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Thread: Attn: VVV/VOR - Your thoughts

  1. #11
    triplev123
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    Gear Person indeed. Excellent suggestion. Like immediate on-course TC02 Testing however, I suspect that would be far too simple a solution Flashing.

  2. #12
    Flashing Red
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    I'm not sure if it is stubborness, indifference or the fact that these simple solutions are disagreed with by the powers to be. It's just many of these "solutions" have been in use for years in North America with success, it's not like we are treading into unknown territory here.

  3. #13
    triplev123
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    That's pretty much right on the money Flashing.
    I think it's a combination of basic stubborness & indifference and it is added to in no small way by a straight up knowledge gap of subjects at hand.
    For years and years there has been an inexplicable administrative desire to either mark time or to otherwise rush to the other extreme & attempt to completely re-invent the wheel...this rather than simply looking around to see what's already being done with significant degrees of success & adopting it.
    Unfortunately this applies to so many aspects of Harness Racing in this country including but by no means limited to Handicapping, Track Size/Design, Race Bikes, Race Day Procedures & Processes-eg. the use of on-course pre & post race TC02's, a gear person etc, the seemingly Taboo area of establishing a series of thresholds for a designanted list of theraputic substances, an almost total lack of emphasis being placed on fillies & mares racing opportunities, the continued reluctance to address significant broodmare husbandy issues present in the industry etc. Things can always be done better, sometimes in large ways, other times in small ways. Standing still however, IMO that is the prelude to going backwards.
    Last edited by triplev123; 10-19-2011 at 02:51 PM. Reason: bad spelling

  4. #14
    Senior Member 4YO Thevoiceofreason has a spectacular aura about
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashing Red View Post
    I'm not sure if it is stubborness, indifference or the fact that these simple solutions are disagreed with by the powers to be. It's just many of these "solutions" have been in use for years in North America with success, it's not like we are treading into unknown territory here.
    COST.... six weeks ago when HRNSW was looking for a way forward and they started talking up new swabbing practices that would cost a little more the states leading trainer Paul Fitzpatrick bagged them in the press for spending money that is his view should have been spent on prize money.

    Everybody wants integrity but on one wants to pay for it.

    There is only one reason a gear person is not and will not be at every meeting in NSW " COST", it is only recently the Newcastle was downgraded from a three man stewards panel to two compare that with other states but it is all about "COST"

  5. #15
    Flashing Red
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    I'm sorry, cost is NOT an excuse for integrity after they sold Harold Park. Period. If they can afford prize money increases, and make announcements such as building on course barns at Menangle and totally rebuilding the stabling complex etc - then they can afford to spend money on something such as one person's wage to check gear, if they chose to.

    How much money that is spent on testing should NOT be left up to the participants. Talk about conflict of interest!

  6. #16
    triplev123
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    G'day Bill,

    Firstly, in Paul's defence, I think his comments were largely taken out of context. He was suggesting that HRNSW work smarter within their existing testing budget, not simply throw $$$ at it with a knee-jerk swab everything that moves, regardless approach. Furthermore, I totally agree with him.
    The fact we now have the 2hrs on-course prior to race time in place and up to 2hrs post race retention for TC02 testing etc. has largely (and it should be noted has not expensively but SMARTLY) dealt with the main issue that was at hand. Let's face it too by the way, there was to a large extent, not a whole lot that was wrong with the previous testing regime only it was apparently being subverted by way of direct human intervention/interference.

    Secondly, on the subject of Gear there Bill, are you confident that Stewards are in fact able to identify various pieces of gear by sight and that they also understand their function/why it is they're being used/not used/added/taken away?
    I quite freely admit that while I've been around horses virtually all my life, now & again there are still pieces of gear that pop up that I've never seen before & have absolutely no idea as to why they're being used.
    Sometimes it's a simple case of back to the future. Everything old is new again.
    For example, in this case I knew what it was straight away but only because years ago we had a horse that raced in one...I saw a very old piece of gear just the other day...it was an all-leather running head check & complete with brass rings. It must have been at least 40 years old, maybe more.
    Ok, that's a fairly obvious one I guess but the point is some Trainers still have such old school things, stuff that's even more obscure again, in their tack arsenals and from time to time they use them and I'll bet London to a Brick that few people, if any...notice. As such, it does no good whatsoever to have all of these thoroughly & perfectly noted & lodged gear forms if in fact nobody has much of an idea if any or all of that noted thereupon is actually present.
    Currently, if someone were to have a bit of villain in them then I suspect they could fairly easily & effectively fiddle around with a horse's gear enough that they could improve or retard its performance...depending on their desired approach to a given race. Token gestures such as fining a bloke $50 a time for not having a current gear form lodged don't cut it.
    Rule Of The Week didn't work for Greg Hartley either.
    I wonder, what would the cost of On Course TC02 Testing and a Gear Person actually be...as opposed to the current cost of Testing & the perennial nonsense that is Gear Form lodgement.
    Last edited by triplev123; 10-19-2011 at 02:02 PM.

  7. #17
    Flashing Red
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    Quote Originally Posted by triplev123 View Post
    I wonder, what would the cost of On Course TC02 Testing and a Gear Person actually be...as opposed to the current cost of Testing & the perennial nonsense that is Gear Form lodgement.
    I agree. Most of the suggestions I see on this forum would save money in the long run. If everything is all about "COST" then wouldn't saving money be a positive?

  8. #18
    Senior Member 3YO strong persuader has a spectacular aura about strong persuader's Avatar
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    Reminds me of a meeting a long time ago where a trainer/driver gets called to the room and faces allegations of running and handling in the race. After some time, he comes out without any charges being laid but is quite upset about it and promptly walked up to his next drive in the marshalling yard and proclaims, "So they reckon I pulled that one up, I'll show them how you pull one up." He promptly shortened the horses headcheck by around 8 holes and consequently a very favoured horse never ran comfortably and ran a well beaten sixth. To make it even more interesting, he never even got called to the room after the race!
    You don't have to be in the game before long before you hear stories of how easy it is to get one beat if you want it that way. And I'll wager that only the most astute eye would pick up on some of them.
    There is, or used to be, provision for a check steward who was required to ensure that all drivers and horses were geared up with correct and safe gear, so a gear person would only be an extension of that job, but needs an experienced person who is familiar with most of the assorted items that can be hung on a horse at times.
    Warning: Horses are expensive, addictive, and may impair the ability to use common sense.

  9. #19
    triplev123
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    I don't know exactly what the cost of collection, transport & testing of samples actually runs to for the TC02's at just one track, let's take the biggest & best show of them all in Menangle for example...at peak they're going forward three times a week Mon-Tues-Sat...however if an analyser suitable for the purpose only costs in the vicinity of 30k to purchase outright and it is expected to last at least 8 years before needing to be upgraded (that's around $3,750 a year) then unless the associated costs of staffing it are absolutely horrendously prohibitive, which they would certainly not be (I have a pretty good idea what the guys & girls on the benches at the various Labs here in Sydney get paid) then I expect it would be a very attractive option. It requires some extensive head withdrawal from the sand however.

  10. #20
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashing Red View Post
    I'm sorry, cost is NOT an excuse for integrity after they sold Harold Park. Period. If they can afford prize money increases, and make announcements such as building on course barns at Menangle and totally rebuilding the stabling complex etc - then they can afford to spend money on something such as one person's wage to check gear, if they chose to.

    How much money that is spent on testing should NOT be left up to the participants. Talk about conflict of interest!
    Not totally rebutting this but one thing to remember is NSWHRC got the Harold Park money whilst HRNSW is the state body making such decisions.

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