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Thread: Is Ike Frost really the sire of Maori's Idol ?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Stallion Danno is a jewel in the rough
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    Ha ha not required mate!!

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  3. #23
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    With Andrew Kelly having said over 3yrs ago

    "On balance, we will re-visit at a later time."

    see post 10

    I emailed him a reminder 6 weeks ago and getting no reply, I tried again 2 weeks ago

    I am afraid that the HRA CEO will not give me the courtesy of a reply
    The Thin Green Line - Supporting the Rangers who protect the world's endangered animals against poachers

  4. #24
    Junior Member Foal Texas will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by papagayo View Post
    Just a question for a European trotting fan here. Been reading a bit about Maori's Idol here + watching some Youtube videos about him. Looking at his pedigree I wonder about his sire, Ike Frost. Did Ike Frost produce many trotters or was Maori's Idol an exception?
    Chances are that Bank Note was/is the Dad of Maori…. Why do I say this, Well ANYONE can Check it out.....
    Have a good STUDY of the Ike Frost's Progeny, in "Classic Families", and/or HRV's 'Horse Search', and you'll find NO OTHER Trotters bred by him
    (although, ADIOS himself, left a single trotter, (that sort defeats my argument a tad, but Adios' Trotter was out of strong trotting lines)

    Bank Note, WAS a PURE Blue Blooded trotter, capable of breeding a great one like Maori….. and the resemblance is uncanny....My Dad Saw Both an actually quizzed everyone about it at the time….Also Look at the Progeny bred from both Ike Frost and Maori.....Maori has a pretty good stud record with both gaits, Poor old Ike has Bugger all of anything!....Stands to reason in my humble opinion!.....ANYWAYS....don't matter much one way or the other now.....BTW My Father in Law HAD Maori's Wonder (a 1/2 bro to the Great One X DICK ADIOS who did throw a lot of trotters....."Wonder" COULD NOT TROT 2 yards.....Walked on the Pace, as well!)….

  5. #25
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Yes Kevin, the statistical facts and apparently physical appearance suggest Bank Note so if there is the possibility of correcting a (possible) significant mistake in our stud book shouldn't HRA be doing so
    The Thin Green Line - Supporting the Rangers who protect the world's endangered animals against poachers

  6. #26
    Junior Member Foal Texas will become famous soon enough
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    Yes, we all have our theories, some correct others not.....Guess we will never know 100%....ONE FACT was mentioned, that of Maori Miss being A STAR Broodmare, dual gaits, so, FACT IS She could probably leave any quality from ANY Studhorse....
    All the Earlier Trotting Champs say pre 2000, seemed to be by Pacing Stallions, e.g. Scotch Notch and True Roman, later on La Coocheracha, Noopy, and so on...
    Alternatively, GREAT PACERS have come from Trotting/bred Broodmares, French Chef and such.....after all said and done, all the blood is related, back ONLY a "few" years ago, evolutionary wise!....Peter the Great to Peter's Volo, Scott, The Brewer etc. were NOT that long ago!...in real terms.....
    (Granted in latter/recent years, with stallions going to stud as 3 and 4yo's, there appears 'a lot of generations' within the pedigree, to get back to them, but speaking in time, ONLY 100 years, not even that long.
    'Freaks', 'Throw-backs', and "Sports" are all 'normal' in breeding, and then, the "Mutations" and/or "Game-changers" come along....How do WE explain these? Or should WE even Try?
    What Purpose does it really serve to "analyse the Hair off the Superstar", it is NOT as though we can reproduce it....whether it be Adios, Cam, Nukes, Lazarus, C.C. or whomever....That is the "Breeding/thinking backwards" mentality.....
    Must try to BREED FORWARD....aka, The "Where to from Now!?" Method....
    That is to Say, Forward, From Blacks a Fake, Laz, Quinn, Treacherous, Bettor's etc.....using THE GREAT FILLIES and MARES, not the average ones, of any sex...…….
    Time and Breed must move forward!

  7. #27
    Junior Member Foal Ray White will become famous soon enough
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    Very well put.

