Reply With QuoteAnd another one, Dave Moran on Lochinver Art last night just needed to be DQed and we'd never see an inside back row horse deliberately OPS ever again.Originally Posted by Messenger
Fines do NOTHING to deter drivers from flouting the whip rule
see last night's Gp1 Triad for the fillies at Albion Park
or the Gp2 Derby - both close finishes where the winning drivers abused the whip rule and received a mere fine
Tell the drivers they could lose a race for flouting the rule and it will stop overnight!
AFL followers might remember when Kevin Sheedy had his bombers grab an opponent and hold him up for a sec after they took a mark - they brought in the 50m penalty and the bombers stopped doing it instantly
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...s/?mc=AP210718
Last edited by Messenger; 07-22-2018 at 02:28 PM.
per un PUGNO di DOLLARI
And another one, Dave Moran on Lochinver Art last night just needed to be DQed and we'd never see an inside back row horse deliberately OPS ever again.
I have sent the following email to both HRA's Andrew Kelly and HRV's Brett Day but received no reply
"Can you explain to me why there cannot be a ban on whips but let the drivers carry them as their ‘supposed safety tool’ in case of some supposed emergency"
I have received replies to email from them in the past but not this time.
I think it is because there is no valid reason why the above could not be the policy
It could be brought in slowly:
2yo races in 2019
2yo and 3yo races in 2020
All races in 2021
per un PUGNO di DOLLARI
Just got a reply from Brett Day.
He rightly points out that any decision would have to be a National decision as horses move between states.
He did not rule out 'the whip for emergencies only' suggestion
per un PUGNO di DOLLARI
I don't think we should consider a whip ban until the thoroughbreds do . Their fat padded whip looks far worse than our thin one that can barely be seen on tv . But if it does happen I agree and have suggested before that it should be a gradual introduction as you have suggested.
The way the industry is at the moment I think worrying about the whips is like worrying about the colour of the deck chairs on the Titanic !
Don't die wondering !
You're not the first to point that out to me Rick - it just riles me that HRA have done such a massive back down, diminishing their credibility when it comes to animal welfare, and have achieved ZIP
The 'who cares if I win' fines are a a JOKE
per un PUGNO di DOLLARI
When the fine and penalty doesn't deter people from committing the offense that means it's not harsh enough ! But can we trust our governing body to administer these offenses indiscriminately ?
As far as animal welfare goes HRV are in bed with the RSPCA and most people have lost all respect for the RSPCA after the 4 corners report . So that is a whole new problem.
Don't die wondering !
The New Zealand Cup win with Arden Rooney was case in point, that was horrible to watch, driver said post race the owners will pay the fine
Not sure how "rightly" that actually is Kev, after all horses move between countries in Europe including into and out of Norway which is the only country that has banned the whip.
HRA could make a national rule but has no power to enforce the states to adhere to it, but the states can make a local rule and have their stewards panel enforce it, independent of what occurs in other states. The problem would not be the movement of horses but drivers across jurisdictions, but somehow they manage that in Europe too.
In the interests of animal welfare it would not be in the horses best interest to have a uniform ban on whip use in all states of Australia but preferable to have at least one or two jurisdictions that do retain (restricted) use of the whip. It is a utopic thought to believe that all horses will try sufficiently without more vigourous driving and some limited stimulus with the whip to remain viable members of the racing population. And exiting the racing population may have a much more unsavoury outcome for them then more vigourous driving with a limited whip action would. One of the reasons Norway can race with a whip ban without negative implications for the life of the horse is non trying horses can easily be temporarily or permanently moved to a jurisdiction that permits whip use.
Given that changes to handicapping means that juvenile horses are racing at times against older horses means that a graduated introduction of a whip ban based on age wouldn't work either. However those calling for a whip ban introduction beginning with 2yos are perpetuating the misconception that carriage and use of the whip is only ever to punish horses not to educate them. Using Norway as our whip ban model 2 year old racing is the only level of racing where carriage and (restricted) use of the whip to educate horses for racing is permitted.
As for carriage and use only in emergencies it may be more difficult to police what constitutes an emergency then people may think. Bear in mind Norway race only trotters but we like the United States race pacers, and we race far more tightly then the U.S. or Norway does.
A horse galloping in the field, particularly a pacer wearing hopples, is always a danger to itself, it's driver, and the horses and drivers trailing it. It may fall itself or check others and cause them to fall or their drivers to be unseated. Often the remedy to a horse losing concentration and about to gallop, and only the driver may know it's about to happen is a quick flick with the whip to get the horses mind back on the job and pacing properly again.
It was this response from the recently retired driver now administrator, John Campbell at the last World Trotting Conference to Geoff Wants presentation on banning the whip that stopped progression of the whip ban debate in its tracks.
As for HRAs backdown on animal welfare being embarrassing the real embarrassment was HRAs failure to consult properly with member states and participant bodies, and indeed the industries customers, the punters, before announcing the ban. The greatest threat to the welfare of the industry's horses is a non viable industry.
I understand many of your points Dot
Unless it is a dainty flick the harness whip in action looks bad - we are in business so anything that looks bad has to change
It looks worse for us than the gallops because our whip is 4 times as big - 4 times as visible
If you can't go 'Norwegian' then you have to get serious about enforcing the flick rule - protests and loss of races is one such measure
per un PUGNO di DOLLARI
Posting Permissions