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Thread: Sprint lane debate once and for all!!!!

  1. #81
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    Glass half full?
    Glass half empty?
    To me its interesting that those who dislike the sprint lane are glass half empty people, seeing the negative perspective.
    Have any of these owners, trainers, drivers, punters been on the positive receiving end of a winning sprint lane horse? In that example have they not accepted the winners cheque because it was "unfair" or they got an "easy ride" or have they not cashed in the winning betting ticket?
    I don't think so...
    How about every owner, trainer, driver and winning punter who win cos of the sprint lane, are they happy? Hell yeah.
    We still get horses not getting a run and being held up not getting out even at Menangle, thats frustrating, i believe even at Menangle a sprint lane should even out chances cos the straight is so much longer than say Penrith or similar.
    And of course you also get examples like i quoted below in post 62 of this thread where the Fav has no chance of winning and a $42 chance leads to the home turn...

    So the $3 Fav draws 3, the 2 horse at $45 leads and Fav ends up quite ok 1 out 2 back. Just after the bell the Fav is now same but a 3 wide train has started with 2 horses in it, so now at the turn into straight, Fav is 4 back with all but 2 horses in front of him basically last, and sweet bugger alls chance of winning.
    Now if this race was at GP or Menangle, Ballarat etc, you've done your dosh, damn!
    Hang on, this race was at Port Pirie tonite, Race 3, and theres a sprint lane, who wins, the $42 leader on the small track, or do the punters celebrate cos their horse now 4 pegs got a chance?
    http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...sa#PPC22081407

    Fav wins, Fav gets a chance, that whats i want as an Owner or trainer or driver or punter, i want a chance...
    ps. and not every horse who has the sit, and the chance to outsprint the leader is ALWAYS good enough to actually win!!!
    Its not like every race is won by the sprint lane, you'd think the way some people talk about the scourge of sprint lanes and the pox of it all that EVERY race is won up the dirty alley!
    Last edited by Maorisidol; 10-22-2014 at 07:53 PM. Reason: ps.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year The Form Student will become famous soon enough
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    Glass half empty or full is not the answer, as I said we have been all on the receiving end of good and bad luck with sprint lanes!........no contest!.......My response is that you race on a particular track and configuration for the majority of the race, the position you hold at the point of the turn has been due to the circumstances of that particular race, and then you pull the rug out from under the contestants, and allow an inside run............that is not on, it does not conform to sportsmanship in any shape or form...........how many punters on the bad receiving end are going to hang around, with copping that! ......the fact that all sprint laners don't win is not testimony to keep the rule........the stewards try to keep a level playing field, so should administrators of the sport.........all runners in a race arrive at the home turn in certain positions due the circumstances of that race, then you want to change the rules and give someone a "clear run ticket"........come on it is unfair, not sportsmanlike, and UN-Australian!

  3. #83
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maorisidol View Post
    Glass half full?
    Glass half empty?
    To me its interesting that those who dislike the sprint lane are glass half empty people, seeing the negative perspective.
    Have any of these owners, trainers, drivers, punters been on the positive receiving end of a winning sprint lane horse? In that example have they not accepted the winners cheque because it was "unfair" or they got an "easy ride" or have they not cashed in the winning betting ticket?
    I don't think so...
    How about every owner, trainer, driver and winning punter who win cos of the sprint lane, are they happy? Hell yeah.
    We still get horses not getting a run and being held up not getting out even at Menangle, thats frustrating, i believe even at Menangle a sprint lane should even out chances cos the straight is so much longer than say Penrith or similar.
    And of course you also get examples like i quoted below in post 62 of this thread where the Fav has no chance of winning and a $42 chance leads to the home turn...

    So the $3 Fav draws 3, the 2 horse at $45 leads and Fav ends up quite ok 1 out 2 back. Just after the bell the Fav is now same but a 3 wide train has started with 2 horses in it, so now at the turn into straight, Fav is 4 back with all but 2 horses in front of him basically last, and sweet bugger alls chance of winning.
    Now if this race was at GP or Menangle, Ballarat etc, you've done your dosh, damn!
    Hang on, this race was at Port Pirie tonite, Race 3, and theres a sprint lane, who wins, the $42 leader on the small track, or do the punters celebrate cos their horse now 4 pegs got a chance?
    http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...sa#PPC22081407

    Fav wins, Fav gets a chance, that whats i want as an Owner or trainer or driver or punter, i want a chance...
    ps. and not every horse who has the sit, and the chance to outsprint the leader is ALWAYS good enough to actually win!!!
    Its not like every race is won by the sprint lane, you'd think the way some people talk about the scourge of sprint lanes and the pox of it all that EVERY race is won up the dirty alley!
    Your glass theory assumes there is something wrong with considering the downside of a scenario - I am sure you have a position of responsibility so do not tell me you never consider the negatives!

    The example you give is like a beautiful fairytale Ash and just as you could spin me a few more I could refer you to the Brothers Grimm

    I will give you some facts on Melton Metro meetings so far this season

    The sprint lane has won 13 of 65 races ie 20%
    The 1x2 and 1x3 have won NONE
    We seem to have a problem there - maybe we should manufacture some artificial remedy like an overpass
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  4. #84
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    Your glass theory assumes there is something wrong with considering the downside of a scenario - I am sure you have a position of responsibility so do not tell me you never consider the negatives!

    The example you give is like a beautiful fairytale Ash and just as you could spin me a few more I could refer you to the Brothers Grimm

    I will give you some facts on Melton Metro meetings so far this season

    The sprint lane has won 13 of 65 races ie 20%
    The 1x2 and 1x3 have won NONE
    We seem to have a problem there - maybe we should manufacture some artificial remedy like an overpass
    Interesting that Ash makes the glass half empty remark, I had a similar comment ready to post in the Sunday/Monday prize-money thread.
    So, what are the stats on leaders winning? And if we ignore the sprint lane winners how many more of those races did the leader finish 2nd?

  5. #85
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    discuss discuss discuss
    for against for against
    pros cons
    etc.

    Are they gonna be taken away?????????

    I think not...

  6. #86
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year The Form Student will become famous soon enough
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    You boys have come up with stats I had not considered, it makes it even more compelling.......the horse in the sit especially, and 3F have a privileged position whether they get a run or not is up to their driver, circumstances, and lady luck!.....they don't need a free excursion pass up the inside, how many race results have been tainted by the sprint lane!

    Those stats should get people thinking!

    The same applies to them as other runners in the race, when you are on the fence, you win some, and you lose some!

  7. #87
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiebreno View Post
    Interesting that Ash makes the glass half empty remark, I had a similar comment ready to post in the Sunday/Monday prize-money thread.
    So, what are the stats on leaders winning? And if we ignore the sprint lane winners how many more of those races did the leader finish 2nd?
    The glass remark is probably pretty applicable to the Sunday-Monday debate Brendan
    The leader (at the bell) has won 28 of the 65 = 43%
    and been placed another 16 times which means they are running a place or winning 67% of the time or pretty much 2 out of every 3 races which is probably what you expect.
    Best I can provide for you Brendan
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  8. #88
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Maorisidol has a spectacular aura about Maorisidol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    The glass remark is probably pretty applicable to the Sunday-Monday debate Brendan
    The leader (at the bell) has won 28 of the 65 = 43%
    and been placed another 16 times which means they are running a place or winning 67% of the time or pretty much 2 out of every 3 races which is probably what you expect.
    Best I can provide for you Brendan
    43% winning rate.
    67% win/place rate for leader, they seem pretty darn good to me without that damn cheat lane dominating!!!
    20 years ago and more, what might have these stats been pre sprint lanes?
    would that have been much different i wonder in the world of 800m and less tracks with no sprint lane?
    would it have been a greater leader bias with the leader getting the "soft" run up front? so back in these days the heat was on the leader getting the edge on the others in the race and now it can be on the sprint lane horse.
    swings and roundabouts.
    evolution.

  9. #89
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year The Form Student will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maorisidol View Post
    discuss discuss discuss
    for against for against
    pros cons
    etc.

    Are they gonna be taken away?????????

    I think not...
    Bathurst is on trial........what is the trial?.......It should be what is best for racing.........an even playing field, not a specialist rule for certain runners, at the expense of others.......on large tracks, the sprint lane should not be needed.......you can't have a cosy run with cover on the fence, and travel less distance than the running line runners, and then expect a free uninterrupted run down the straight?......Or can you? The integrity of racing is at risk, if you draw a bad barrier, you will even have less chance than before, why risk your money........prizemoney for owners is not being distributed fairly because others have an additional benefit..........When a sprint lane runner wins, they should refund the acceptance fees to the other runners as compensation for their free ride! For punters, they should pay, let's say a 3rd of the win dividend to the 2nd horse, as they were beaten by unfair means! Come on get over the sprint lane, and not fall into the poor decision made by other states!

  10. #90
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Ash, I think the big difference is that most of the time the leader has to do something to get the lead and often has to do something to hold it and he also cuts the breeze.
    The sprint lane may work to hold the 3 spot but after that he does not have to do little else but keep his fingers crossed until the straight
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

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