Shortner Pins vs Shoes- where's the distinction??????????

[triplev123]

Menangle 10/09/2011.

RACE 7 – THE NSWOA THANKS ALLIANZ PACE – 1609 METRES

GIRLSNITEOUT raced roughly and galloped approaching the 1400 metre mark. A subsequent inquiry revealed that the offside hopple shortener pin had released prematurely resulting in the mare being placed at a disadvantage and through this GIRLSNITEOUT galloped. Stewards took no furtheraction other than to note the explanation.

Geeze, my heart bleeds for Mitchell, it really does....not. So let me get this straight. One of the shortner pins releases of its own accord before the 1400m and it makes the horse race rough then break & that's no further action taken...but have a horse clearly rip a shoe off and make a break & it's sent back to the trials?????????
Jesus wept! A little bit of consistency here fellas, please.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Menangle 10/09/2011.

RACE 7 – THE NSWOA THANKS ALLIANZ PACE – 1609 METRES

GIRLSNITEOUT raced roughly and galloped approaching the 1400 metre mark. A subsequent inquiry revealed that the offside hopple shortener pin had released prematurely resulting in the mare being placed at a disadvantage and through this GIRLSNITEOUT galloped. Stewards took no furtheraction other than to note the explanation.

Geeze, my heart bleeds for Mitchell, it really does....not. So let me get this straight. One of the shortner pins releases of its own accord before the 1400m and it makes the horse race rough then break & that's no further action taken...but have a horse clearly rip a shoe off and make a break & it's sent back to the trials?????????
Jesus wept! A little bit of consistency here fellas, please.

Have not seen the race VVV but if a shortener comes out without being pulled it is often very clear on the video as it is flapping around, similar to a broken carrying strap or connector or hopple loopin each of those cases there is usually no action against the horse. If a galloping horse breaks a hopple loop, connector or carrying strap it will be warned or go back to trials. It is a case of which occurs first.

In the case of the shoe argument there is often a doubt which comes first the gallop or the trod on shoe even it that circumstance the argument can be run that if it got on a shoe before it galloped its a gating issue and the horse should trial.

I have to be honest and you will no doubt disagree but you are not comparing apples with apples I see consistency here the circumstances are different.

[aussiebreno]

Double cheeseburgers = good. Double standards......not so good.

[triplev123]

No, we'll not neccessarily disagree.
Rather, I just want to know exactly what is deemed to be a gear malfunction/breakage and exactly what is not?
I've seen Stewards let breaks slide by way of a host of things including dislodged poles, dropped knee & tendon boots, hopples, loose shortner pins, head checks, slipped cruppers etc, and even as far as loose or snapped tongue ties for crying out loud...the list goes on.
I take it that a horse's shoes are not deemed by Stewards to be part of its gear then ?
So if a horse throws a shoe then breaks as a result how is that any different to it breaking hopples or a head check or a pole etc etc etc?
Is it any different in your eyes? I'm willing to be convinced. Over to you, VOR.

Incidentally, what's the shortner pin still doing in place a furlong after release point anyway? They're there to help a horse balance in the score up, not all the way to the 1/4 pole.

[Thevoiceofreason]

I think we have to assume that the stewards have more aids than we do in relation to video coverage.

It really is a case of what comes first the chicken or the egg it is not an exact science and every racing judge or book on the law will tell you that every case has to be judged on its own facts and circumstances.

For mine the shoe argument holds no water if they get on a shoe and gallop no brainier back to the trials or a warning depending on the record of the horse.

If it can be proven and sometimes it can that the horse lost a shoe and then galloped sometime later in the race there may be an argument that it is a gear malfunction but I agree it is not black and white, then again so few things in stewarding are.

More and more horses have their pins left in for a longer period of time after the start now some until they negotiate the first turn that is up to the driver this was within the first 200m was it not . No great drama there well not for mine and yes like it or not Mitchell has to be treated just like all the rest., we both know that.

[triplev123]

I think we have to assume that the stewards have more aids than we do in relation to video coverage.

[VVV] That mainly being pretty crappy resolution on an apparently cheap plasma TV. I've seen it. Either I've got macular degeneration or glaucoma or something...or it's crook.

It really is a case of what comes first the chicken or the egg it is not an exact science and every racing judge or book on the law will tell you that every case has to be judged on its own facts and circumstances.
[VVV] You sound like a mate of mine who's a Law Talkin' Guy.

For mine the shoe argument holds no water if they get on a shoe and gallop no brainier back to the trials or a warning depending on the record of the horse.
[VVV] That's all well and good and I don't neccessarily disagree. My issue lies with the inconsistent application thereof.

If it can be proven and sometimes it can that the horse lost a shoe and then galloped sometime later in the race there may be an argument that it is a gear malfunction but I agree it is not black and white, then again so few things in stewarding are.
[VVV] True enough on all counts.

More and more horses have their pins left in for a longer period of time after the start now some until they negotiate the first turn that is up to the driver this was within the first 200m was it not .
[VVV] I've been around a lot of horses. If they truly need such aids to balance them up enough to get around the Menangle 1st turn without breaking despite being realeased a furlong up the straight before the winning post...then they must be some of the foulest gaited things around..and that mare's not. I've seen her go up close, she has a pretty great gait to my eye. I don't like Jenna's Beach Boy as a sire, by and large they're awful horses, but I think that she's that nice a mare I'd have her as a broodmare in a heartbeat. If she needs pins in to get to the 1/4 pole at Menangle...I'll eat my old lawn mowing shoes.

No great drama there well not for mine and yes like it or not Mitchell has to be treated just like all the rest., we both know that.
[VVV] True enough again. No doubt that will come as quite a shock to him.

Keep well. VVV