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Thread: Sprint lane debate once and for all!!!!

  1. #141
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Form Student View Post
    If as you say, they don't make any difference.....why have them?......so punters who back these runners feel they are getting a fair go? You don't seem to have any response for the runners that come wide (travelling extra distance....which you agree is the case in reality) regarding their chance of catching the leaders, and then a free run to a sprint lane runner......I know the answer........tough luck!

    YOUR QUOTE: "IMPORTANTLY, PUNTERS saw their horse get out and HAVE A CHANCE!!! So what do you have to say about the other runners, providing a free benefit to a runner that has already had a bludge run??? Isn't that important?" Hard luck stories in races are plentiful, so you help one runner with the SL, what about the rest! Like any other runner you take your chance on getting a run!! It's really simple, keep racing as natural as it can be.........let circumstances sort themselves out!
    Steve.
    Please show me where i have said, "they don't make any difference"

    I have never said that.
    Of course they make a difference.

    I have tried to show you and others, they are not as evil as you think.

    MY POINT IS, they can have a POSITIVE effect when for example a FAV (or any horse) is "locked away" and wouldn't get a chance, but then a SL lets him out, and Steve, the damn horse NEVER ALWAYS WINS WHEN HE GETS THAT SL run mate!!!!!!! This is my point. You carry on like every race a SL is used that horse wins- IT DOES NOT ALWAYS WIN STEVEN!

    And based on your "You don't seem to have any response for the runners that come wide", i thought that the "you won't be happy till all trots races are run in a straight line" idea may have fixed that up, obviously not.
    i can tell you that in my last post i had actually written something which i then chose to delete as it may have come across as a smart a** comment/question.
    It basically questions how long you have been watching the trots?
    Have you not noticed that since day dot, trots in Australia have been raced on a round/oval shaped track?
    Have you not noticed that 100 years BEFORE SL existed that it has been SO UNFAIR that horses on the rails/pegs COVER LESS GROUND?
    So whats new about horses on the pegs covering less ground, mate this has happened since forever, have you never realised this before?
    Have you not noticed that sometimes with NO SL a leader CAN drift up the track and that in 1952, before 1952 and after 1952, I'm sure this happened lots of times where the horse with the sit came up the inside and won?
    Whats new here Steve? Nothin.
    Horses have "been coming wide" since day dot steve. SL or no SL...
    Thats OUR SPORT
    Thats OUR TRACKS
    And every owner trainer driver punter knows that barriers determine what kind of run you get, and depending on where you draw depends on how much ground you may need to cover on the little bloody circle they run around!
    So driver skill, horse ability, fitness and luck can play a part to how you go on the day, but you know what, every horse gets another chance.
    You may get a crap draw today, have to do too much work like any horse since 1952, and next start you may get barrier 2, get a cost run and get in the money.
    Swings and roundabouts.
    Its not as if 1 race determines that horses career.

  2. #142
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    But you would have to admit Ash - that the driving tactics of tonight's Gp 1 race totally evolved around the existence of a sprint lane. Like I said earlier - there will almost have to be a distinction of before and after sprint lanes in how we view the history of the sport
    No doubt Kev.

    And wasn't it exciting to see if the Tank could do it?
    Wasn't it building great tension during the first half lap to see if FAR got the lead, and then would he hand up if Avon came knocking?
    Wasn't it building the tension to see what will happen when the hot Fav and the Tank would then go head to head down the straight?
    Who will win?
    Will Avon hang on and continue to dominate Qld racing and build his ever growing status as a Grand Circuit horse?
    Will the Tank improve on his run of last week and show us his fitness has certainly improved and that he will again be a strong force on the Grand Circuit?
    To me all of the above was great.
    It was a race of tactics, cat and mouse, would Avon play into the hands of the confident Luke McC?
    Yes he did,
    2 great horses duelling, was a great finish

  3. #143
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year The Form Student will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maorisidol View Post
    Steve.

