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Thread: Why are stewards penalties so weak?

  1. #41
    Member Yearling cyclone george will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by teecee View Post
    This forum is for members 18 years and older to express their views on ISSUES relating to HARNESS RACING in a MATURE and Thoughtful manner. To refresh your memory of how this works if you personally feel the need of a refresher I suggest you go back and read the thread on improving Harness Racing in Australia.
    Some of the latest views I have read here especially in this thread I believe are not consistent with this. Please read what you post in the perspective of the reader before you submit it and ensure it represents a mature view of the ISSUE and respects the reader.

    Recent comments referring to others' opinions directly and avoiding the discussion here are pretty close to the edge of where this thread could regrettably be closed.
    Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    Could be Tony Abbot and only answers them V __ E __ R __ Y .................... S __ L __ O __ W __ L __ Y
    I can't comment on this post because I've never been a politician

  2. #42
    Senior Member 3YO barney will become famous soon enough
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    My only comment is 6 months seems very light for a 2nd offence if they want to clean up the sports image.

  3. #43
    Banned Weanling 3 back the fence will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclone george View Post
    Penalties are not strong enough you reckon . You will not find a bigger anti drugs advocate then me, but under your system dean Braun gets 5 years for bute ,which has a cut of period of 5 days. Nsw vets and lab,deans vet all gave evidence that the levels found in it horse's system was administered at least 7 days before,but he still got 6 months ,under your system he gets 5 years. Just before everyone shoots me down here who hasn't had a horse that hasn't been treated with bute 7 days from a race.
    Why didnt Lance Justice get suspended for using a substance when Smoken up won in NZ????

  4. #44
    Member Filly allanjg will become famous soon enough
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    just read the penalty report on dean braun...when in the hell are these racing authorities going to get tough on these cheats...brauns second affence and a lousy six months...its no wonder that TAB turnover has dropped on harness racing in victoria when the average punter is not trying to pick the best horse in the race ,but which trainer has the best dope...i have noted that 31 swabs were taken at melton last week and i would like to know just how many of these swabs actually get tested,and just how long does it take before the selected tests take place...feel sorry for the honest owner-trainers putting all their money and effort into the sport just to have to come up against the cheats.....

  5. #45
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Mighty Atom will become famous soon enough Mighty Atom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Hando View Post
    And me as well Dan if the horse needs a pain killer he shouldn't be racing.
    Hi Greg, many years ago I was given a reasonable type of horse to train but was told it couldn't race without bute. Given that bute back then was generally used in a 144 hr time frame I presume it was administered straight after it raced or next day for it to be safe to race the following week. I wasn't prepared to race the horse on bute thinking there may be a residue in its system. Back then only winners of races were swabbed and I doubt if they were all tested especially if a horse had previously been analysed and was clear. Gave the horse one start without bute and next day it was a virtual cripple. Agree with you and Dan: if a horse needs Phenylbutazone to this extent it should not be racing, for less traumatic conditions ok.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Mighty Atom will become famous soon enough Mighty Atom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allanjg View Post
    just read the penalty report on dean braun...when in the hell are these racing authorities going to get tough on these cheats...brauns second affence and a lousy six months...its no wonder that TAB turnover has dropped on harness racing in victoria when the average punter is not trying to pick the best horse in the race ,but which trainer has the best dope...i have noted that 31 swabs were taken at melton last week and i would like to know just how many of these swabs actually get tested,and just how long does it take before the selected tests take place...feel sorry for the honest owner-trainers putting all their money and effort into the sport just to have to come up against the cheats.....
    Hi Allan,
    I get the perception that the racing authorities appear to be looking after the big names in harness racing and the small hobby owner/ trainers are not in their interest. Harking back to previous times there was a push over here in the west to only have the big name professional trainers in the city, it was a ridiculous notion and was dismissed but I've always suspected that was their mindset - look after the big names. Harness racing is not an honest playing field and never has been and I do agree with you that Dean Braun's six months for a second offence is ludicrous and is doing harness racing a great injustice. I don't necessarily believe that the punters care that much because if they sense a certain advantage coming from a particular trainer they'll back their horses but it does have a deleterious affect on the honest battler.

  7. #47
    Senior Member 3YO Mitch will become famous soon enough Mitch's Avatar
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    I'll probably get berated for saying this but I am going to anyway.

    In regards to the Dean Braun case I think many on this site are missing the point. There has to be some common sense applied to issuing penalties and in this case I believe that has happened. From my understanding of the facts and on the balance of probabilities its looks to be a genuine case of mistreatment, not a deliberate act to cheat. Based on that I am comfortable with the penalty given, I also think in cases like this a large fine and no suspension would have been sufficient. Giving him 12 months or longer would be ridiculous.

