This topic has been discussed from time to time, and a number of the posters on this forum seem to either want to scrap 2yo racing or divert significant prizemoney from 2 and 3yo's to open class pacers.
In light of this, I found this article from well known US scribe, Bill Finley, very interesting.
http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/p...u100815.pdf?v2
Hi Harvey
I'm only a hobby breeder and with a few friends have bred one mare per season up until last year when we bred two. We breed to race but this season I have extended myself and have an involvement in 4 mares which are going to some decent stallions. I've done this for a couple of reasons, firstly I can afford it this year, and secondly, I tend to think the yearling sales are on the improve and will be OK over the next couple of years.
Like any business venture, people are unlikely to invest unless they have some hope they can make a profit, so there is no doubt in my mind, whether one is a buyer or breeder, the product (horse) has to be able to provide a profit and that boils down to reasonable prize money and opportunity. Diverting prize money from 2YO racing, or condensing the 2YO racing season as has been suggested in submissions made to HRNSW (http://www.harnessmediacentre.com.au...idation-report) is going to restrict the opportunity for many people and will only ensure less people being prepared to invest in either breeding or racing 2YOs.
Business has always been about supply and demand; we can come up with any number of schemes to encourage breeders to breed more horses, but without the buyer is there really any point in it? So, from my perspective, the question should be 'how do we get more people to buy yearlings?'
Regards
Mark
Harvey, I don't know that there are many posters on here that want to scrap 2yo racing and I don't think I have seen anyone suggest diverting prizemoney from 3yo racing (but I could be wrong) but either way I am not sure that statement has a lot to do with the interesting article you linked. I think Mark's alternative question 'how do we get more people to buy yearlings' is more relevant to the article.
I don't think suggesting 'buy a yearling and you can get your money back quickly' is something that we can promote under any guise for it cannot be denied that not all yearlings are going to be ready as 2yo's and so I do not think that there needs to be such an emphasis on 2yo prizemoney. Listening to young Luke Humphrey being asked on Harness Review about he came to be involved in harness, he talked about how lucky the family were to have a horse (Palais du Louvre) race for so many years - interesting take from an amazingly wise 14/15yo
In my submission to HRV I stressed getting the entertainment package right to get people to come to the trots. Not just people but families for most of us will say that we were 'infected' with the trots at a young age. My main reason for emphasizing attendance was in part my answer to their question on horse population - You have to get people to come to the trots before you can sell them a horse
Reading between the lines of the linked article, I get the feel that the people on track/their money source in the USA are pokies players - they are not going to buy horses if they are not there for the races
As Mark points out, fair return for the breeder is of course influenced by the lure of good prizemoney for the buyer but the old economic keystone - supply and demand, is still a major factor and we have to have enough people wanting to own a standardbred and to me that requires more people to be going to the trots. This is where the suggestion that the punting dollar is more important than attendance - falls down IMO
I am reminded of some of Ray Chaplin's comprehensive reports and his belief that we have to attract 'high value' customers and include the links to a couple of relevant threads
http://www.harnessracingforum.com/sh...hlight=Chaplin
http://www.harnessracingforum.com/sh...hlight=Chaplin
ps If 'real' returns to breeders is decreasing in the U.S they should be striking a better deal on stallion fees to share the pain - I don't think stud fees have come down or have they? (what does that tell us?)
Last edited by Messenger; 10-09-2015 at 11:27 AM. Reason: ps
per un PUGNO di DOLLARI
A successful business has to cover all bases, and 2YO racing is an important part of ours. Whilst I think there is more than enough prize-money available for 2YO's, I don't think it is spread well enough to maximise the potential for return to those who invest.
In NSW the premier series is the Breeders Challenge yet the window of opportunity to participate in 2015 was only 16 days commencing with heats at Wagga Wagga on 16 May and concluding at Menangle on the 2 June. The series programmed 10 heats of $15,000, however 13 were conducted as Menangle hosted 3 extra heats on their day. Some may be happy with this but I certainly am not. The opportunity to participate is so restricted that it certainly causes you to think 'why bother'. Heats were held at Wagga Wagga (16th May), Bathurst (20th May), Penrith (21st May) and Newcastle (22nd May). By design they are scheduled to prevent horses competing at more than 1 venue, so it boils down to having 1 shot at the premier series in this state. Of course you can then go to Menangle a fortnight later but that doesn't suit all participants. By comparison the old NSW Sires Stakes was far superior.
