cobalt

[Messenger]

Compulsory reading

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...18-12sr08.html

Quotes:

In Hong Kong, where the threshold is half that of Racing Victoria at 100, 7500 urine samples have been tested for cobalt since 2006. They showed unsupplemented horses to have urine cobalt levels in the range of five to 10, with an average level of 3.7.

The Hong Kong laboratory then performed a detailed study on a variety of legitimate cobalt supplements.

The results showed that oral supplements had virtually no effect on cobalt levels. Whilst injectable cobalt supplements did have the potential to elevate urine cobalt levels over the Hong Kong threshold, this excess over the threshold was very short-lived, lasting only six to 11 hours.

This point is lost on many in the industry. To reach the levels above 200 micrograms would mean that the horse would have to be therapeutically treated on the day of a race, which is also banned in Australia.

The result in Hong Kong caused the laboratory to propose that injectable cobalt supplements should not be given on race days.

That should not be a consideration here, as in Australia all race day treatments are against the rules.

In the US, a study has been done "doping" horses with non-proprietary cobalt from a compounding pharmacy.

In the study, after a single injection of cobalt, urine levels rose to 4000 but within 24 hours had dropped to 240, slightly above Racing Victoria's threshold of 200.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...18-12sr08.html

[kung fu man]

Compulsory reading

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...18-12sr08.html

Quotes:

In Hong Kong, where the threshold is half that of Racing Victoria at 100, 7500 urine samples have been tested for cobalt since 2006. They showed unsupplemented horses to have urine cobalt levels in the range of five to 10, with an average level of 3.7.

The Hong Kong laboratory then performed a detailed study on a variety of legitimate cobalt supplements.

The results showed that oral supplements had virtually no effect on cobalt levels. Whilst injectable cobalt supplements did have the potential to elevate urine cobalt levels over the Hong Kong threshold, this excess over the threshold was very short-lived, lasting only six to 11 hours.

This point is lost on many in the industry. To reach the levels above 200 micrograms would mean that the horse would have to be therapeutically treated on the day of a race, which is also banned in Australia.

The result in Hong Kong caused the laboratory to propose that injectable cobalt supplements should not be given on race days.

That should not be a consideration here, as in Australia all race day treatments are against the rules.

In the US, a study has been done "doping" horses with non-proprietary cobalt from a compounding pharmacy.

In the study, after a single injection of cobalt, urine levels rose to 4000 but within 24 hours had dropped to 240, slightly above Racing Victoria's threshold of 200.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse...18-12sr08.html

Kevin do you have a copy of the second link it seems to have been removed from the place it once was.

[arlington]

Danny's radio interview Saturday morning.
https://soundcloud.com/sen1116/danny-Obrien


"Progressive" trainers..."progressive" vets? In retrospect, maybe not so progressive in keeping up with the rules?

[allanjg]

i have just finished listening to the danny o`brien radio interview,and i must say that i have never heard so much claptrap in my life,if he and a couple of others are the "best" trainers in the industry and his vet is a leader in the profession,then my gonads are made of marble.

[Messenger]

Kevin do you have a copy of the second link it seems to have been removed from the place it once was.

It is the same as the first link Warren, it is just that I was taught to acknowledge source at top and bottom - is it coming up for you? Sometimes the same story in the Age is harder to link than the SMH

[barney]

Just seen that Colin McDowell has horses entered at Bankstown bit surprised as im sure i saw somewhere that a horse he was listed as trainer of went for cobalt chloride.This may have been a misprint i guess

[barney]

Just seen that Colin McDowell has horses entered at Bankstown bit surprised as im sure i saw somewhere that a horse he was listed as trainer of went for cobalt chloride.This may have been a misprint i guess

Did see it on 2/6/14 Butterfly princess 200 which is allowable limit so must not have been charged .Just for interest same horse 22/7 reading was 42

[Mister JayKO]

This will be a landmark case make no mistake. If you are following it via various forums there is two very distinct schools of thought. In the Red Corner, we have The Realists - who can quote some of the excellent work done by The NSW stewards lead by Reid Sanders and the data collected which would seem to disprove the ability for a horse to get the false negative proposed by Danny O'Brien and co. Terry Bailey and co will have a massive fight on their hands given who he is up against.

In the Blue Corner, we have the deniers and or the establishment - three of the biggest names in the game. The red corner will be severely tested by legalistic argument if you follow the lead of some other forums. This could well mirror the drawn ASADA / Essendon saga in terms of time and wasted lawyers fees.