    Dare I say it but I think Dean is one of those trainers that some point fingers at simply because he has a great strike rate. People forget that he pays huge money for a large majority of his horses from NZ. From what I have seen he runs a very professional operation and quite simply his good strike may just be the fact that some people are better at training horses than others.

    Let me be clear in saying I don't condone cheating at all. In the case of Dean Braun I don't believe he was trying to cheat. Let me also be clear in saying I don't know Dean Braun and have no affiliation with him whatsoever.

    In regards to horses being treated with bute and similar NSAIDs, managing the condition of any high performance human or equine athlete will at times require the help of certain medication/supplements. Provided this medication is administered by a vet or based on the recommendation of a vet I have no issues with it. Every horse I have owned has been treated with bute at some point. I also respect the opinion of Dan and Greg that they choose not to use said substances which is totally their choice as trainers.

  8. #48
    Member Yearling cyclone george will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
    I'll probably get berated for saying this but I am going to anyway.

    In regards to the Dean Braun case I think many on this site are missing the point. There has to be some common sense applied to issuing penalties and in this case I believe that has happened. From my understanding of the facts and on the balance of probabilities its looks to be a genuine case of mistreatment, not a deliberate act to cheat. Based on that I am comfortable with the penalty given, I also think in cases like this a large fine and no suspension would have been sufficient. Giving him 12 months or longer would be ridiculous.

    Dare I say it but I think Dean is one of those trainers that some point fingers at simply because he has a great strike rate. People forget that he pays huge money for a large majority of his horses from NZ. From what I have seen he runs a very professional operation and quite simply his good strike may just be the fact that some people are better at training horses than others.

    Let me be clear in saying I don't condone cheating at all. In the case of Dean Braun I don't believe he was trying to cheat. Let me also be clear in saying I don't know Dean Braun and have no affiliation with him whatsoever.

    In regards to horses being treated with bute and similar NSAIDs, managing the condition of any high performance human or equine athlete will at times require the help of certain medication/supplements. Provided this medication is administered by a vet or based on the recommendation of a vet I have no issues with it. Every horse I have owned has been treated with bute at some point. I also respect the opinion of Dan and Greg that they choose not to use said substances which is totally their choice as trainers.

    Mitch you couldn't have said it better. I don't know dean that well , but his business model for harness racing is spot on. For all the success he has he never allows more than 20 horses in the stable,pays his staff well,buy well bred horses and I believe will not buy a horse out of nz without driving it first,spends big money on horses a what I've heard attention to detail is second to none. In Victoria the stable horses of deans,John justice Gary Quinlan and a few others look magnificent and have one thing in common ,these stables have very good strike rates. For all the people on this site applauding Quiny, if memory serves me correctly ( I'm not sure) but didn't one of the boy halls get busted with epo

  9. #49
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    Very funny thing today re ITMQ,
    looked at TAB on my phone to see what time his race was, looked at the comment regards his chances in the race, from memory it said words to the effect of...
    "worth consideration!!!!!!!"
    Who could possibly have actually typed that into a computer somewhere?

  10. #50
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch View Post
    I'll probably get berated for saying this but I am going to anyway.

    In regards to the Dean Braun case I think many on this site are missing the point. There has to be some common sense applied to issuing penalties and in this case I believe that has happened. From my understanding of the facts and on the balance of probabilities its looks to be a genuine case of mistreatment, not a deliberate act to cheat. Based on that I am comfortable with the penalty given, I also think in cases like this a large fine and no suspension would have been sufficient. Giving him 12 months or longer would be ridiculous.

    Dare I say it but I think Dean is one of those trainers that some point fingers at simply because he has a great strike rate. People forget that he pays huge money for a large majority of his horses from NZ. From what I have seen he runs a very professional operation and quite simply his good strike may just be the fact that some people are better at training horses than others.

    Let me be clear in saying I don't condone cheating at all. In the case of Dean Braun I don't believe he was trying to cheat. Let me also be clear in saying I don't know Dean Braun and have no affiliation with him whatsoever.

    In regards to horses being treated with bute and similar NSAIDs, managing the condition of any high performance human or equine athlete will at times require the help of certain medication/supplements. Provided this medication is administered by a vet or based on the recommendation of a vet I have no issues with it. Every horse I have owned has been treated with bute at some point. I also respect the opinion of Dan and Greg that they choose not to use said substances which is totally their choice as trainers.
    You make some valid points Mitch especially the fact that he only has good horses in his stable - this should have been the basis of your argument NOT the emboldened part, as there really is a bevy of very knowledgeable trainers out there - some of the older ones that are returning as more or less hobby trainers have 40+yrs of knowledge (and were often top 10 trainers in their hey day)
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

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