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As Zipper said there's no right or wrong. But people have an opinion on what they like and don't like and the way i see it you can take it or leave it and just hope at the end of the day you are happy with your choice.
I've got to say, the whole linebreeding/outcrossing thing is a fair bit of a wank IMO and I say that because there have been & are many examples of either approach producing top class racehorses.
Further to that, what focussing solely on either approach also commits is the age old crime of producing bits of paper that comply with theory... instead of taking into account the likely outcome of a mating between the flesh & blood individuals before you.
Studs & Stallion Owners have their own ideas of course but they have pretty much always given tacit and at times active approval to virtually any horse breeding theory that there has ever been...linebreeding, outcrossing, duplicating female lines, cycle breeding, magic crystals, skip three times round the toadstools and throw a dart, all the fun of the Fair, all the bullshit under the Sun, because by doing so they don't alient a potential customer who might hold one or more of those approaches dear. That I can understand.
Breeding Consultants however, by and large they're just theoretically obsessed Charlatans who, if you were look into their backgrounds, more often than not have never once aimed up with their own razoos and produced so much as a single horse worth a feed. That does not however stop them offering to reveal to you, in return for a fee, that which you could just as easily find out for yourself.
Like Chuck D & Flavor Flav from Public Enemy said....Don't believe the hype.
As Zipper said there's no right or wrong. But people have an opinion on what they like and don't like and the way i see it you can take it or leave it and just hope at the end of the day you are happy with your choice.
I still think there are rights and there are wrongs Mango however they're no great mystery in terms of basic livestock breeding principles.
Horses are the same as Cattle, Sheep, Dogs, Pigs, Goats and every other animal that has come under any form of reproductive selection pressure from Humans.
It's all about form and function.
I've always regarded non-Meadowskipper lined horses as outcrosses personally. Meadowskipper is so dominant - like Northern Dancer/Mr Prospector is with the gallopers.
Mango,
Breeding to sell in the current environment is almost pointless.
I have bought 4 horses from the APG sales the last 2 years in a row and none of the vendors would have made a return on any of them. All of these horses are extremely well bred and excellent types (of course, otherwise I wouldn't have bought them!), why would you bother wasting your time breeding to sell.
It is always interesting however, to wait to and see which freshman sires ending up becoming proven.....
"Before you judge someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you judge them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes." Zen Guide to Life
Triple,
I agree the hype that comes with any stud or stallion is always a load of bull-dust.
However, I am convinced that taking a common sense, simple and practical approach to some theories can actually yield a much better outcome. As a young naive rookie I got sucked in by the hype and tried to complicate the hell out breeding when I first started and it cost me a fortune.
There are plenty of people who make a living out of providing advice or so called expertise that one can find out for themselves and breeding consultants are by no means the worst!!
"Before you judge someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you judge them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes." Zen Guide to Life
Hi Zipper
I can see your point about breeding to sell and i've been thinking about it for a while, i can see why people don't breed and just buy from the sale's as breeding cost's do blow out. You have the service fee, cost to be served, agistment, foaling down, weaning, race series payment's and then the prep for the sale so really at the end of the day for all your hard work and $$$$ that go into it you don't make what you should. There are also so many risks involved before even getting a yearling to the sale. On the other hand i do like seeing them born and raised and watching them go through the sale.
G'day Zipper,
Breeding to sell is hard these days...but it has always been hard. In some instances I expect that the changes that have taken place here in NSW will make it somewhat easier demand wise however, as always, there'll be $$$ for the best or those perceived to be the best, and not much for the rest.
I sold my 1st one in the APG in 1993 and it was no different back then than it is today. Quality sold well back then as it had always done to that point and always did from there on and will continue to do so forever...while the rest will produce results that range through from reasonable to poor to at times, awful. Good ones can & do slip through the net at times with seemingly well bred, well made yearlings not bringing as much as you'd think they should have and there'll others with far lesser credentials bringing much more than you'd think anyone in their right mind would be prepared to spring for. I tried for years to work it out but ultimately gave up trying to reconcile the anomalies, you'll drive yourself mad and never get an answer.
Others no doubt have variations on the basic theme but there are 4 things you definitely need in place...and there's a 5th & a 6th that are highly desirable if you're going to have one sell well.
(1) It has to be by a sire the buyers want, (2) it has to be from a successful immediate maternal family, (3) it has to be well made, (4) it has to have some size about it, (5) probably best if it is a Colt and (6) if it has a sibling or siblings that are also racing at the time sale day rolls around then that's about as good as you can get it. If the Planets align and all that's in place when the Hammer starts to fall, while there are no guarantees the chances are you'll probably have a good day.
Sire hype wise, there are a number that are very much deserving of praise and they tend to be by far the cheapest ones to advertise as they generate their own hype by way of doing what they're meant to do...siring winners.
In fact I've found in the vast majority of instances that the truthfulness and accuracy of the advertising afforded a sire is very much directly proportional to the actual level of confidence connections have in its future. It's a window to their soul that they've inadvertently left open, one which gives you a valuable heads up if you know where to look for the signs. Basically the more that they stretch the truth, the more foot loose & fancy free they've flown with the facts in the advertising, the lesser the animal tends to be and the lesser the impact you can reasonably expect it to have.
any investment that can yield 20+% over 12 months is going to be high risk and hard work...
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