Standardbred Breeding and Utilization Report What is the future of our industry/sport

[Messenger]

Integrity is definitely a critical factor in the future prosperity of harness racing.

The other major conundrum that administrators face is the hobbyist element of the sport. Many say it is (hobbyist) critical to the development and fabric of the sport, but it is also a large reason why punters steer clear due to the unpredictability of investing your money on a horse trained and/or driven by a 'part timer'. I see both sides of the fence and it's something I personally find hard to balance and rationalise in my own mind. My grandfather is a hobbyist and harness racing has been a massive part of his life for 50 years, yet as someone who loves to bet I rarely bet on a harness race, except for feature meetings, due to the unpredictability of horse & driver form.

I also feel that integrity and 'hobbyists' are extricably linked in many ways as well. Not as much from a prohibited substances usage perspective but more so from a racing perspective.

If increasing awareness, attendance & interest is critical to the future prosperity of the sport and harness racing is competing for a bigger slice of the wagering pie that is dominated by other sports which are extremely professional in their nature, then I keep coming back to the role of the hobbyist vs the professional.

I know this is a controversial and emotional topic but what do others think?

I will try and keep 'on thread' as I fear this may be more a topic for a separate thread
If we are to be customer focussed we must listen to their concerns but if you read the report that this thread is about it addresses the fact that the customers need horses to bet on
I see owners as customers too really
Don't you think that the 'awareness, attendance & interest' that you list as critical is fostered my country towns all around the country having locals involved. Don't most of the big pros start off as small hics even in the gallopers. The next pro like Cramp or Weir can come from anywhere. I really fear we have too many eggs in the Melton and Menangle baskets because if we think centralization is the answer well they are not even Melbourne and Sydney suburbs. Do you think they are the answer Mitch?

If you read either of Ray Chaplin's reports that I have linked on this and other threads you will see it is a much bigger problem than the punting dollar. My thread from a couple of months back about how we get more of the punting $ ended up showing that (I believe) and if you read some of the post by Danno and co. I think it answers your pro v hobbyist question too Mitch

[Mitch]

Kev,

Please don't think I am proposing this conundrum because I want to get rid of hobbyists,that's not my intent. In fact I am quite the opposite of that.

What I am keen to discuss further, be it in this thread or a separate one, is the role of the hobbyist and the role of the professional so that attendance, participation and interest can be increased with the overall outcome being that more money is wagered on harness racing.

I don't have the answer for how to do this, I have some ideas and I'm sure others do as well hence the reason for raising it.

At the moment I don't think enough is being done to leverage either.

[trish]

I had a conversation yesterday with a few others , one professional, two hobbyist's & we all agreed that we are sick of the cheats first & formost. I know I harp on about it , but when we work our horses at the track or meet people at the shops , that's what EVERYONE talks about and hates . The honest people have become cannon fodder . If you get rid of the hobbyist , harness racing will go down quicker than the Titanic and they are being driven out faster than an EH with triple Webbers , I can count on one hand the professionals in the Hunter Valley. It's always been a hobbyist based sport . As a breeder we all breed with the hope and intention of breeding that next top horse , but why would you bother when you know that you have no hope because your honest . Professionalism starts at the top . Have you seen the way owners and breeders are treated at the gallops ?

[jackthepunter]

I will try and keep 'on thread' as I fear this may be more a topic for a separate thread
If we are to be customer focussed we must listen to their concerns but if you read the report that this thread is about it addresses the fact that the customers need horses to bet on
I see owners as customers too really
Don't you think that the 'awareness, attendance & interest' that you list as critical is fostered my country towns all around the country having locals involved. Don't most of the big pros start off as small hics even in the gallopers. The next pro like Cramp or Weir can come from anywhere. I really fear we have too many eggs in the Melton and Menangle baskets because if we think centralization is the answer well they are not even Melbourne and Sydney suburbs. Do you think they are the answer Mitch?

If you read either of Ray Chaplin's reports that I have linked on this and other threads you will see it is a much bigger problem than the punting dollar. My thread from a couple of months back about how we get more of the punting $ ended up showing that (I believe) and if you read some of the post by Danno and co. I think it answers your pro v hobbyist question too Mitch

that's what I was on about in my previous post Kev about closing all those country tracks and the affect its now having years later

[trish]

Your spot on Jack . I was giving this topic a lot of thought and came up with the conclusion that Professionals have no option but to stay and try and grow in this sport ,that's their job , while the hobbyist , who outnumbers the professional , can pull up stumps at any time and wave goodbye . The hobbyist is the one you have to try and entice back . unfortunately the focus is all about the pro's .

[trish]

Does anyone know how many applications have been forwarded for stables at Menangle's proposed training facility ????????

[Mitch]

Trish, I am 100% aligned with you regarding integrity! it must underpin everything in the sport.

Further, I think having a high quality, competitive and integral professional component is the key to growing the hobbyist and grass roots aspect of harness racing. If harness racing had a really strong professional element to the sport which attracted strong wagering investment this would give the sport the necessary resources to develop the grass roots element of the sport and sustain the hobbyist core.

Look at the AFL. Without a successful premier, professional competition the resources would not be there to do all of the development that happens at grass roots and amateur level. The VFL became the AFL because for the sport to prosper and grow that was the necessary evolution required. At time it created a lot controversy and the evolution of the AFL continuously creates controversy but look at how successful it has become. Harness racing hasn't evolved not nearly quickly enough and that's why it's in the situation it is. Too many people are too comfortable with the status quo or not willing to make the hard decisions.

To get this right it may mean we have to go backwards before be go forwards in certain areas, but without a high quality professional component to our sport we are on borrowed time.

And I repeat I want the hobbyist element to be as strong as everyone else does forever!

[jackthepunter]

Trish, I am 100% aligned with you regarding integrity! it must underpin everything in the sport.

Further, I think having a high quality, competitive and integral professional component is the key to growing the hobbyist and grass roots aspect of harness racing. If harness racing had a really strong professional element to the sport which attracted strong wagering investment this would give the sport the necessary resources to develop the grass roots element of the sport and sustain the hobbyist core.

Look at the AFL. Without a successful premier, professional competition the resources would not be there to do all of the development that happens at grass roots and amateur level. The VFL became the AFL because for the sport to prosper and grow that was the necessary evolution required. At time it created a lot controversy and the evolution of the AFL continuously creates controversy but look at how successful it has become. Harness racing hasn't evolved not nearly quickly enough and that's why it's in the situation it is. Too many people are too comfortable with the status quo or not willing to make the hard decisions.

To get this right it may mean we have to go backwards before be go forwards in certain areas, but without a high quality professional component to our sport we are on borrowed time.

And I repeat I want the hobbyist element to be as strong as everyone else does forever!

this is why i get so angrey at some ceo's and boards because it though thier miss management of money and understanding of what the participants want and need thats killing the sport. if you want more professionals and more owners to buy more horses and bred better ones it all comes down to money. these people in charge need to move heaven and earth and find a way for a massive increase in base prize money,because thats where 99% of horses race. ill give you a hot tip
no ones making any money when u win a race at get 3000 prizemoney it doesnt even cover what it cost to get that horse to the races for that prep.

[trish]

Hi Mitch . All I know , for sure , is that if everyone that I know thought that they were competing on a level playing field they would stay and most would expand their interest in harness racing . Simple truth

[Mister JayKO]

I am realistically no longer involved aside as a casual punter, many reasons but ultimately integrity is the main issue. Ray Chaplin is a fine man but this work is not a new concept, wastage has been big factor in standardbred breeding for many years but bottom line - the returns on breeding a foal just aren't there. I once sat on a Committee with Ray many moons ago but he has been beating his head against a brick wall for many, many years and as others gave pointed out the politics and self interest will ensure that it never gets resolved.

The hobbyist v professional debate is secondary in my opinion, the major factor IMO that turns off the high rolling owner is integrity. Recently I attended a footy club reunion where I came across a former high profile owner. Neither of us are now actively involved, but he was on a much bigger scale than I ever was. I probed him as to why and ultimately it came down too many negative experiences most involving drugs and shady deals, this guy spent big money and had involvement with high profile and less than honourable stables but ultimately it was no longer fun and so he stopped spending big at the sales and now has no involvement.

The sport is virtually invisible in the mainstream media and that position is irretrievable. Look at all the racing journos that are now spruikers for the tab?

If going to the track is no longer what it was, how do you turn that around? The only way you can is actually go back to the past and re engage with the grass roots hobbyists and try and build it from the bottom again and make sure that the base is solid. A house built on faulty foundations is sure to fall.