Concurrent OR Cumulative

[Messenger]

We need a Hall of Shame as well as a Hall of Fame.
Where does one find a historical list of suspensions
When making breeding decisions one needs to know if a family's star horse was a great pedigree or great 'gear'

I would start such a thread but it would have to be 100% accurate and even then our forum's administration would still be entitled to close it down

My degree of dedication to the sport has waxed and waned over 45yrs but it still sticks with me from long ago that there was a great American trainer of 2yo's who used to move his stable on at the end of each season because "I don't want to compete with the chemists". It was his thinking that said chemists could have less advantage at this age unless they were bloody good horsemen too

[trish]

I heard a race caller welcome back a cheat recently & how great it was to see him winning..........that made my stomach turn, for the love of god guys they are the scum of the earth, its stinks they even get their licence back , let alone welcome them back publicly, they are filth, and because of them in the not to distant future, race callers won't have a job because of them. But they are laughing at all the honest folk all the way to the bank. Its so obvious who is cheating. You don't have to look that far.
We have a couple of nice horses out the back paddock & we were asked the other day why weren't they in work, all we could say was why bother, we will only bust them chasing the cheats.

[trish]

Most people are on the same page here. Look back over time of the stables that "dominated" for a period, many have more than question marks against them - positive swabs or not. My view is that administrators take the view that if they were ever able to get ahead of the game just once, they wouldn't go through with it - the damage they fear would be too great. I would counter that the damage being done at the moment will continue to erode the industry, the people that actually make it tick will walk away. The gentleman who taught me virtually everything I know about the sport and let me drive his horses at every opportunity is now a broken man and disillusioned with the sport. He's tasted the highs, but now mostly the lows. A man who despises drug cheats has over recent times lost a few north - where the horses have turned into lear jets. I know the horses well - but the ones racing now are not the same ones that he had. Somewhere in a thread I heard "Indian Herbs" mentioned - must be the new name, bottom line, whether it's EPO, Blue Magic, Aranesp, Cresp, Milkshakes, Cobalt and now Ice, (they are only the ones I am aware of in my lifetime) the chemists will always be ahead of the game. I am very cynical with regard to the current "dominators" that if I drew up a family tree of stables that I suspect aren't all 100% legit - in each case I can trace strong links back to the good old USA and if you follow my lead that we tend to lag 6-12 months or more behind them just check out where the sport is headed there.

Excellent post Stu, it would seem as though you have read my thoughts. Well said.

[trish]

Should we be thinking a bit wider with the fight against dopers?
I think so,some sports are now having "blood passports" where the swab is actually taken at a time when it is unlikely that the gear is being used.The blood profile subsequently gained then becomes the bench mark and if a subsequent swab shows a deviation from that norm it is incumbent on the "swabee" to explain what caused the deviation
Moves the onus of proof to where it should be. Discuss.

Great thinking Ron, I wonder weather it would be possible to come up with a maximum level for a red blood cell count, like they have with bi-card & cobalt.

[trish]

Hi Trish,
What I meant (and I'm probably being cynical) that if any major doping scandal arose it may not even see the light of day because harness racing authorities know it would be the end as far as the betting public are concerned. I found this out on a personal level training horses in the 80's all the honest trainers knew that we were not competing against the major stables on a level playing field but there was absolutely nothing we could do about it. It may be an overstatement, but I'm not so sure.

No worries Rod . I think the big difference now is that the existence of harness racing depends on it . If they sit on their hands they'll end up as security guards at the gallops

[Mister JayKO]

I heard a race caller welcome back a cheat recently & how great it was to see him winning..........that made my stomach turn, for the love of god guys they are the scum of the earth, its stinks they even get their licence back , let alone welcome them back publicly, they are filth, and because of them in the not to distant future, race callers won't have a job because of them. But they are laughing at all the honest folk all the way to the bank. Its so obvious who is cheating. You don't have to look that far.
We have a couple of nice horses out the back paddock & we were asked the other day why weren't they in work, all we could say was why bother, we will only bust them chasing the cheats.

The trainer who recently got a significant spell from stewards in sa for meth returned from a similar spell some years ago. At one stage he used to drive in races and it was seriously scary stuff, he walked into the betting ring at Terang with a wad of cash ready to unload on his latest charge, the local bookie (remember them) said to him how long you back for this time "don't know" was the response.

[Mister JayKO]

We need a Hall of Shame as well as a Hall of Fame.
Where does one find a historical list of suspensions
When making breeding decisions one needs to know if a family's star horse was a great pedigree or great 'gear'

I would start such a thread but it would have to be 100% accurate and even then our forum's administration would still be entitled to close it down

My degree of dedication to the sport has waxed and waned over 45yrs but it still sticks with me from long ago that there was a great American trainer of 2yo's who used to move his stable on at the end of each season because "I don't want to compete with the chemists". It was his thinking that said chemists could have less advantage at this age unless they were bloody good horsemen too

Go back to the failed stallions from the us and usually you find he was trained by a chemist.

[teecee]

While people will go on about cheats and cheating there is neither a desire nor ability to prove beyond the reasonable doubt that actually cheating is taking place. when these things have been going on since year dot in the history of Harness racing both in your country and mine. I'm sure your father and grandfather like mine could relay a few good stories on the topic from their era yet Harness racing continues to this day. How then is integrity or lack of it the doomsday scenario I read about in this thread and others similar from mainly the same contributors?

[trish]

While people will go on about cheats and cheating there is neither a desire nor ability to prove beyond the reasonable doubt that actually cheating is taking place. when these things have been going on since year dot in the history of Harness racing both in your country and mine. I'm sure your father and grandfather like mine could relay a few good stories on the topic from their era yet Harness racing continues to this day. How then is integrity or lack of it the doomsday scenario I read about in this thread and others similar from mainly the same contributors?

Hi Tony, the fact that there have been over 60 positive swabs in NSW alone over the last couple of years is a pretty good indication that some people may be cheating.
Wotta ya reckon!
The doomsday scenario has been predicted by experts. Facts are facts. The industry is melting away.
You look at the figures & tell me nothing is wrong.

[Messenger]

Trish we are undoubtedly in challenging times but as Tony points out - we have always had cheats. We have lived with the nickname the Red Hots for decades. Whether we come out stronger or weaker I am unsure but I liken it to the sharemarket where for every expert predicting boom there is an expert predicting bust