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Thread: How can it be good for Australia to have the NZers come and take all the prizemoney?

  1. #71
    Super Moderator Horse Of The Year teecee has a spectacular aura about teecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    If the ownership is well spread it could be some consolation but I cannot see how it can be good for other trainers for one if the following domination continues

    http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia...tars-onslaught
    Whilst the sentiments of this thread are based around ALL Stars they are not necessarily alone.....


    Compliments of ALL Stars website...
    ALL STARS "NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME"-ITS A MYTH
    (EDITORIAL)
    You hear it wherever you go from a vocal minority-the amazing success of Mark and Natalie is "not good for the game". It is hard to understand what this actually means given aiming to win and excellence in achieving that is what horse racing is supposed to be about. But it appears that dominating of Premier days leaving rival owners out of pocket is one factor.
    While the real sportsmen and women in the industry applaud the remarkable chain of success unparallelled in 130 years of our history rivals frustration over what they call the "blue army" is understandable. Mark and Natalie's charges are always hard to beat But "not good for the game ?" -its a myth.
    In 2017 All Stars won 50 Premier races, a staggering feat. But in fact horses from Rolleston started in less than 50 per cent of the Premier races held. That left 80 Premier races to be contested without any All Stars colours in the field. Hardly extreme domination-more extreme strike rate, which is quite a different thing.
    Domination by large stables,hardly new, is as inevitable in harness racing as it has been with the thoroughbreds. It takes superior horsemanship and the business savvy to capitalise.The forces behind it-especially the dominance of the Yearling Sales now almost a trainer's greatest challenge of the season -and the financial power syndication brings, are similar. It's progress. Indeed relying on a torch-bearing stable like All Stars to raise the profile of the game is far superior to having a series of small teams with little national profile.
    Of course this sort of thing is not new as Roy and Barry could tell you. Success always brings envy as well as admiration and success on the All Stars scale adds to both.
    Their success can be put down to expert selection of yearlings (more like a genius); expert development of young stars but equally with older ones; patience success brings; a vision of how harness racing is developing at the top level; round the clock planning and hands on work ethic amounting to enormous dedication and so the attraction to owners willing to invest.
    Most thinking administrators, far from wanting to blunt the All Stars success (as the new rating system has) know encouraging their long term committment to our industry is essential if they want to be on the big stage.
    Stats show there are still plenty of races left to win for others if their horses are good enough. All Stars being "Not good for the game" is not an excuse if they are not.
    (Site Editor)

    This is relevant not just to NZ but across Australasia as a whole..

    Your own research from another thread

    We can see the AllStars dominate (and it is highly unlikely that this includes the $933k they have won in Oz) but I was surprised to see that there are 26 trainers who have won in excess of $100k in stakes (even if they are 5 months into their season compared to our 4)
    We have to remember that NZ in total only run as many races as Victoria
    Last edited by teecee; 01-10-2018 at 10:14 AM.

  2. #72
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I only skimmed it after reading "While the real sportsmen ....."
    Manipulative arguing to suggest that all that do not agree are not

    If you're not sure whether they are taking all the cream, sort the premiership table by prizemoney
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  3. #73
    Senior Member Stallion Showgrounds is just really nice Showgrounds is just really nice
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    Every participant in the industry is welcome to challenge for the title of top dog. However, 99% of them have neither the inclination, knowledge, skills, demeanor, energy and the other 11 secret herbs and spices (no, psychological ones, not pharmaceutical) necessary for them to topple the All Stars. No doubt it is the owners and the horses behind the success, witnessed by their participation at Australian yearling sales in recent years. The spoils, in earlier years, produced Smolda while recently Our Waikiki Beach and Vincent have plundered sires stakes. No doubt yearling sales vendors have been delighted by the stable and its owners being so active. Good luck to all concerned.

