Breeding

[Greg Hando]

I came across a mare from the Lis Mara family named Lisconnie who is by Western Ideal a beautifully bred mare i would say but what struck me as strange unless it's a miss print is that Lisconnie has been bred to American Ideal who's father is by Western Ideal.

Mango you say American Ideal is by a son of Western Ideal that would make the foal 3 x 2 or have i read it wrong

[mango]

Hi Winston

Yeah i can understand where i wrote it down wrong, Western Ideal is the father of Lisconnie and American Ideal.

[mightymo]

Hi Triple

Thanks for the insight and that's what i was looking for people to give example's to give me an idea as how successfull it has been and how many time's it has been tried. The reason i brought this topic up is i was told never to go any closer than 3x3 so i was looking to see other's thought's and idea's. When looking at a stallion for a mare i alway's look at race track performance, conformation and i look at how strong the family is, so i'm one that does look at the pedigree of a stallion but that doesn't mean i alway's go that way. More often than not these day's i might like a stallion but i never send the mare there as you have to try and pick a stallion that buyer's want progeny from and then again that doesn't seem to work for me either Lmao.

From a breeding to sell point of view, I would not go closer than 3x3, although for an experiment i might consider a 2x3.

There was a very nice horse, Duneside Perch in the US a couple of years ago which was bred 2x3 to Cam Fella I believe

[triplev123]

Hi Triple

Thanks for the insight and that's what i was looking for people to give example's to give me an idea as how successfull it has been and how many time's it has been tried. The reason i brought this topic up is i was told never to go any closer than 3x3 so i was looking to see other's thought's and idea's. When looking at a stallion for a mare i alway's look at race track performance, conformation and i look at how strong the family is, so i'm one that does look at the pedigree of a stallion but that doesn't mean i alway's go that way. More often than not these day's i might like a stallion but i never send the mare there as you have to try and pick a stallion that buyer's want progeny from and then again that doesn't seem to work for me either Lmao.

G'day Mango,

In terms of it being successful or not...from what I've observed it is very in and out, there is no noticeable pattern to what will be successful and what will not.
Over the years there have been particular examples of what I'd term as really close line-breeding & moreso of inbreeding in mares that didn't go on to do a whole lot on the track but then became good & sometimes outstanding producers.
The best, most extensive and to my knowledge most recent examples of multiple returns to a particular maternal family occurred with Kentuckiana a few years back now when they offered a swag of yearlings in Lexington that had multiple maternal crosses via sire & dam to Golden Miss....something along the lines of Tell All...in fact I think he may well have resulted from that same batch and if not then certainly from that same general ethos. Kentuckiana did quite a bit of it with Real Desire & Grinfromeartoear returned to their own maternal lines, in some instances there were 3 and 1 had 4 crosses within 5 or 6 generations. I'm pretty sure Brittany did something similar with the family K Nora, breeding Western Ideal over his own maternal line to produce the likes of American Ideal & so on and I'm pretty sure there were a few that had Western Ideal over a Life Sign mare that had been produced as a result of Life Sign being bred over that same maternal line...effectively giving 3 crosses to K Nora.
Given the number of times it was tried and that it was tried with different representatives of the damline on both the sire's and the dam's sides...I kind of wonder how much water it really holds...especially so given that, in the case of Golden Miss, she was just such an outstanding taproot mare. I don't think it can hurt but I don't think it's any magic bullet, certainly not a reliable one anyway. The Lexington sale that I'm thinking of...there must have been 30 or 40 yearlings offered that year showing variations on that same theme. To my knowledge Tell All was the only big splasher to result.

[mango]

Hey Triple

I see a lot of people who own Panorama mare's are sending them to Grinfromeartoear to get the double up of Blue Horizon and a couple of crosses to Breath O Spring not sure how good it's worked so far. I've been told about Golden Miss and if your mare has her in her pedigree to try and match it with a stallion in his but how far would that go back a fair way i'd say. I had a Tesio done on one of my mare's out of curiousity and my mare's 6th dam was a mare called The Old Maid so they done the match and it wasn't to bad of a stallion but i didn't go that way, it was more out of curiousity than anything.

Hi Mightymo

If you come across Duneside Perch's breeding can you let me no and thanks for your input.

[triplev123]

G'day Mango,

Duneside Perch was by Cam's Card Shark from Duck Duck Goose by Goalie Jeff.

[triplev123]

We've got a filly that's (not intentionally) bred family over family, tracing to Miss Pluto Scott, the dam of Golden Miss, on both the sire's damline and the dam's damline. I think Miss Pluto Scott appears as the 5th & 6th or 6th & 7th dam respectively. She's a cracking type, good sized, powerful, athletic & so light on her feet and I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect big things of her in the future...but I would be very reticent to assign anything that she does in the future to her pedigree alone. I just think 6 or 7 generations is too far back for any mare to have any kind of overt influence.

[mango]

Hi Triple

Thanks for the info (Duneside Perch) yeah i don't look that far back either and the reason for me starting this thread was to see other people's idea's what's worked what hasn't and what they like to see in a pedigree or don't like to see but it seem's there's not to many willing to give there thought's on this one which is a pitty.

[Greg Hando]

Hi Winston

Yeah i can understand where i wrote it down wrong, Western Ideal is the father of Lisconnie and American Ideal.

No worries i just thought i was going mad

[triplev123]

Trust your gut instinct Mango. Bugger what anyone else thinks. Zig when others Zag.