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Thread: How do we get people to breed more horses?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year mightymo will become famous soon enough
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    How do we get people to breed more horses?

    This topic has been discussed from time to time, and a number of the posters on this forum seem to either want to scrap 2yo racing or divert significant prizemoney from 2 and 3yo's to open class pacers.

    In light of this, I found this article from well known US scribe, Bill Finley, very interesting.

    http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/p...u100815.pdf?v2

  2. #2
    Senior Member Colt Mark Croatto will become famous soon enough
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    Hi Harvey

    I'm only a hobby breeder and with a few friends have bred one mare per season up until last year when we bred two. We breed to race but this season I have extended myself and have an involvement in 4 mares which are going to some decent stallions. I've done this for a couple of reasons, firstly I can afford it this year, and secondly, I tend to think the yearling sales are on the improve and will be OK over the next couple of years.

    Like any business venture, people are unlikely to invest unless they have some hope they can make a profit, so there is no doubt in my mind, whether one is a buyer or breeder, the product (horse) has to be able to provide a profit and that boils down to reasonable prize money and opportunity. Diverting prize money from 2YO racing, or condensing the 2YO racing season as has been suggested in submissions made to HRNSW (http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au...idation-report) is going to restrict the opportunity for many people and will only ensure less people being prepared to invest in either breeding or racing 2YOs.

    Business has always been about supply and demand; we can come up with any number of schemes to encourage breeders to breed more horses, but without the buyer is there really any point in it? So, from my perspective, the question should be 'how do we get more people to buy yearlings?'

    Regards

    Mark

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Harvey, I don't know that there are many posters on here that want to scrap 2yo racing and I don't think I have seen anyone suggest diverting prizemoney from 3yo racing (but I could be wrong) but either way I am not sure that statement has a lot to do with the interesting article you linked. I think Mark's alternative question 'how do we get more people to buy yearlings' is more relevant to the article.

    I don't think suggesting 'buy a yearling and you can get your money back quickly' is something that we can promote under any guise for it cannot be denied that not all yearlings are going to be ready as 2yo's and so I do not think that there needs to be such an emphasis on 2yo prizemoney. Listening to young Luke Humphrey being asked on Harness Review about he came to be involved in harness, he talked about how lucky the family were to have a horse (Palais du Louvre) race for so many years - interesting take from an amazingly wise 14/15yo

    In my submission to HRV I stressed getting the entertainment package right to get people to come to the trots. Not just people but families for most of us will say that we were 'infected' with the trots at a young age. My main reason for emphasizing attendance was in part my answer to their question on horse population - You have to get people to come to the trots before you can sell them a horse

    Reading between the lines of the linked article, I get the feel that the people on track/their money source in the USA are pokies players - they are not going to buy horses if they are not there for the races

    As Mark points out, fair return for the breeder is of course influenced by the lure of good prizemoney for the buyer but the old economic keystone - supply and demand, is still a major factor and we have to have enough people wanting to own a standardbred and to me that requires more people to be going to the trots. This is where the suggestion that the punting dollar is more important than attendance - falls down IMO

    I am reminded of some of Ray Chaplin's comprehensive reports and his belief that we have to attract 'high value' customers and include the links to a couple of relevant threads

    http://www.harnessracingforum.com/sh...hlight=Chaplin

    http://www.harnessracingforum.com/sh...hlight=Chaplin

    ps If 'real' returns to breeders is decreasing in the U.S they should be striking a better deal on stallion fees to share the pain - I don't think stud fees have come down or have they? (what does that tell us?)
    Last edited by Messenger; 10-09-2015 at 11:27 AM. Reason: ps
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  4. #4
    Senior Member Colt Mark Croatto will become famous soon enough
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    A successful business has to cover all bases, and 2YO racing is an important part of ours. Whilst I think there is more than enough prize-money available for 2YO's, I don't think it is spread well enough to maximise the potential for return to those who invest.

    In NSW the premier series is the Breeders Challenge yet the window of opportunity to participate in 2015 was only 16 days commencing with heats at Wagga Wagga on 16 May and concluding at Menangle on the 2 June. The series programmed 10 heats of $15,000, however 13 were conducted as Menangle hosted 3 extra heats on their day. Some may be happy with this but I certainly am not. The opportunity to participate is so restricted that it certainly causes you to think 'why bother'. Heats were held at Wagga Wagga (16th May), Bathurst (20th May), Penrith (21st May) and Newcastle (22nd May). By design they are scheduled to prevent horses competing at more than 1 venue, so it boils down to having 1 shot at the premier series in this state. Of course you can then go to Menangle a fortnight later but that doesn't suit all participants. By comparison the old NSW Sires Stakes was far superior.

    In the 1997/98 season, the 2YO series commenced on the 4th February at Bathurst and there were a further 20 heats throughout the State carrying prize-money of $10,000 per heat! That is nearly 100% more than we have today. Some people may be OK with a reduction in heat numbers as they do carry 50% more prize-money, however, when the industry is struggling we should be doing all that we can possibly do to encourage breeding and investment and reducing opportunity is, in my view a seriously backward step. Horses are fickle creatures and we all know how easily they can get injured, maximising opportunity is foremost to helping people consider whether they will be involved.

    Regards

  5. #5
    Senior Member 2YO jackthepunter will become famous soon enough
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    A massive amount of money has to be put in to country racing, thats were 99% of the sport compete and are trying to make enough to survive, and the country prize money is disgraceful and a slap in the face for all involved. Only one horse can win a big 2-3 year old race or open class race and only 12 horses can get in the fields. The reality is most horses are lucky if they can make it to the races and even luckier if they can win one race. A classic example of this down here in vic, is the latest prize money increases nearly all of it went into big races. You cant honesty think people long term are going to keep buying yearling or breeding horses when in 99% times their going to be racing in the country for on average $3,848 for a win, I mean really that doesn't even cover the cost of that preparation to get the horse to the races.

  6. #6
    Senior Member 2YO jackthepunter will become famous soon enough
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    You breed and race alot of horse harvey, what are your thoughts?? Do you agree with any of my comments?

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I have a question too Jack. Do people agree that we need to get attendance up if we want more owners/participants?
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  8. #8
    Senior Member 2YO jackthepunter will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    I have a question too Jack. Do people agree that we need to get attendance up if we want more owners/participants?
    Yes I agree Kev, problem is hrv made a epic balls up building Melton. No sport in the world survives without a city/metro base,because that's were all the money is. So I can't see crowds every coming back at Melton,it's a poor facility all round,no public transport, on the wrong side of town, how the government/racing minster ever sign off on it beggers belief, they have alot to answer for past governments IMO how they let the sport go on unchecked and unmonitored for so long until the audit came out and showed where the sports really at.
    Last edited by jackthepunter; 10-09-2015 at 10:50 PM.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I too appreciate this Jack, I did not dwell on it in my submission (could have!) but in answering the question on how to expand in the eastern suburbs I suggested that we need a sister track for Melton in the east - possibly Cranbourne
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  10. #10
    Senior Member 2YO jackthepunter will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    I too appreciate this Jack, I did not dwell on it in my submission (could have!) but in answering the question on how to expand in the eastern suburbs I suggested that we need a sister track for Melton in the east - possibly Cranbourne
    That's a possibility Kev, my only issue with Cranbourne is the track isn't the best and being inside the gallop track ruins the up close experience to the horses, their nothing like feeling the horse fly right past you

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