    It basically questions how long you have been watching the trots?
    .
    I have been going to the trots full-time since 1972, at age 15 years..........I used to catch the free bus from Fairfield Station up Hamilton Rd to the track........I used to ask someone going in to the track if they would pretend I was their son, so I could get in for free, I also used to catch the train to Campbelltown Station in my school holidays, and get the free bus to the track...........I saw Lou Cini, drive a trotter called "Midway Orrison" to victory by the length of the straight on my first adventure!..........I went to every meeting, trials and Ghymkhana's, 7 days a week, plus watch videos of meetings over and over again! The first thing I learn't about punting was how to lose......then to turn that into how to win............after a meeting, on the next day go back and watch replays to see what went right and wrong!

    I will return to reply to your submission.....but for now I am in EUPHORIA over the "absolutely brilliant" drive by Brett Hutchings at Menangle (NO SPRINT LANE) just then.........did you watch him??....the skill put shivers up my spine!.......he led, the only danger was on his back, did he kick away and let "the only danger he had out"......no way brother!.......it puts intrigue into a race, not give-away runs...........absolute PERFECTION!!!!! Good on you Brett!!!

  4. #144
    Super Moderator Horse Of The Year teecee has a spectacular aura about teecee's Avatar
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    Im takin my bat and ball and goin home, boo hoo!
    It basically questions how long you have been watching the trots?


    The above two quotes among others that are creeping into this generally very good discussion bring no credit to the discussion nor those who post them.
    They are not relevant to any discussions on this forum nor peoples opinions on various topics.
    please keep your posts relevant to the discussion in an objective manner. They are not to become personal slanging matches between two parties with differing views.
    please respect others' views even when they differ from your own.
    If this thread continues to head down the path it has recently started on the discussion may unfortunately end.
    Thank you

  5. #145
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year The Form Student will become famous soon enough
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    ""MY POINT IS, they can have a POSITIVE effect when for example a FAV (or any horse) is "locked away" and wouldn't get a chance, but then a SL lets him out, and Steve, the damn horse NEVER ALWAYS WINS WHEN HE GETS THAT SL run mate!!!!!!! This is my point. You carry on like every race a SL is used that horse wins- IT DOES NOT ALWAYS WIN STEVEN!

    If a favourite gets locked away, or any runner for that point........Who cares that's racing!......My point is that a horse starts in a race, and whether it get's the run it desires or not is played out during that race.....if you are 2F or 3F where there is a SL, you get a "lay down misere run" up the straight......it is not fair, because during that races certain things happen which are part & parcel contributors to the final crescendo of the pending result.......to have a SL in operation you have thrown this all away to allow the SL runners a free pass! To have an uncorrupted finish is paramount to the integrity of the race and the sport! If those runners on the fence get a run inside or outside, that's racing to!

    And then you say, the SL runners don't always win!...........I am totally aware of that....I have watched a few races in my time! Your earlier stats show the SL is of little consequence........WELL WHY DO WE NEED IT?.......Let there be natural and pure racing on the track that is used for the entire race, without providing a benefit for the minority!

    And based on your "You don't seem to have any response for the runners that come wide", i thought that the "you won't be happy till all trots races are run in a straight line" idea may have fixed that up, obviously not.

    I have not said that in any shape or form, that is purely an infantile computation of the point being made......If I am a runner in a race doing work or making my run wider on the track around a turn....covering extra distance!.......DO you think it is fair that someone gets a free rails run at my expense up the straight...I don't think so!
    If you want to take the bizarre and eccentric approach.......why doesn't the 3F runner get to go down to the SL say 50 metres before the 2F runner.....wouldn't that be somewhat fairer??.........And then to compensate the runners out wide have the finishing line angled back towards the outside fence, say 15%, making it shorter for them up the straight because they have travelled a further distance...........It has to be fair for all!

    i can tell you that in my last post i had actually written something which i then chose to delete as it may have come across as a smart a** comment/question.""

    I am quite happy to hear whatever comment you wish to make........

  6. #146
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    So i have added to the races i watched previously.
    i added all Globe derby and Melton from FRI nite.