In the 1997/98 season, the 2YO series commenced on the 4th February at Bathurst and there were a further 20 heats throughout the State carrying prize-money of $10,000 per heat! That is nearly 100% more than we have today. Some people may be OK with a reduction in heat numbers as they do carry 50% more prize-money, however, when the industry is struggling we should be doing all that we can possibly do to encourage breeding and investment and reducing opportunity is, in my view a seriously backward step. Horses are fickle creatures and we all know how easily they can get injured, maximising opportunity is foremost to helping people consider whether they will be involved.
Regards
A massive amount of money has to be put in to country racing, thats were 99% of the sport compete and are trying to make enough to survive, and the country prize money is disgraceful and a slap in the face for all involved. Only one horse can win a big 2-3 year old race or open class race and only 12 horses can get in the fields. The reality is most horses are lucky if they can make it to the races and even luckier if they can win one race. A classic example of this down here in vic, is the latest prize money increases nearly all of it went into big races. You cant honesty think people long term are going to keep buying yearling or breeding horses when in 99% times their going to be racing in the country for on average $3,848 for a win, I mean really that doesn't even cover the cost of that preparation to get the horse to the races.
Hi Jack,Originally Posted by jackthepunter
I'd be interested in knowing how you come up with your figures.
The stakes increases you have referenced by saying "a classic example of this down here in vic, is the latest prize money increases nearly all of it went into big races". are quite interesting.
The following is the full list of stakes increases that were announced by Victoria. Can you please define what you mean by "nearly all" in the above statement? I'll bold the bits where I think you've erred.
Graduation races from $3000 to $3500 (42 meetings a year)
Metropolitan front M1 and TM1 or better class events by $1000 a race
Country fillies and mares races by $1000 a race (excluding Futurity races)
Country penalty races at Tabcorp Park Melton metropolitan meetings by $1000 a race
Payments for horses that finish sixth to last increase by $10.
Listed metropolitan feature races from $25,000 to $30,000 (and become Group 3 events)
Hunter Cup from $400,000 to $500,000
4YO & 5YO Championship from $50,000 to $75,000
4YO Bonanza from $30,000 to $100,000 (becomes Victorias first non-Futurity Group 1 for four-year-olds)
Vicbred First Win bonus for 4YOs increases from $5000 to $7000 in line with 2YO and 3YO bonuses (estimated increase of $430,000)
Country Pacing Cups prize money increases by $154,000
Country Trotting Cups prize money increases by $57,000
Maori Mile at Bendigo from $30,000 to $50,000 (becomes a Group 1)
When you consider Vicbred First Win Bonus changing to include 4yos alone is estimated at an increase of $430,000, and the increases in stakes opportunities for graduation races, of which there are 42 meetings annually, country fillies and mares races, country penalty races at Melton and increased earnings for horses that finish 6th to last, I'd challenge your expressed views as being rather flawed.
We all know country trots folk need to be able to race for enough prizemoney to earn a proper crust, which is why I think the most recent stakes announcement here in Victoria was so encouraging and a step in the right direction.
IMO all that money and any future stake increases should go into country prize money, because country races is where the heart of the sport is, and the prize money is know where near good enough or sustainable for the future. Metro prize money while not great didn't need to be increase nor did these other race your listed, because their all ready had enough money and the same horses would have run in them anyway. I do find increasing races like the 4yo bonanza by $70,000 beyond ridiculous, the same with those other races because imo their didn't need urget help or an increase. The Graduation race system doesn't work the way it should anyway, its supposed to give horses with not much ability the chance to earn money but alot of the time it doesn't because you at hrv, run to many heat and final races which allow good horses to run in them and use them as trails, or u get alot of noms for one class and none for another so you split the two races same problem again. A good example is last nite at shepparton, what is a horse like iceobar doing running at this meeting?? All these races should be ran as restricted class races eg, ro,r1 races so the horses their supposed to help are the ones getting a chance to earn in them, get rid of the heat and finals and give people a chance.
You breed and race alot of horse harvey, what are your thoughts?? Do you agree with any of my comments?
I have a question too Jack. Do people agree that we need to get attendance up if we want more owners/participants?
per un PUGNO di DOLLARI
Yes I agree Kev, problem is hrv made a epic balls up building Melton. No sport in the world survives without a city/metro base,because that's were all the money is. So I can't see crowds every coming back at Melton,it's a poor facility all round,no public transport, on the wrong side of town, how the government/racing minster ever sign off on it beggers belief, they have alot to answer for past governments IMO how they let the sport go on unchecked and unmonitored for so long until the audit came out and showed where the sports really at.
Last edited by jackthepunter; 10-09-2015 at 10:50 PM.
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