Roll With Joe
+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 48

Thread: Where are the 2yo's ?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year gutwagon will become famous soon enough gutwagon's Avatar
    Real Name
    Rick Mckinley
    Location
    Melbourne
    Occupation
    Dreamer
    Posts
    735
    Horses
    Peaces Of You, Final Peace.
    It amazes me how people will pay so much for a yearling at the APG sales. If you were to offer the same horse for sale on the trading ring you would be lucky to get a third of the money.
    Since the APG sales started up foals being bred numbers have dropped every year, possibly a coincidence but I believe the fact that the sale only accepts mainly progeny of the top stallions many breeders are discouraged by the huge service fees and just give up. In my opinion race series for sales graduates only are not helping the breeding industry overall . Sure the top breeders may benefit but the majority loose out.
    With the over inflated prices at these sales and sustaining fees, around 80% of buyers will not get their money back and possibly be lost to the industry.
    Don't die wondering !

  2. #32
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year arlington will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Wayne Hayes
    Posts
    787
    Quote Originally Posted by alphastud View Post
    Thanks Kevin and Wayne.
    Wayne - my question was mainly to understand the market sentiment for RWJ at the APG sales and you've somehow interpreted that into something untoward. Sorry if you or the owner / breeders were offended as that wasn't the intent of the question.
    Congratulations to the connections of Major Roll and I hope that he wins many more when not racing us.

    The other reasons for the question was a few fold. I wanted to highlight that good horses can come from anywhere and Major Roll is such an example. See also Ultimate Art who was purchased for around $5k at the Bathurst sale and has won over $500k.
    I doubt that many could recommended breeding Courlivia however it's great that she was bred and has produced a potential star in Major Roll. I want to know understand why this breeding worked given the lack (apparent) of quality in the dam line.

    Re - Non-sales based futurities : Aren't the NSW Breeders Challenge, Vicbred, Bathurst Gold Crown etc. non-sales based futurities? And I think that you can make your yearling APG eligible without running them through the sale. What if we had an owner / breeder futurity?

    There are some concerning downward trends in HR which includes breeding. The current incentives / futurities haven't solved the problem. Currently, we have a small crop of young racehorses taking the lion's share of the prizemoney.
    What % of racing 2YO's won over $10k in the 2017 season? At the end of this season, what % of 3YO's will have won $15k LTS?
    Handicappers could help by offering more races with 0 LTW however they have a conundrum due to the racehorse population. They have to combine fillies / colts and horses that have won races. Fillies get preferential draw and so your colt / gelding is often disadvantaged.
    Thanks for dotting my i's and crossing my t's Richard. I did write Non sales futurity, yes, that means sales horses aren't eligible. And yes you can enter the APG series if you pay fees of over $6000 if you want to compete against the quality of horses my suggestion is trying to avoid so I don't know where you're going with that.

    When you pose What if we had an owner / breeder futurity? you are on the same page as me, that is, sale's horses would not be eligible?

    Part of my point was I believe the APG concept can be more than a bit counterproductive (it seems Rick is also suggesting that) in increasing breeding, hence 2yo, numbers.

    The owner/breeder race/series I think we're both getting at Richard doesn't have to be a futurity. I used the Vic Home Grown Series as an example, which really isn't a futurity, other than paying your once yearly Vicbred fee. As Rick has alluded to a lot of people are getting sick or wary of futurity payments. Obviously I'm not talking of a race series with prize money levels comparable with APG, Sires/Breeders Challenge or Breeders Crown. In Vic's case HRV could see fit to incentivise smaller breeder/owners to breed without the disincentive of futurity payments by using the Home Grown Series. Afterall, they aren't scared to change it's conditions.
    It has the hallmarks of what I've proposed, "Home Grown", prize money won conditions, introduced for horses unlikely to win/have won the APG, Vic Sires or even Breeders Crown, but it's timing lends itself to APG sales graduates heading to the APG races and it's also run before the Sires Series and Breeders Crown. It's objective is defeated before it's run! Huge question marks.

    I'm declaring I have no ulterior motives nor current pecuniary interest in my questioning of the Vic Home grown Series but I hope others and HRV could see why I question it in the way I have. edit: Might it be a concern to HRV I, and other potential or dormant breeders, don't have a pecuniary interest?

    If Rick's reading this, do you know the reason why the eligibility prize money earned was raised form $6000 to $10,000 for the Vic Home Grown series?

    I just remembered, it may have been on the podcast Shannon Nixon used to produce with Brett Coffey. Shannon being Harness Breeders Vic vice president, Brett secretary of same body and also with Alabar. There was some discussion involving the dominance of certain sires and how that might be setting the industry back. Shannon suggested, perhaps relaying other's thoughts, that a race/series might be established for progeny of sires with service fee under a certain level. Considering the background of both these guys it was heartening to hear that aired. It didn't get a big run but it would seem people similar to, and including, yourself Richard aren't completely against the type of thing we're looking at here. But heartening and fruition are worlds apart.

    I couldn't agree with a concept that rues out certain sires as everyone knows not all mating's result in a champ. People who spend that sort of money on a stallion still should have a chance to recover costs. But the boys might have also been looking at redistributing the patronage of stallions, hence the health of the breeding industry.

    I think they used to have a segment, 'bricks or bouquets', something like that. Bouquets to them for having a look.
    Last edited by arlington; 02-05-2018 at 07:43 AM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year KTQ will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Katie Howlett
    Location
    dubya eh
    Posts
    565
    Horses
    Jack Mac, Sugar Street
    Renaissance Man one won a trial yesterday. Also ran, a Panpacificflight

  4. #34
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kevin O'Donoghue
    Location
    The Gap
    Occupation
    Retired
    Posts
    14,029
    Horses
    A long, long time ago
    The $20k Premiere Stakes at Melton tonight only has 7 runners but features 6 different sires of interest

    http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?m...rc=MXM09021809
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  5. #35
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kevin O'Donoghue
    Location
    The Gap
    Occupation
    Retired
    Posts
    14,029
    Horses
    A long, long time ago
    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    The $20k Premiere Stakes at Melton tonight only has 7 runners but features 6 different sires of interest

    http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?m...rc=MXM09021809
    Drawn the pole and lead, Carribean's boy turns the tables on the odds on pop and a Manning 2yo pays $52 !
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  6. #36
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kevin O'Donoghue
    Location
    The Gap
    Occupation
    Retired
    Posts
    14,029
    Horses
    A long, long time ago
    Last night we had a 2yo at only its 2nd start sent out $1.30 fav and beaten
    Tonight we had a 2yo at only its 2nd start sent out $1.20 fav and beaten
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  7. #37
    Senior Member Colt alphastud will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Richard .
    Location
    NSW, AUSTRALIA
    Occupation
    1300 078 237
    Posts
    113
    Horses
    TIGER TARA NZ $3,500, LIVE OR DIE USA
    Rollin With Holly and Muscle Factory both win first up at Newc and Menangle.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year gutwagon will become famous soon enough gutwagon's Avatar
    Real Name
    Rick Mckinley
    Location
    Melbourne
    Occupation
    Dreamer
    Posts
    735
    Horses
    Peaces Of You, Final Peace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    Last night we had a 2yo at only its 2nd start sent out $1.30 fav and beaten
    Tonight we had a 2yo at only its 2nd start sent out $1.20 fav and beaten
    I think the small fields contributed to the very short prices Kevin, but good value if you picked the winner.
    Don't die wondering !

  9. #39
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kevin O'Donoghue
    Location
    The Gap
    Occupation
    Retired
    Posts
    14,029
    Horses
    A long, long time ago
    Michael Stanley had 5 fillies in the 3 APG heats for the 2yo's at Melton tonight (5 of the 20 contestants is a healthy 25%)
    2 of them started favourite and were both very green but while Single Tree Road still managed to win
    Soho Nolita - Soho Tribeca's half sis, was just too wayward
    Single Tree Road was most impressive as he did plenty wrong to the extent that his stablemate coming around to give him cover was of little assistance (call me suspicious but I reckon he knew he was coming too) but he knuckled down in the straight

    First and second in the first of the heats (R9) were very impressive too

    http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fie...ic#MXM07041807
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  10. #40
    Super Moderator Stallion Richard prior will become famous soon enough Richard prior's Avatar
    Real Name
    Richard Prior
    Location
    Sydney
    Occupation
    Gas Operator
    Posts
    1,516
    Horses
    Intransit
    They are green alright, Massive run by Fiscal Fantasy

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts