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Certainly better Brenno, however I reckon clause c) could have given themselves 3 discretionary entries, might not want use all three but the option would be there.Originally Posted by aussiebreno
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=17406
Pretty good imo. It's pretty much alluded the NZ Cup winner will get an invite so hopefully that happens in the future.
Don't know why they are persisting with clause G after this year though.
Certainly better Brenno, however I reckon clause c) could have given themselves 3 discretionary entries, might not want use all three but the option would be there.
Hopefully not! Pick the best two horses. I don't think the NZ Cup should be seen as a heat.
Gee I hope not
How could you hope the NZ Cup winner would get an automatic start after the disgraceful performance of Terror To Love last year , can someone remind Brendan were he finished .
Guaranteeing the winner of a 2 mile stand start race a place in 1mile mobile is so stupid it begs belief.
The MM is a sprint race the NZ CUP is a staying and sure there have been plenty of great horses in the past that can perform just as well at both distances ,their are certainly a lot of good horses that can't.( last year being a perfect example) Can you imagine the Melbourne Cup winner being given an automatic invite to the Oakleigh Plate.
Iv'e gone back and read all the post on this thread and I can't believe the PUSH for a horse who virtually had no mile form ( Terror To Love) to be included in front of one of the best mile horses we have ever seen (Smoken Up)
I notice all these experts have been very quiet about this subject since the MM.
Well Brendan. Leigh, any comments now.???
It says if travel is a concern; I think NZ and WA horses would get the first look in. Most NZ Cup have been invited in the past and acquitted themself well.
In Harness racing the different distances mean a hell of a lot less than in galloping and the M Cup, Oakleigh Plate suggestion was ridiculous - they have virtually 2 different breeding industries and breed some horses to sprint and other horses to stay. We don't do that at all and the form in harness racing pretty much correlates over all distances.
Terror To Love had virtually no form? Winner of NZ Cup beating Smoken Up and then 2nd in the qualifying race; beating Lisagain and Karloo Mick.
3 back pegs is starting to be the place to be. Although Villagem hasn't had much luck at the barriers he is still to win a race since flying home for 3rd from 3 pegs. Karloo Mick is in the same predicament.
Tell me whats better form. Winning the NZ Cup or being beat by Say Gday Lombo?
Running 2nd beaten 8m or running 9th beaten 25m?
Lisagain ran 2nd in a the Coca Cola Amatil but still the failure in the Cordina should have put a line through it.
Terror To Love obviously went well, well below its best to be beaten 40m. The run the week before tells you it is a much better horse than that. So good on HRNSW for the new travel condition!
P.S I was cheering for Karloo Mick once he loomed in the Miracle Mile, I have nothing against him, but had any other horse had his form going into the race I don't think it would have been selected.
Last edited by aussiebreno; 01-04-2012 at 12:04 PM.
Brendan if you look again I said no mile form , To me a 1.58 best winning time is not sufficient form to get an invite.
You are right of course about the two codes being different and the Melbourne Cup, Oakliegh Plate ref was just to make a point.
The reason I don't believe you should use a stand start 2 mile race to invite MM runners goes much deeper than that.
What about a Bleeder that is struggling for form in mobile races , lobs 3 the fence in the NZ cup and gets a split late and wins , what chance does it have in the MM (when it's got to come off a fast gate) and I actually think that could be a factor in T T L this year.( just my own observation)
Over the years there have been plenty of very good horses that look like world beaters sitting back of a slow pace and can unleash a sensational last 400mtrs , but when the speed is on all the way they don't get sighted. That's why I believe it should up to the HRNW panel to use their discretion with a race that is so different to the MM
They can't get it right with the discretion picks though. Make Mine Cullen, Rohan Home etc in recent years.
There is nothing stopping an out of form horse getting an easy run and winning one of the other lead ups either. Yes those other lead ups are over the mile but still the point stands.
I'm not calling for the NZ Cup to be an auto invite. But the way it was written this year I think people assumed the NZ Cup would all but get an invite and that's my main gripe. TTL wasn't going as badly as you wish to suggest. As it was he definetely earnt a spot. Now this year where it says travel I think the NZ Cup winner gets even more certainty. That is better than being in limbo land.
If you owned Terror To Love, after beating Smoken Up in a Group1 grand circuit race you would have to be confused when Smoken Up then got an invite the next day and you didn't. I'm not begrudging Smoken Up an invite, he certaintly deserved one, but TTL connections would have been absolutely filthy and wondering if they'd shagged one of the NSWHRC director wives in the hours they couldn't recall when drinking up after the Cup victory.
Brendan even the Kiwis don't agree with you on this one.
I especially like Michael Guerins comment about Terror To Love having only competed in Stand Starts races so far this season http://www.nzherald.co.nz/racing/new...ectid=10766089
The horse earnt a place anyway. I think that's evidence enough he should have been invited.
Geurin was basically saying it wasn't a issue the NSWHRC didn't like Kiwis, it was an issue there was only 2 discretionary spots and Smoken Up and ITMQ deserved them and the lead races were in place well before the NZ Cup was run and won. Of course those two were in the pecking order above TTL; but if you owned TTL you would still be thinking wtf. The stand start was an after thought near the end of his article.
Really don't get why you posted that article anyway. If you value Geurins opinion that much he says TTL was virtually assured of a spot he just had to catch a plane to Sydney whilst he also says Raglan (the Newcastle Mile winner) did not deserve to start in a Miracle Mile.
Geurin also says the race experience at Menangle would do the horse good. It obviously didn't because his run in the Cordina was well above his run in the Miracle Mile.
But if you value Geurins opinion that much.....well I don't know what to say.
[QUOTE=aussiebreno;14958]The horse earnt a place anyway. I think that's evidence enough he should have been invited.
Geurin was basically saying it wasn't a issue the NSWHRC didn't like Kiwis, it was an issue there was only 2 discretionary spots and Smoken Up and ITMQ deserved them and the lead races were in place well before the NZ Cup was run and won. Of course those two were in the pecking order above TTL; but if you owned TTL you would still be thinking wtf. The stand start was an after thought near the end of his article.
What sort of lame comment is " But if you value Geurins opinion that much..... This bloke is the highest profile harness media personality in NZ and you want to dismiss him.
Funny I don't seem to remember seeing Brendan Bryce being interviewed on Sky or reading any news paper articles penned by this self appointed harness GURU.
[B] The stand start was an after thought near the end of his article So where a piece of vital information (that would influence a M M invite) is located in a article makes a difference You Crack me up Brendan
Really don't get why you posted that article anyway. If you value Geurins opinion that much he says TTL was virtually assured of a spot he just had to catch a plane to Sydney whilst he also says Raglan (the Newcastle Mile winner) did not deserve to start in a Miracle Mile.
The point I posted that article was to show you that people that are aware of FACTS generally know more about the ins and outs of Miracle Mile selection than an Accountant from Wagga Wagga
Do you think it would not be unreasonable to want to have a look at a horse that had not raced from the Mobile in it's previous 5 strs
Geurin also says the race experience at Menangle would do the horse good. It obviously didn't because his run in the Cordina was well above his run in the Miracle Mile.
Has it dawned on you that it is probably because of the concerns the panel had about T.T.L that resulted in the poor MM run?????????
The horse only racing in Stand Start races is a pretty good indication that he has a problem , they have said come over have a run in a lead up race if all's well we'll give him a start.
I believe having that run out of the gate the week before has busted him ( because of his problem) and that would explain the poor MM run.
Last edited by A BIT DUSTY; 01-04-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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