Roll With Joe
+ Reply to Thread
Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 7 8 9 10 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 94

Thread: How can it be good for Australia to have the NZers come and take all the prizemoney?

  1. #81
    Senior Member Stallion aussiebreno is just really nice aussiebreno is just really nice
    Real Name
    Brendan Bryce
    Posts
    2,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Showgrounds View Post
    Might as well shut up shop, then. Those of us who have been actively involved with horses for decades know that if they have never been caught doing anything illegal then the odds are shortening that they soon will. Put this down to the crusade of Dr Phillip Swann back in the 1980's which resulted in rules being changed to reflect it is the trainers' duty to present the horse for racing drug free. That was all drug, including therapeutic ones. Why is betting allowed of football when their would rarely being a player in the AFL not on some sort of painkiller or anti-inflammatory. At least a footballer can tell the club doctor where it hurts. Horses can't do that (unless it's name is Mr ED - of course, of course).

    We have poor older horses running in open class races and claimers all over the country just to make up the numbers. Is that good for the punting public, or the image of the sport when they invariably start to tire and drop out when crunch time hits in the last lap of a race?

    The widespread use of Swann's simplistic rule has, in my honest opinion, must partially take the blame for the loss of many industry participants over the years. The speed of horses has increased dramatically over the past four decades; nobody gets a warm feeling any more in their nether regions when their horse breaks 2 minutes. Unfortunately, the rules have stagnated for much of this time. The practice of milkshaking was pretty widespread among our old friends, the needy and the greedy, during the late '80's / early '90's especially in states like SA. It wasn't so much the bicarb soda (it is no wonder drug), it was what was added to it that mattered. Unfortunately, swabbing could not detect the additives only the bicarb that masked the true culprit. So, they introduced an acceptable level of bicarb detectable in the blood. A very smart filly of mine was always just below the limit through her natural blood levels. Prior to then, we used to use off the shelf products like Staminade the day before a race and the day after to stop horses from dehydrating. Nobody ever thought of it as "cheating"; we were just looking after the horse. These days, you have to be very careful in how you "look after the horse"!

    The real blight on the game, though, is the failure to recognize most our equine athletes bleed internally. Just like human ones when they perform at extreme levels under stress. Unfortunately, those that police our sport these days are not horsemen of old who understand the stresses horses go through just to get to racing stage let alone win or be competitive. I'd love to hand any steward a horse and a set of harness (without notice) and ask them to gear it up and put it in the cart. Would be great on U-Tube.

    The definition of a horse bleeding in Australia is when a steward observes blood coming from either nostril. The official "cure" is a 3 month ban - no recommendation for a course of treatment. If the horse comes back to racing they usually perform below their former self. Usually, they are still bleeding but undetected. In the North America, the horse is notified as a bleeder and can continue to race on Lasix which prevents most bleeding. That has been the case for many decades. Unfortunately, our "substance free" stance protects only the punter but not the horses.

    On the other hand, Kev, the needy and the greedy will still try and find that competitive edge. The latest bicarb "scandal" will come and go. The bigger scandals have been the Cobalt and Blue Magic ones. One problem - has a horse EVER produced a positive test to either after WINNING a race? Didn't think so! Perhaps reviewing the current rules re supplements and regulated therapeutic treatments would give EVERY horse, trainer and owner the competitive edge they seek.

    And then come down harder on the needy and the greedy! Just sayin'.

    Let ye who has committed no sin cast the first stone.
    I think you will find most people take a dimmer view of performance enhancers as opposed to painkillers. Penalties reflect this. Positives for bute do not ruin the game, its the other stuff.

    Concerns re bleeders are legitimate.

    Plenty of winning horses have provided positive swabs to blue magic and cobalt.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Stallion aussiebreno is just really nice aussiebreno is just really nice
    Real Name
    Brendan Bryce
    Posts
    2,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    Trevor, the problem is that we cannot celebrate the deeds of a stable that has a record - it is why athletics could not celebrate Justin Gatlin beating Usain Bolt at the World Championships. Sure it was a fair while ago but if that 's***' was to hit the fan nowadays there is no way he would get a mere 12 months. This is why some would like to see disqualification for serious offences result in loss of license forever
    Betting you wouldn't see Lance Armstrongs face on an official advertisement for the Tour De France. Beats me that media let alone HRNSW employed media will promote people who have had past indiscretions.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Colt Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Trevor Brown
    Posts
    130
    Name some of those horses, please, Breno.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Stallion aussiebreno is just really nice aussiebreno is just really nice
    Real Name
    Brendan Bryce
    Posts
    2,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Showgrounds View Post
    Name some of those horses, please, Breno.
    Are you actually trolling right now?

    Blue Magic in 2004:

    Pirates Treasure: Moonee Valley, January 9;
    Bavard: Moonee Valley, January 16, ;
    Angus Puddleduck: Maryborough, January 28;
    Rare Flyer: Cobram, February 5;
    Ken Way: Kilmore, March 17;
    Ken Way: Maryborough, March 31;
    Pirates Treasure: Yarra Valley, April 11.

    Cobalt 2014:

    Coogee Coogee Young January 24
    The Big Marn Menangle January 21
    Major Denial Goulburn January 27
    Earls Reign Albury March 1
    Saucy Legend Menangle Feb 25
    Tiny Tinker Newcastle Feb 28



    Just a small sample.

  5. #85
    Super Moderator Horse Of The Year teecee has a spectacular aura about teecee's Avatar
    Real Name
    Tony Cahill
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    805
    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    Trevor, my problem is that I am not a forgiving chap and I don't ever want to see harness have a scandal of the magnitude of the Tour de France (again)

    http://www.harnesslink.com/News/MARK...S-GUILTY-27448

    For those who have forgotten / wonder what it is that some can't forget after 12 years......

    http://www.jca.org.nz/race-days/dumm...earchterm=Mark Purdon*

  6. #86
    Senior Member Colt Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Trevor Brown
    Posts
    130
    The idea of a forum is to allow people to share their opinion, or so I thought. To put forward your opinion, only to be accused of trolling, is not a forum - it's group-think.

    Keep thinking alike of that is what you want in life.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Amlin will become famous soon enough Amlin's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kyle Galley
    Posts
    567
    Friends of mine bred Our Waikiki Beach. The two subsequent foals from the mare have different owners and different trainers, so there is clearly more than one group of people willing to pay good money for the chance of owning (perhaps) a good horse.

  8. #88
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kevin O'Donoghue
    Location
    The Gap
    Occupation
    Retired
    Posts
    5,897
    Horses
    A long, long time ago
    Quote Originally Posted by Showgrounds View Post
    The idea of a forum is to allow people to share their opinion, or so I thought. To put forward your opinion, only to be accused of trolling, is not a forum - it's group-think.

    Keep thinking alike of that is what you want in life.
    Please keep sharing your opinions Trevor, I could have deleted Breno's 'trolling' or edited it to 'joking' but I left it as I can be too heavy handed.
    I cannot see how a poster or two disagreeing with you amounts to group-think. We may hear from others who agree with you but I must say that I have had posts that everybody disagreed with and I never thought "this is not a forum"
    The Thin Green Line - Supporting the Rangers who protect the world's endangered animals against poachers

  9. #89
    Senior Member Stallion aussiebreno is just really nice aussiebreno is just really nice
    Real Name
    Brendan Bryce
    Posts
    2,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Showgrounds View Post
    The idea of a forum is to allow people to share their opinion, or so I thought. To put forward your opinion, only to be accused of trolling, is not a forum - it's group-think.

    Keep thinking alike of that is what you want in life.
    Stating there was no positive swabs for Blue Magic and cobalt is not opinion , it is facts that were blatantly wrong.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year arlington will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Wayne Hayes
    Posts
    548
    Not Blue Magic but blood related? Couldn't see how this helps the All Stars spin
    28 June 2017 Trainer Mark Purdon - Inquiry Concluded
    http://www.harness.org.au/media-room...?news_id=34046


    Bleeders
    VIC - Post-race endoscopic examinations
    http://www.harness.org.au/media-room...?news_id=35903
    Now if this was America this initiative would help differentiate between the true bleeders and the horses that get their nostrils pricked to go on Lasix as a performance enhancer. What are the stats in America...4% are true bleeders but 90% are given Lasix hmmm. Every other racing jurisdiction has Lasix banned and even the Hambletonian. Of the 4% who are true bleeders, Lasix might only be helpful for a percentage of those.

    In Aus, certainly in Vic, the sign of blood at the nostrils is investigated further by an endoscopic exam before the horse is ruled to have bled. But I guess the point is, or what might be being debated is, was Blue Magic really for bleeders? Did others who got pinged also try to use that defence? And I suppose all that got pinged for aminocaproic acid had bleeders, confirmed by a stable endoscope diagnosis?

    My thoughts are we should applaud Dr Swann's initiative. Those participants who may have left, well, in most cases it may have been good riddance. Could well be Dr Swann laid the foundations for Vic harness racing having the opportunity to be a leader in drug detection and clean racing. Pretty sure it was Brant Dunshea, former HRV Chief Steward, who was behind the first detection of EPO in Australian racing.

    The "simplistic" rule of the trainer's duty to present drug free not really having changed since Dr Swann's days. What has changed is in a lot of instances the lawyers finding any loop hole or bunny to shift the trainers guiltiness. I agree, it is a somewhat precarious rule that I'm sure stewards/integrity departments would like to replace with the perfect rule.

    But, like it or not, especially these days, the wider community's expectation of animal care is pretty well limited to hay, oats and water.

    And whilst I have strayed from the thread title, Trevor, your broad brush stroke about stewards and youtube, there are stewards who were trainer drivers.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts