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Thread: cobalt

  1. #741
    Member Filly Boydy will become famous soon enough
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    Adam Boyd
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    Kevin, no I am not saying that.

    However in my opinion and more importantly a world renowned vet like Nick Kannegieter has said that there is insufficient research to prove what the effects of cobalt are on horses in different situations and whether they are performance enhancing. The reality is the stewards cannot determine the difference between a positive swab from an approved supplement or a unapproved concoction. Unless like one trainer in NSW they found the concoction in his stables.

    I believe that ever case should be access on its merits but with regards Cobalt I do not think this has happened.

    With regards Peter Moody considering he seems to have no connection with disgraced vets, disqualified persons or colourful racing identities I think he it maybe be advantageous in him fighting his case.

  2. #742
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy View Post
    Kevin, no I am not saying that.

    However in my opinion and more importantly a world renowned vet like Nick Kannegieter has said that there is insufficient research to prove what the effects of cobalt are on horses in different situations and whether they are performance enhancing. The reality is the stewards cannot determine the difference between a positive swab from an approved supplement or a unapproved concoction. Unless like one trainer in NSW they found the concoction in his stables.

    I believe that ever case should be access on its merits but with regards Cobalt I do not think this has happened.

    With regards Peter Moody considering he seems to have no connection with disgraced vets, disqualified persons or colourful racing identities I think he it maybe be advantageous in him fighting his case.
    Adam, if you are not saying that then this statement seems highly ambiguous

    "Clearly approved substances contain Cobalt and even HRNSW trials that a horse can get over the level with approved supplements."
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  3. #743
    Member Filly Boydy will become famous soon enough
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    Adam Boyd
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    Kevin,

    I am not sure why you consider this ambiguous.

    Approved supplements such as Hemoplex, Hemo-15 and VAM all contain cobalt.

    HRNSW trials used 10ml of Hemo-15 for 3 consecutive days and recorded levels well in excess 200ug/L.

    There is one disqualified trainer that received a horse from another trainer and the original trainer has testified that they treated the horse with 600ml (Combined 200ml of each) of Hemo-15, Hemoplex and VAM in 22 days and apparently the testing HRNSW has conducted is consistent with this regime.

    Kevin, you are an educated man, would you be comfortable with the HRNSW trial being used as a comparison against yourself. The only other trial was completed in the US where a massive dose of Cobalt was given in one administration. However, even HRNSW testing shows the levels rise if you treat horse with smaller doses over a longer period.

  4. #744
    Member Filly allanjg will become famous soon enough
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    allan gee
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    hi adam and kevin,i have just read post 739 from you adam and i think that the legal limit of cobalt allowed in a swab is 200mg/L of urine and not 200ug/L of urine...as hemo-15 contains 0.7 mg cobalt per 1 ml of hemo-15 and the recommended dose is 10ml per 100 kg of horse per treatment it only stands to reason that the horse will have a high ug/L reading.... just to refresh every ones minds 1 mg/L =1000 ug/L....i will stand corrected on this but i think that i am right.

  5. #745
    Member Filly Boydy will become famous soon enough
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    Adam Boyd
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    I have to correct you Allan it is 200ug/L

    I will provide the link to the records.

    http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au...2027082014.pdf

  6. #746
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I am really confused now Adam
    I asked you
    "are you saying that horses using approved supplements only can register a 200+ positive"
    and you replied
    "Kevin, no I am not saying that"
    but then you told me
    "Approved supplements such as Hemoplex, Hemo-15 and VAM all contain cobalt.
    HRNSW trials used 10ml of Hemo-15 for 3 consecutive days and recorded levels well in excess 200ug/L
    ."
    So the answer is Yes?
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  7. #747
    Member Filly allanjg will become famous soon enough
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    allan gee
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    adam,adam,adam, please check this out....1ug/ml=1000ug/L or 1ug/L=0.001 ug/ml.... and as for your link,i have read that,and you will notice that 95% of the horses tested were way ,way below the legal limit.adam check out the the horses that went over the limit and you find that the trainers concerned have been rubbed out...

  8. #748
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allanjg View Post
    hi adam and kevin,i have just read post 739 from you adam and i think that the legal limit of cobalt allowed in a swab is 200mg/L of urine and not 200ug/L of urine...as hemo-15 contains 0.7 mg cobalt per 1 ml of hemo-15 and the recommended dose is 10ml per 100 kg of horse per treatment it only stands to reason that the horse will have a high ug/L reading.... just to refresh every ones minds 1 mg/L =1000 ug/L....i will stand corrected on this but i think that i am right.
    It is 200ug/L Allan
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  9. #749
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia...-cobalt-dramas

    "Courtesy of last week’s dramatic cobalt hearing in Australia before the Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board, a grotesque portrait now exists of handsome young horse vet Adam Matthews."
    ..............................
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  10. #750
    Senior Member 3YO barney will become famous soon enough
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    brian campbell
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    Havent posted here for awhile but the simple fact of all this Cobalt is a banned product over a certain limit and if you present a horse to race over that limit no matter who is to blame the buck stops with the trainer and he is Guilty and must pay the price.

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