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Thread: NSW grading....becoming a joke

  1. #21
    Member Filly DRUIDRACING will become famous soon enough
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    bailey are you a punter ? then you should be rich picking all these horses that get in races via the rules. in the early days of the gallops rating benchmark you could pick the better rated ones but not so much now. this system is in place so trainers have no alternative but to use it and when possible to their advantage but then bad form may miss the race you should win by being balloted out.

  2. #22
    Senior Member 4YO p plater will become famous soon enough
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    Hi Steven,
    Yeah I have a punt but not to any great degree.
    Maybe you have misunderstood my stand on this matter. It appears the industry in NSW is making its decisions purely to increase betting turnover, from the CEO's comments to increased race sizes. No doubt the idea of the Handicappers framing the race conditions AFTER nominations was to ensure races stood up, fair enough no major problem with that. The problem lies imo, they then apply conditions to allow horses way beyond the base of a race to compete, as highlighted recently with Monifieth a M9 at the time of nomination being allowed to compete against horses coming through the grades in a M1-M2 heat for a Group 3 final for M1-M2, that's what the program stated.
    We see it every week these add on conditions. But this is driving Owners and Trainers up the wall, they have no control in the placement of their horses. It was not that long ago when trainers could map out a program for their horse knowing the class of horse and possible barrier position at the time of nomination. As trainers say "no gut buster" and some trainers were outstanding at placing a horse. That has now gone with the C2 or better and M2 or better lotto that now prevails.
    NSW needs to allow owners and trainers to place their horses, let them feel they have an input and encourage involvement..we need more owners to boast our racing stock which in turn will increase race sizes and turnover.

  3. #23
    Member Filly DRUIDRACING will become famous soon enough
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    Im not sure the field sizes will make to much difference to turnover but i may be wrong. The average punter dont look at the class of the horses they look at the price as i see it. i would like to know what % of turnover is from Fixed betting.
    the class system as I see it does keep horses in the system longer with the drop down system. with all the problems from various avenues i would imagine that the pool of horses would have reduced by now thus C2 or better races framed by the authority allows them to program the races from nominations. I have taken a sample of over 4500 horses predominately residing and racing in NSW and found CO 35% C1 20% C2 9.5% C3 6% C4 4% C5 1.5% C6 1% and C7+ 2.5% so working on my figures all 25% of horses are C2 or better. so the horse pool of C3 and C4 is very low thus it would be very hard to frame specific races without conditions. 4% of horses raced win a MO. I recall that Western Australia at regional centres had a problem with too many C1 class horses and not enough races. In a nutshell Im glad im not trying to frame race programs.

  4. #24
    Member Gelding gregcattell is on a distinguished road
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    so your happy to race a co up against m5 horses

  5. #25
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Maybe this is why there were far more Stand Start handicaps in the old days with horses coming off 100m+
    Stand Starts are certainly one way of mixing classes more fairly so maybe the predominance of the mobile is a major part of the problem which is probably the result of punter preference/turnover figures
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  6. #26
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    A long, long time ago
    A look at Swan Hill tonight is probably a good example of why NSW are trying something

    R.1 $217k winner Linda Lovegrace going around at $1.04 in a C0 (probably no surprise the field shrunk from 11 to 7 with 4 savvy scratchings)

    R.6 $198k C14 M5 Uncle Wingnut going around in a C6+ against 3 M0's and 1 M1 On paper it appeared to be a good race but as might be expected, despite doing all the work, Uncle was too strong

    ps Only a 6 race program (43 starters) is a worry in itself

    Results http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...B220915&ms=vic
    Fields http://www.harness.org.au/fields.cfm...&fromstate=vic
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  7. #27
    Member Filly DRUIDRACING will become famous soon enough
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    I may be wrong but field sizes are shrinking, could this be a flow on effect from the new class system, low horse numbers, time of year ? Bathurst fields last night were poor for this great track. Only 5 heats of the Canola cup $30k race one heat less than last year. Maybe thats why Bathurst had smaller fields.

  8. #28
    Junior Member Foal Rex Horne will become famous soon enough
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    I read with interest your condemnation of the NSW handicapping system and I make the following comments.

    You talk about the horse Monifieth in a heat of the M1/M2 that also had conditions. The horse won the heat with a starting price of $2.20 (hardly a short priced favourite).

    In the final the next week the horse started at $2.40 and came 3rd. The best starting price for harness racing is between $1.90 and $2.50.

    If this horse was so much better than the rest of the field it would have started at $1.10.

    A horses' last 5 to 7 starts is more important than its M class or C class and the best person to work that out is the professional handicapper.

    The divided handicapping system is used for 2 or 3 races of an 8 race program and most often is for C2 and better and M2 and better.


    Year on year the new system has provided:
    • Less odds on favourites (an 8.2% decrease).
    • Larger field sizes (8.7-9.2).
    • Average turnover per race was up $5,600 in the last financial year and is up a further $1,300 per race in this financial year.
    • The percentage of winning owner partnerships increased from 48.0% to 50.7%
    • The percentage of winning trainers increased from 55.5% to 57.4%.
    • The percentage of winning drivers increased from 49.7% to 54.2%.
    I do not think there will ever be a perfect grading system but do firmly believe it is more flexible than what we had and it is working.

    Rex Horne
    Chairman HRNSW

  9. #29
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info Rex. The odds would seem to be a great indicator of whether the horse had a huge class advantage. I suppose the fact that the horse had won a Gp3 FFA and a Listed FFA in his last 7 starts caught some people's attention. The figures provided (along with the 14% increase in midweek prizemoney) are figures that appear to be going in the right direction
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  10. #30
    aussiebreno
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    Do we have a problem with horses who have been consistently in a grade not just for 5 or 7 starts but 40 starts being disadvantaged by horses who were in a higher grade for 40 starts then dropping back on the basis of 5 or 7 and once again beating the horses who have been in that lower grade for 40 starts?

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