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Thread: cobalt

  1. #111
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year mightymo will become famous soon enough
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    Just playing devils advocate here:

    Some of the trainers returning positives to Cobalt have very long and unblemished careers but with a threshold for Cobalt only recently introduced late last year, is it possible that the level that has been set is just too low??

  2. #112
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightymo View Post
    Just playing devils advocate here:

    Some of the trainers returning positives to Cobalt have very long and unblemished careers but with a threshold for Cobalt only recently introduced late last year, is it possible that the level that has been set is just too low??
    This and similar excuses crossed my mind too, but Nicholson and Hardy both pleaded guilty. Of course they pled guilty to presenting a horse to the races with prohibited substance, rather than pleading guilty to actually administering Cobalt which is two different things. BUT...while I personally have only read stewards wraps and some media reports, I haven't seen Nicholson or Hardy try to protest some form of innocence that they did not actually administer cobalt. If they aren't protesting innocence or leniency in that they didn't actually administer cobalt, then surely one can assume that they did in fact administer it?

    Whether it's a new or an old level I guess people can always try and argue that the level is set too low. I wonder if we need to review the level for Bicarb, Bute etc what do you think?

    Edit: I just read another link saying Hardy pled not guilty so there goes this post lol!
    Last edited by aussiebreno; 05-02-2014 at 03:34 PM.

  3. #113
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year mightymo will become famous soon enough
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    Im not an expert in this field, but we have years of data to use regarding most of these naturally occurring substances. Many jurisdictions and codes have yet to implement any levels for Cobalt as they dont know what level to use as a threshold.

    With these positives all happening long after trainers were put on notice about the cobalt issue, I just cant believe that so many trainers would be stupid enough to continue using and hence i have concerns that the level may be too low and is picking up positives where there has been no additional administration of cobalt.

    PS - i have no relationship with any of the trainers suspended so its not like im going in to bat for someone. I am genuinely raising a possible issue

  4. #114
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year trish will become famous soon enough
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    Hi Harvey . HRNSW have set their level at twice what the Hong Kong Jockey Club set their level at . Reid Sanders would never jump in half baked . I understand he left no stone unturned and worked closely with the HKJC to establish a more than fair level that actually is biased towards the trainer . They've set this level for a reason and as an owner / breeder I actually feel that a weight has been lifted and now that , if our horses are good enough , they have a fair chance .

    P.S None of us know how far over the limit these trainers went so your argument may be invalid

  5. #115
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year mightymo will become famous soon enough
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    I wasnt aware that the level is actually double the HKJC. if that is the case, then maybe there are a whole bunch of dumb trainers who are either cheating or giving there horses products of which they do not know the contents...

  6. #116
    Senior Member 2YO Njcstables will become famous soon enough
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    Harvey, I believe you've hit the nail on the head on both counts there!

  7. #117
    Super Moderator Stallion mango will become famous soon enough mango's Avatar
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    Hi Harvey

    I think it is 90 for cobalt in America and 200 in n.s.w but I will try and confirm that (America). A lot of horse products have cobalt in them and when using multiple products it may raise the horses levels. As I don't know how high the levels have been with the trainers who have been stood down I'll sit on the fence on this one. The question I would like to ask is why does a trainer get stood down and has to move horses to other trainers before he has been before the stewards and a decision handed down, because if found not guilty it could open up legal ramifications for h.r.n.s.w one would think.

  8. #118
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Toohard will become famous soon enough Toohard's Avatar
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    Am no expert but believe Cobalt by itself is not performance enhancing. Natural element in ground. Guess works its way into horses via grazing on pasture. Most feeds you buy contain cobalt. Enough to make up for any deficiency in pasture have read. Feeds for younger horses contain more than feeds for older ones. Guess something horses need when growing. From what have read feeding a product with cobalt in it when paddock already had enough cobalt in it would put you nowhere near the limits recently introduced.

    Cobalt Chloride a different thing. Man made. Think it mainly used like a paint stripper. Poisonous. But in small doses can make horse 'fight' against it by producing heaps red blood cells. Red ones carry oxygen. Refer EPO, etc.

    Told and read there is no test for Cobalt Chloride. The chloride part disappears real quick as horses body removes it by producing red bloods cells to combat it. But the cobalt hang around for a while and can be tested for.

    Guess you get over limit to it (cobalt) they saying "How it get there?" Can't be from feed (maybe) so how it get there?

    Do Google search "Cobalt Chloride" and have a read. One still there today says "Doesn't swab"...

  9. #119
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year trish will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightymo View Post
    I wasnt aware that the level is actually double the HKJC. if that is the case, then maybe there are a whole bunch of dumb trainers who are either cheating or giving there horses products of which they do not know the contents...
    For the first time ever Harvey we fully agree.
    In Hong Kong the threshold is 100 micrograms per litre.
    At the Meadowlands it is 200.

  10. #120
    Senior Member 4YO Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by mango View Post
    Hi Harvey

    I think it is 90 for cobalt in America and 200 in n.s.w but I will try and confirm that (America). A lot of horse products have cobalt in them and when using multiple products it may raise the horses levels. As I don't know how high the levels have been with the trainers who have been stood down I'll sit on the fence on this one. The question I would like to ask is why does a trainer get stood down and has to move horses to other trainers before he has been before the stewards and a decision handed down, because if found not guilty it could open up legal ramifications for h.r.n.s.w one would think.
    But arent they guilty already because they have a 'positive', and are waiting for the sentence? After that they have to prove their innocence? Is that correct?

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