  8. #28
    Senior Member 3YO Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas View Post
    Yes, we all have our theories, some correct others not.....Guess we will never know 100%....ONE FACT was mentioned, that of Maori Miss being A STAR Broodmare, dual gaits, so, FACT IS She could probably leave any quality from ANY Studhorse....
    All the Earlier Trotting Champs say pre 2000, seemed to be by Pacing Stallions, e.g. Scotch Notch and True Roman, later on La Coocheracha, Noopy, and so on...
    Alternatively, GREAT PACERS have come from Trotting/bred Broodmares, French Chef and such.....after all said and done, all the blood is related, back ONLY a "few" years ago, evolutionary wise!....Peter the Great to Peter's Volo, Scott, The Brewer etc. were NOT that long ago!...in real terms.....
    (Granted in latter/recent years, with stallions going to stud as 3 and 4yo's, there appears 'a lot of generations' within the pedigree, to get back to them, but speaking in time, ONLY 100 years, not even that long.
    'Freaks', 'Throw-backs', and "Sports" are all 'normal' in breeding, and then, the "Mutations" and/or "Game-changers" come along....How do WE explain these? Or should WE even Try?
    What Purpose does it really serve to "analyse the Hair off the Superstar", it is NOT as though we can reproduce it....whether it be Adios, Cam, Nukes, Lazarus, C.C. or whomever....That is the "Breeding/thinking backwards" mentality.....
    Must try to BREED FORWARD....aka, The "Where to from Now!?" Method....
    That is to Say, Forward, From Blacks a Fake, Laz, Quinn, Treacherous, Bettor's etc.....using THE GREAT FILLIES and MARES, not the average ones, of any sex...…….
    Time and Breed must move forward!
    Agree with you. I have purposely not put my two-bobs worth forward on this thread as it has been a topic of conversation for over 4 decades. To cut to the chase, Maori Miss probably could have thrown a good trotter by one of the Carlton Draught Clydesdales.

    One of her fillies that failed in most aspects, but was a champion broodmare, was by the pacing sire Overtrick. Overtrick, who stood for 3 or 4 thousand bucks at Carlton Stud 45 years ago (!) was somewhat underwhelming at stud here considering the expectations. That filly's name was Maori Trump.

    Perhaps we should ask the question "Is Paulsboro really the sire of Noopy Kiosk"? It is a more contemporary question than this topic. Maori's Idol was a strapping, athletic stallion while Ike Frost was on the short side. Bank Note was no oil painting either and I cannot remember any of his trotters being exceptionally pretty.

    As suggested, Maori Miss can take the bulk of the credit for Maori's Idol and the dynasty she created.

  9. #29
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas View Post
    Yes, we all have our theories, some correct others not.....Guess we will never know 100%....ONE FACT was mentioned, that of Maori Miss being A STAR Broodmare, dual gaits, so, FACT IS She could probably leave any quality from ANY Studhorse....
    All the Earlier Trotting Champs say pre 2000, seemed to be by Pacing Stallions, e.g. Scotch Notch and True Roman, later on La Coocheracha, Noopy, and so on...
    Alternatively, GREAT PACERS have come from Trotting/bred Broodmares, French Chef and such.....after all said and done, all the blood is related, back ONLY a "few" years ago, evolutionary wise!....Peter the Great to Peter's Volo, Scott, The Brewer etc. were NOT that long ago!...in real terms.....
    (Granted in latter/recent years, with stallions going to stud as 3 and 4yo's, there appears 'a lot of generations' within the pedigree, to get back to them, but speaking in time, ONLY 100 years, not even that long.
    'Freaks', 'Throw-backs', and "Sports" are all 'normal' in breeding, and then, the "Mutations" and/or "Game-changers" come along....How do WE explain these? Or should WE even Try?
    What Purpose does it really serve to "analyse the Hair off the Superstar", it is NOT as though we can reproduce it....whether it be Adios, Cam, Nukes, Lazarus, C.C. or whomever....That is the "Breeding/thinking backwards" mentality.....
    Must try to BREED FORWARD....aka, The "Where to from Now!?" Method....
    That is to Say, Forward, From Blacks a Fake, Laz, Quinn, Treacherous, Bettor's etc.....using THE GREAT FILLIES and MARES, not the average ones, of any sex...…….
    Time and Breed must move forward!
    But some of us love history and want to know the family tree of stallions, not even necessarily for breeding, people want to know if Lazarus is a son of Bettor's and that Bettor's is a son of Cam's .....
    And some of us would like to know if Maori's is an Ike or a Bank

    It may be impossible to find out but all the claims that ancestry ads make suggest that we may be able to calculate the probability
    No doubt having spent some time as a librarian makes me one of those who likes records to be correct
    It is one of those mysteries that I would love to have solved but I understand that not everybody cares

    As far as breeding goes it is not entirlely about the performance of an entire and forget everything else. Not saying they are not worth a gamble but you want to pay the appropriate stud fee for a yet unproven stallion if he does not come from a strong sire line and an accurate stud book/classicfamilies is the source of such information
    The Thin Green Line - Supporting the Rangers who protect the world's endangered animals against poachers

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