a MR is about 1.46.2 (which the Americans call 1.46.1 as they talk in fifths)
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  10. #540
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Cruz has reduced the Horsham 1700m Tk Rec to 1.53.0 from the previous 1.53.8 leading and winning a C1 by 17m on Cup Day

    http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...ic#HSC22041803
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