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Thread: New Handicapping system for NSW (3mth trial)

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    New Handicapping system for NSW (3mth trial)

    http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia...News---June-19

    To begin in 2 wks time, the keys to the system are:

    * Horses placed in races based on stakemoney earned at their past five starts.
    * Barrier draws done within those races based on stakemoney earned at past five starts.
    * Up to six levels of races with staggered stakemoney down from level one to six.
    * 20 per cent discount on stakemoney earned for mares to aid them in barrier draws
    * 20 per cent discount on stakemoney earned for pacers when driven by concession drivers to aid them in barrier draws
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  2. #2
    Senior Member 4YO Fan of Jate will become famous soon enough
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    Our members are very quiet on this one. I am wondering where all the horses have suddenly come from based on David Aiken's statement. At one stage we were running out of horses here in Australia.
    This will stay in regardless, an organisation does not spend time developing a system, and then removing it if it is a cockup even if it was another group that provided the idea. That is admitting failure. I will await the results of the trial with baited breath. There are some good points in it. I note that non racing revenue is not mentioned or being used as a quantifiable assessment point. Addington NZ seems to be doing well based on Articles regarding their financial performance so that is something to compare it to.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Stallion Showgrounds is just really nice Showgrounds is just really nice
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan of Jate View Post
    Our members are very quiet on this one. I am wondering where all the horses have suddenly come from based on David Aiken's statement. At one stage we were running out of horses here in Australia.
    This will stay in regardless, an organisation does not spend time developing a system, and then removing it if it is a cockup even if it was another group that provided the idea. That is admitting failure. I will await the results of the trial with baited breath. There are some good points in it. I note that non racing revenue is not mentioned or being used as a quantifiable assessment point. Addington NZ seems to be doing well based on Articles regarding their financial performance so that is something to compare it to.
    You might get a differing view from NZ horsemen. Ask Mark Jones, who is in QLD with Delightful Memphis. Here, the 3yo filly was classed a C2 before winning Saturday night - her seventh win.

    In NZ she is rated open class, due primarily from being Spanish Armada's bridesmaid on 10 occasions. I can only see horses such as her as being penalised for being consistent but not even winning . Can't see that being great for owners, OK for punters may be.

  4. #4
    Senior Member 4YO Fan of Jate will become famous soon enough
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    This is the problem with kiwi trainers/owners and others, they are whingeing before it has even started and in another country....total. Since when does anyone coming into another country have the right to complain about whats on offer?

    Coming 2nd in races worth $120,000, whats the problem ? the horse is 3 y/o and won $260,000. Then coming over here and racing in the same class as horses who have raced against much lesser opposition here in Australia but will have won about the same prizemoney as it. This is where this system may fall down. A very good horse but trainers/owners still want the low hanging fruit not once but twice- in NZ and then over here.

    If owners dont like the NSW system DM would be better off in WA with their new system being introduced where only wins are recognised regardless of who you raced against in NZ or NSW or any other place.
    Last edited by teecee; 07-02-2017 at 07:05 PM. Reason: Inappropriate language removed

  5. #5
    Senior Member Stallion Showgrounds is just really nice Showgrounds is just really nice
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    ???

    You misread my comments. In NZ, Delightful Memphis is rated at 102, which puts her in open class against the likes of Lazarus if there are no suitable fillies races. In Australia, she landed as a C2 based on her 6 lifetime wins. No bloody wonder her connections where keen to get her over here! The bulk of her stakes has been earned running second to Spanish Armada. You'd be hard pressed convincing me the NZ system benefits horses or owners once they are out of their age group.

    Regardless of what she has earned, DM is a C2 based on wins. As a 3yo filly, connections are entitled to compete against her own age and sex. That is now a very limited option for her in NZ.

    The disappointing aspect in Australia is, once again, it appears the states are taking an "every man for themselves" approach. Are we lacking a national, coordinated approach?

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    If we were to be optimistic, maybe one of the states will get it right and the national body will become just that and convince the others to follow suit
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  7. #7
    Member Gelding Sofoulis will become famous soon enough
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    I'm looking forward to seeing the system roll out in NSW. I think it is a sound move making it a trial as amendments can be made without having to admit a "cock-up" as Pat put it.

    The mismatch between NZ and AU racing classes has been around forever. As has the mismatch between AU and US. This system will bring us more in line with the US where horses appear to race competitively for a longer time, resulting in a lower level of horse turnover.

    In respect of Trevor's comments on each state taking a different approach, I agree this is not ideal - we could end up with the AU / NZ class anomaly being also an intra-Australia anomaly, but surely common sense will prevail whereby if the system works in one state, it will likely be adopted by other states (and hopefully quickly).

  8. #8
    Senior Member 4YO Fan of Jate will become famous soon enough
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    Under condition 3 in the HR NSW introduction document for the new system it states that horses in the lower classes have to have had 4 starts in NSW before being allowed to enter those level of races so this will impact again on some horses owners/trainers trying to get some low hanging fruit. This rule should help lower class NSW horses I would think. Maybe others will be able to engage on this one, but if the trainers all like it as suggested by HR NSW then it is staying. The assessment of deliveries on this new system will be the tricky point. Results have to be clear and transparent. NSW harness have got stacks of money/resources so it should stand up.

    My frustration is with the National Body and their inability to tie it all together as suggested by others. WA will have a different system soon and other states may be locked into their handicapping system. Good luck with that.

  9. #9
    Senior Member 4YO Fan of Jate will become famous soon enough
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    Wont happen in Queensland- couple of horses from NZ picked up some easy money on Saturday night- one in the Premiers cup race 6 ,The More the bettor which has won $460,000 in NZ and raced against Queensland horses that were luck to have won $40k each.

    In race 8 the provincial Oaks, Partyon a winner of $500k (mostly at Menangle) won that race easily, the beaten favourite (mentioned in post #5) also from NZ who had won $270k- the average earnings of the other horses in this race (all from NZ- gee whiz!!) was about Malcom Turnbulls weekly spending money $20k.

    Guess who the trainer was?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Stallion Showgrounds is just really nice Showgrounds is just really nice
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    I have a theory as to why the best horses seem to win.

    It's because they are better! Have a look at Partyon's record, Pat. She won the Harness Jewells and Breeders Crown as a 2yo as well as the NSW Oaks and NZ Northern Oaks. Despite her brilliant record, it would be fair to say nobody would argue that she is a better filly than Spanish Armada. More the Better, NZ 2yo Colt of the year but has not gone on as well as 3yo as Ultimate Machete (earlier in the season) or Vincent. With another Derby and Oaks up for grabs, is it better for the struggling QLD harness racing industry to attract horse of their calibre to boost the image of its premier carnival?

    Successful NZ juveniles get penalized by their handicapping system. They end up staying in NZ racing in a limited number of open class races or going to Australia or the US.

    So, enlighten me. What is to be gained by changing our handicapping system(s) to the advantage of lesser horses?

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