I am no scientist or lawyer, but if following the testing done by HRNSW is anything to go by, then I would form the view that 200 is a more than acceptable limit given the data.

I read with interest the comments made by Danny O'Brien regarding "standard practices". Since when did it become standard practice to give a racehorse of any description an IV Drip full of supplements! How can you expect hobby trainer Joe Blow to compete with these jokers who employ full time vets pumping horses full of God knows what via IV drips?

Everyone wants a level playing field, when Lance Armstrong was outed - it confirmed a lot of what I had been thinking for a long time. Several people have looked to discredit journalists like Andrew Rule, but to my mind he doesn't get involved unless he believes there is a story - dead men tell no tales, but it is hard to discredit the work he has done with regard to harness racing in the past. When you see horses continually "improved" by trainers you have to ask questions. The chemists will always be one step ahead of the testers - but by sharing information between jurisdictions you can close the gap. Bottom line if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck..........
The threshold was introduced on April 1, trainers were warned about the use of supplements and treatments that contained cobalt when the threshold was released. How Danny O'Brien can claim he had never heard of cobalt until a week ago is frankly preposterous. Has he been living under a rock?

I am a realist, for the sake of both industries, the right outcome needs to be reached. To my mind that is if they test over 200mg per litre of urine and knowingly gave the treatments (which O'Brien has admitted to) then it should be very clear cut.

The sooner the threshold is brought down to 100mg the better. It's also intriguing to not the potential crossover use of lasix to offset the potential downside of cobalt.

Just how many horses run around on bone and muscle these dayside? Or am I naive to suggest that some still do?

[Amlin]

I agree Stu - hands up who cares for the animal anymore? (many do I know but the actions of those that don't will do their best to ruin it for everyone else)


It's a funny thing - we make these animals run, and if they don't run as fast as we need we then whip them and fill them full of drugs to get them to do what we want - even if they just are not capable in the first place.

[Messenger]

This will be a landmark case make no mistake. If you are following it via various forums there is two very distinct schools of thought. In the Red Corner, we have The Realists - who can quote some of the excellent work done by The NSW stewards lead by Reid Sanders and the data collected which would seem to disprove the ability for a horse to get the false negative proposed by Danny O'Brien and co. Terry Bailey and co will have a massive fight on their hands given who he is up against.

In the Blue Corner, we have the deniers and or the establishment - three of the biggest names in the game. The red corner will be severely tested by legalistic argument if you follow the lead of some other forums. This could well mirror the drawn ASADA / Essendon saga in terms of time and wasted lawyers fees.

I am no scientist or lawyer, but if following the testing done by HRNSW is anything to go by, then I would form the view that 200 is a more than acceptable limit given the data.

I read with interest the comments made by Danny O'Brien regarding "standard practices". Since when did it become standard practice to give a racehorse of any description an IV Drip full of supplements! How can you expect hobby trainer Joe Blow to compete with these jokers who employ full time vets pumping horses full of God knows what via IV drips?

Everyone wants a level playing field, when Lance Armstrong was outed - it confirmed a lot of what I had been thinking for a long time. Several people have looked to discredit journalists like Andrew Rule, but to my mind he doesn't get involved unless he believes there is a story - dead men tell no tales, but it is hard to discredit the work he has done with regard to harness racing in the past. When you see horses continually "improved" by trainers you have to ask questions. The chemists will always be one step ahead of the testers - but by sharing information between jurisdictions you can close the gap. Bottom line if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck..........
The threshold was introduced on April 1, trainers were warned about the use of supplements and treatments that contained cobalt when the threshold was released. How Danny O'Brien can claim he had never heard of cobalt until a week ago is frankly preposterous. Has he been living under a rock?

I am a realist, for the sake of both industries, the right outcome needs to be reached. To my mind that is if they test over 200mg per litre of urine and knowingly gave the treatments (which O'Brien has admitted to) then it should be very clear cut.

The sooner the threshold is brought down to 100mg the better. It's also intriguing to not the potential crossover use of lasix to offset the potential downside of cobalt.

Just how many horses run around on bone and muscle these dayside? Or am I naive to suggest that some still do?

You are understating it when you say 'more than acceptable' Stu (I do note that you later suggest 100 - I think it is Ug not mg)
You could say 'unbelievably generous'
I will put this link up again as it states the chances of a false positive of 200ug/L
as over 2 TRILLION to 1
that is a 2 with twelve zeros after it
or to quote the table exactly
2258000000000/1

http://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decisi...04de94513dc6d3