  4. #74
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Trevor, my problem is that I am not a forgiving chap and I don't ever want to see harness have a scandal of the magnitude of the Tour de France (again)

    http://www.harnesslink.com/News/MARK...S-GUILTY-27448
    Last edited by teecee; 01-10-2018 at 10:27 PM.
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  5. #75
    Senior Member Stallion Showgrounds is just really nice Showgrounds is just really nice
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    I understand you are not a forgiving person. However, you are drawing a long bow.

    There is another thread here called How Can We Improve Harness Racing, or something like it. I would suggest we celebrate the deeds of a stable, its owners and horses that have put a drastically needed spotlight on all that is positive with the sport - champion horses. Or, we could continue to drag down tall poppies which is one thing we do in this business with extreme efficiency. Would you prefer headlines about the success of Purdon's horses or ones like the Aquanita charges that are dominating front pages in every state today?

    The incident you mention culminated in tragedy for all concerned. Sometimes, hopefully never, people make decisions in their lives that have dire consequences. Some cannot live with those consequences, some ignore them and others learn from them. Those that learn from them must also learn to wear the stain as they move on with life.

  6. #76
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showgrounds View Post
    I understand you are not a forgiving person. However, you are drawing a long bow.

    There is another thread here called How Can We Improve Harness Racing, or something like it. I would suggest we celebrate the deeds of a stable, its owners and horses that have put a drastically needed spotlight on all that is positive with the sport - champion horses. Or, we could continue to drag down tall poppies which is one thing we do in this business with extreme efficiency. Would you prefer headlines about the success of Purdon's horses or ones like the Aquanita charges that are dominating front pages in every state today?

    The incident you mention culminated in tragedy for all concerned. Sometimes, hopefully never, people make decisions in their lives that have dire consequences. Some cannot live with those consequences, some ignore them and others learn from them. Those that learn from them must also learn to wear the stain as they move on with life.
    I can think of worse headlines than Aquanita.

    "Millionaire Kiwi owner found dead after being charged in blue-magic furore"

  7. #77
    Senior Member Stallion Showgrounds is just really nice Showgrounds is just really nice
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    Yep, dire consequences as I said. It will be very interesting no to watch the thoroughbred industry wriggle its way through the latest sham. Does it not perform raceday Co2 testing on course? How has it come to this?

    Oh, I forgot. The thoroughbreds are supposed to be clean and the trots are supposed to be crooked. I better get back in my cupboard.

  8. #78
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showgrounds View Post
    Yep, dire consequences as I said. It will be very interesting no to watch the thoroughbred industry wriggle its way through the latest sham. Does it not perform raceday Co2 testing on course? How has it come to this?

    Oh, I forgot. The thoroughbreds are supposed to be clean and the trots are supposed to be crooked. I better get back in my cupboard.
    Annoys me no end gallops have a cleaner image. However that wasn't the point, the point was Purdon headlines are not good for the sport. Not tall poppy to shoot down Purdon at all. Shooting down of Purdon is largely because of this

    http://www.harnesslink.com/News/MARK...S-GUILTY-27448

    With this over his head there is no way any Purdon headlines can ever be good for the sport.

    It is a mixture of humorous, condescending and disrespectful to put out print media that states "It takes superior horsemanship and the business savvy to capitalise" to describe your operations when you have past indiscretions.

  9. #79
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showgrounds View Post
    I understand you are not a forgiving person. However, you are drawing a long bow.

    There is another thread here called How Can We Improve Harness Racing, or something like it. I would suggest we celebrate the deeds of a stable, its owners and horses that have put a drastically needed spotlight on all that is positive with the sport - champion horses. Or, we could continue to drag down tall poppies which is one thing we do in this business with extreme efficiency. Would you prefer headlines about the success of Purdon's horses or ones like the Aquanita charges that are dominating front pages in every state today?

    The incident you mention culminated in tragedy for all concerned. Sometimes, hopefully never, people make decisions in their lives that have dire consequences. Some cannot live with those consequences, some ignore them and others learn from them. Those that learn from them must also learn to wear the stain as they move on with life.
    Trevor, the problem is that we cannot celebrate the deeds of a stable that has a record - it is why athletics could not celebrate Justin Gatlin beating Usain Bolt at the World Championships. Sure it was a fair while ago but if that 's***' was to hit the fan nowadays there is no way he would get a mere 12 months. This is why some would like to see disqualification for serious offences result in loss of license forever
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  10. #80
    Senior Member Stallion Showgrounds is just really nice Showgrounds is just really nice
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    Trevor, the problem is that we cannot celebrate the deeds of a stable that has a record - it is why athletics could not celebrate Justin Gatlin beating Usain Bolt at the World Championships. Sure it was a fair while ago but if that 's***' was to hit the fan nowadays there is no way he would get a mere 12 months. This is why some would like to see disqualification for serious offences result in loss of license forever
    Might as well shut up shop, then. Those of us who have been actively involved with horses for decades know that if they have never been caught doing anything illegal then the odds are shortening that they soon will. Put this down to the crusade of Dr Phillip Swann back in the 1980's which resulted in rules being changed to reflect it is the trainers' duty to present the horse for racing drug free. That was all drug, including therapeutic ones. Why is betting allowed of football when their would rarely being a player in the AFL not on some sort of painkiller or anti-inflammatory. At least a footballer can tell the club doctor where it hurts. Horses can't do that (unless it's name is Mr ED - of course, of course).

    We have poor older horses running in open class races and claimers all over the country just to make up the numbers. Is that good for the punting public, or the image of the sport when they invariably start to tire and drop out when crunch time hits in the last lap of a race?

    The widespread use of Swann's simplistic rule has, in my honest opinion, must partially take the blame for the loss of many industry participants over the years. The speed of horses has increased dramatically over the past four decades; nobody gets a warm feeling any more in their nether regions when their horse breaks 2 minutes. Unfortunately, the rules have stagnated for much of this time. The practice of milkshaking was pretty widespread among our old friends, the needy and the greedy, during the late '80's / early '90's especially in states like SA. It wasn't so much the bicarb soda (it is no wonder drug), it was what was added to it that mattered. Unfortunately, swabbing could not detect the additives only the bicarb that masked the true culprit. So, they introduced an acceptable level of bicarb detectable in the blood. A very smart filly of mine was always just below the limit through her natural blood levels. Prior to then, we used to use off the shelf products like Staminade the day before a race and the day after to stop horses from dehydrating. Nobody ever thought of it as "cheating"; we were just looking after the horse. These days, you have to be very careful in how you "look after the horse"!

    The real blight on the game, though, is the failure to recognize most our equine athletes bleed internally. Just like human ones when they perform at extreme levels under stress. Unfortunately, those that police our sport these days are not horsemen of old who understand the stresses horses go through just to get to racing stage let alone win or be competitive. I'd love to hand any steward a horse and a set of harness (without notice) and ask them to gear it up and put it in the cart. Would be great on U-Tube.

    The definition of a horse bleeding in Australia is when a steward observes blood coming from either nostril. The official "cure" is a 3 month ban - no recommendation for a course of treatment. If the horse comes back to racing they usually perform below their former self. Usually, they are still bleeding but undetected. In the North America, the horse is notified as a bleeder and can continue to race on Lasix which prevents most bleeding. That has been the case for many decades. Unfortunately, our "substance free" stance protects only the punter but not the horses.

    On the other hand, Kev, the needy and the greedy will still try and find that competitive edge. The latest bicarb "scandal" will come and go. The bigger scandals have been the Cobalt and Blue Magic ones. One problem - has a horse EVER produced a positive test to either after WINNING a race? Didn't think so! Perhaps reviewing the current rules re supplements and regulated therapeutic treatments would give EVERY horse, trainer and owner the competitive edge they seek.

    And then come down harder on the needy and the greedy! Just sayin'.

    Let ye who has committed no sin cast the first stone.

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