APG SALES Sydney aand Melbourne

[Fan of Jate]

Hi Richard


I breed on a casual basis for the APG sales and also buy yearlings at the sales but I wont give up my day job based on my performance in both areas. I don't think I would breed Western Terror progeny because I don't think he has done a lot in Australia and similar for McArdle. i.e the best horses they have were bred in NZ. I put a reserve on my yearlings and the aim is to cover costs and anything over that is a bonus.


I would be looking at Art Major next time around for breeding-1. because he pulls good prices and 2-he crosses well with my mares. American Ideal would also be looked at.


Mark Purdon has clients with a lot more money than most, so he can afford to pick the best-I cant recall the last time he bought a horse for $10000 hether it be sportswriter or Art Major-but no doubt someone will scour the records and find one. If Sportswriter fails at Perth (unlikely) then I doubt he would get over 50/60 next year. I am not convinced about the quality of mares at Sydney v Melbourne argument. Melbourne mares were probably slightly better.


Most stallions are unproven in Australia so you rely on their USA record. Some experienced breeders are surprised at the low prices achieved for some of the new Stallions who were champions in the USA. If we all went for BD, AM etc where would that leave us? I like to take a risk with a stallion new to the shores as no doubt others do but at some stage you have to get the money up for the right stallion for your mare and if it is Art Major @$13000 then so be it.


This is why I like the doublewestbred system in WA, a Bettors delight/Art Major horse cannot win the bonuses so a breeder/owner can make money back that way if the horse wins or places. It also cuts out people buying good 2 yo and 3yo horses from NZ and coming over trying to win easy money. This is where the 2nd tier stallions who reside in WA come into their own. It is a proven system and well supported, it would not do Mark (post 71) any good though. The Westbred system is also very good. I believe these systems are being closely looked at by those who make major decisions in the industry to help solve some of the problems we have.


And yes Kev, I did listen closely to David James and he was probably alluding to similar type programs/incentives as I have stated in my previous paragraph although I hope the administrators go a bit further than what David James suggested. He also promoted Western Terror no end, so maybe I am wrong on that stallion.

[Messenger]

I can understand why the doublewestbred would have plenty of fans over there Pat

[Fan of Jate]

It is a very good initiative Kev, I am not sure that there is an equivalent anywhere else, maybe one of our members can enlighten us. WASBA have issued a document in readiness for the sales which describes the process.

[Gtrain]

http://www.harnessracing.co.nz/singl...om-2016-figure

Some interesting stallion numbers here. Namely Sportswriter, Sir Lincoln and Sweet Lou. To think Sportswriter served more than Sweet Lou and Art Major surprises me.

[alphastud]

Thanks Trish and Mark and that's unfortunate news re your 2 deceased foals. When you include these loses then it's even more difficult to turn a profit. Hoping that your Bettors foal helps you regain some loses.

As we know, some people are making good money from APG sales. I know someone who purchased a Cullen mare in foal to Bettors for $20k and just sold the colt for over $90k.

Mark starting breeding to sell a few years ago Richard. His 1st one was an American Ideal/Vanston Lady filly that sold at the APG last year. He breed 4 last year but sadly 2 died, not a good year. The other 2 colts will go to APG next year, or he will lease them out because of the sale results in Sydney. He has one mare booked to Bettors this year. The other mares are being retired or sold.

[teecee]

Heaven Rocks goes ok too. Surely have to give them more than 2 years before can make that judgement?

Smashed a good field at Auckland tonight when he finally got the manners sorted to rate 1:53.0 over 1700 metres. A star in the All Stars team.

[alphastud]

Yes Richard, breeding to sell and breeding to keep are two totally different scenarios and I can't argue with the logics behind your proposition
EXCEPT THAT
Everything in my gut tells me that if I want to breed myself an elite racehorse (even if my mare is by ITP) then Bettors Delight would be my sire of first choice
Not saying you shouldn't but I personally don't place a lot of emphasis on crosses.

Thanks Trevor. You've bred some outstanding racehorses and so I appreciate your view. So then we'd definitely like to know more about your thinking on breeding sometime.

I think that breeding is an art and science and so feel more confident when I see more data supporting my view.

[Fan of Jate]

He certainly did Teecee, I wonder what happened at his previous 2 starts?

[alphastud]

Thanks Pat and I agree with you re Art Major, Bettors etc. They are the stallions to breed to if you're selling at the APG sales. They're returning money for their breeders. I've put my top mare to Art Major which would make the progeny a full bro or sis to a +100k winner and a $0 winner.

However, if you're breeding to race then I'd challenge your thinking on stallions like Western Terror and McArdle. The following discussion is for considering a stallion for if you were to breed to race only. - not with the aim to sell at the APG sales .
Western Terror - Did you know that he missed a few seasons (5?) of breeding in Australia? He's only bred around 300 horses of racing age in Australia. And so he hasn't had a chance to compete with Bettors, Art Major etc. as he hasn't served anywhere near the number of mares as those stallions.

Here's my questions to you and anyone else?

What numbers, milestones or achievements or anything else would you like Western Terror to achieve for you to consider him in front of the top tier stallions incl. Bettors, Art Major and Somebeach?

Mark Purdon - no, he's not buying $10k horses however he's purchased at around the $30k mark. Although his clients may have deep pockets, Mark's not buying the most expensive yearlings and they aren't always by the top tier stallions.
He purchased Big Lucy (Badlands Hanover) for under $30k a few years back. Mark's definition of "best" yearling is different and why his not paying top dollar. A friend suggested an interesting strategy for buyers with more money than brains... Don't bother with the Sales Cataloge or asking for expert opinion. Jut sit behind Mark and outbid him.

Thanks for all of your insights and opinions Pat. I like the sound of some aspects of the WA system. I heard that it was working well with the PBD also however before it was unfortunately scrapped.

[arlington]

...Maybe we need to bring back limited stallion books to try and restore some order ????

'smiles'