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Thread: Substances

  1. #11
    Super Moderator Horse Of The Year teecee has a spectacular aura about teecee's Avatar
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    Tony Cahill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia...-twelve-months

    Too light again. Definitely nothing circumstantial about this one Jack

    The one charge issued suggests there was no prohibited substance used / found to be used but rather the act (of using a stomach tube, often used legally) , within the 48hrs of racing which breaches the rules only.
    In the circumstances it may not be all that light.

  2. #12
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teecee View Post
    The one charge issued suggests there was no prohibited substance used / found to be used but rather the act (of using a stomach tube, often used legally) , within the 48hrs of racing which breaches the rules only.
    In the circumstances it may not be all that light.
    Fair enough and I know he is not guilty of presenting a horse with an excess TCO2 level but I found the disqualification of gallops trainer Mark Riley for such interesting. He was disqualified for 3 years which is the mandatory minimum - do we have a mandatory penalty like this?
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  3. #13
    Senior Member 2YO Pena will become famous soon enough
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    Kevin, not sure what your legal background is but the information to find Hillier guilty is without a doubt circumstantial.
    The definition of circumstantial is;
    "Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact."
    Mathew Neilsen was just given 12 months treating a horse on race day and he was actually observed by stewards doing so. Definitely not circumstantial.
    HRNSW used results from 2 starts one with a steward on the premises before the race and one with out. 100% circumstantial. The horse did not actually test over the limits. No real evidence. If this was in a court of law it would be thrown out, no actually it would never even get to the court as the evidence is almost laughable.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Stallion aussiebreno is just really nice aussiebreno is just really nice
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    You on some substances yourself Jack?

  5. #15
    Senior Member 2YO Pena will become famous soon enough
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    No substances Brendan just not blissfully ignorant.
    Read the facts and make up my own mind.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Stallion aussiebreno is just really nice aussiebreno is just really nice
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    So at the end of the day do you reckon Hillier's have cheated or not?

  7. #17
    Senior Member 2YO Pena will become famous soon enough
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    The facts are Brendan, I believe there are a large number of people within the industry on a daily basis that contravene the rules. However without any genuine evidence, that would stand up in a court of law nobody should be prosecuted. There are many instances in history when people have been prosecuted without any genuine evidence and history and people despise these regimes. There has been a worrying trend of HRNSW being a law until themselves and personally I think this is having a detrimental effect on the industry as a whole. I all for punishing the guilty as long as the evidence and research is there and in this situation I do not believe there is sufficient non-circumstantial evidence.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Stallion aussiebreno is just really nice aussiebreno is just really nice
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    http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au...0re%20tco2.pdf

    What do you make of page 13 and page 14?

    No lawyer here but makes sense to me.

  9. #19
    Senior Member 2YO HISGEN65 will become famous soon enough HISGEN65's Avatar
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    do you think that horse racing will ever get to the stage where every race meeting will have some sort of "lock-down" period prior to the race ? this topic could even warrant its own thread ?

  10. #20
    Senior Member 2YO Pena will become famous soon enough
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    Brendan, unfortunately I think this demonstrates exactly where the industry has headed in the last 2 years. To start, with the precedents that the stewards have documented there are as many have been decided in the other parties favour. If HRNSW think they are a court why don't they start with an independent judge from day one. Can you imagine our legal system if the police prosecutor was also the magistrate. I am tipping that there would not be to many people being found "not guilty". HRNSW stewards ultimately know that to fight it they will simply bleed the participants dry. Note to HRNSW stewards you are not lawyers.

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