    We now have
    28 races watched.
    19 times the SL had ZERO EFFECT on the outcome of the race, thats about 68% it has ZERO.
    4 Horses USL for 2nd. 2 were Favs did not win. So thats about 14% of races that the SL was used but the user still did not win
    2 WINS to SL, thats a massive 7%

  7. #147
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    Can anyone delve into history and give actual evidence or ideas on when SL's were ever conceived in Australia?
    And more to the point why?
    What brought about someone to think up the concept of a SL?
    Where did it come from?
    Why did it evolve as a possibility?
    What caused it?

    I can only imagine it came from someone or some push from some sector wanting change.
    Was this change as a call to appeal to those who considered that the trots had the "perception" of too many horses not "getting a run".
    Only 3-4 years ago i was talking to a Gallops trainer (who had a runner Cox Plate day yesterday) and he was certainly of that opinion. This is/was a perception that many have or have had of the trots over the last 30 years or even more, and i can only imagine this is at least one reason to bring in the SL.
    Obviously in an attempt to try increase turnover.

  8. #148
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year The Form Student will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maorisidol View Post
    So i have added to the races i watched previously.
    i added all Globe derby and Melton from FRI nite.

    We now have
    28 races watched.
    19 times the SL had ZERO EFFECT on the outcome of the race, thats about 68% it has ZERO.
    4 Horses USL for 2nd. 2 were Favs did not win. So thats about 14% of races that the SL was used but the user still did not win
    2 WINS to SL, thats a massive 7%
    They are very interesting stats!..........it now seems that a SL is therefore not required, the perception by punters of their horse not getting a run, and being held up, is an urban myth!

    No sprint lane at Albion Park may have produced a different winner last night, cool calculating Luke, may have had to make a decision to hold lead, and for Avonnova to then sit parked......who wins, I don't know! No sprint lane, does FAR get out in time to win, who knows, I don't! The tactics employed, did not allow for an out and out war of attrition to eventuate!

  9. #149
    Senior Member 4YO brent_L will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Form Student View Post
    No sprint lane at Albion Park may have produced a different winner last night, cool calculating Luke, may have had to make a decision to hold lead, and for Avonnova to then sit parked......who wins, I don't know! No sprint lane, does FAR get out in time to win, who knows, I don't! The tactics employed, did not allow for an out and out war of attrition to eventuate!
    You are of course correct about there perhaps being a different winner of the QPC without the sprint lane, but IMO way off in how the race would have played out & what Luke would have had to do in it without that very SL......the reason he risked using up FAR early was because he knew there was a fantastic chance he lands on the back of the fav.....without SL scenario, there is no doubt he looks for a position in the running line and tries to dive bomb late. Basically what I'm getting at is all racing is not generic and tactics (sometimes risky) are definitely involved when trying to utilise the SL.

    side note: Luke pulled their pants down AGAIN! When the field came out my speed map had him in the very position he ended up in and thought the early price of $3.40 was tight but spot on. Unfortunately I found myself listening to the interview he did pre-race stating FAR had never really shown that much early speed and it definitely sounded like the peg position wasn't an option......great dummy Luke, I certainly fell for it.

  10. #150
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year The Form Student will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent_L View Post
    You are of course correct about there perhaps being a different winner of the QPC without the sprint lane, but IMO way off in how the race would have played out & what Luke would have had to do in it without that very SL......the reason he risked using up FAR early was because he knew there was a fantastic chance he lands on the back of the fav.....without SL scenario, there is no doubt he looks for a position in the running line and tries to dive bomb late. Basically what I'm getting at is all racing is not generic and tactics (sometimes risky) are definitely involved when trying to utilise the SL.

    side note: Luke pulled their pants down AGAIN! When the field came out my speed map had him in the very position he ended up in and thought the early price of $3.40 was tight but spot on. Unfortunately I found myself listening to the interview he did pre-race stating FAR had never really shown that much early speed and it definitely sounded like the peg position wasn't an option......great dummy Luke, I certainly fell for it.
    I think "Cool Hand Luke" got a bit of a shock when he came out on equal terms with the horses drawn to his outside!........He then saw his "stablemate" was the initial leader......who was going to stop him getting the lead? If FAR had not come out as good as he did, the stablemate, Our Hi Jinx would have only been giving up the lead to Avonnova, it may have then been the winner, up the SL! Abettorpunt was a brave run......when he draws a barrier, watch out!

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