Lis Mara

[Flashing Red]

I've been given a tip that his yearlings (now 2yos) have broken in huge (in NA), and while I do not know for sure, I believe there has been a sudden pick up in bookings because of it down here. We have one, a foal at the moment, with the longest legs! He is going to be one big boy! Obviously it is way to early to know his ability, but it is always good to know, with NA how for the most part they are few months in front, that they are going good.

[triplev123]

He had extreme high speed and a slick gait to go with it so if he passes that on he's 3/5ths of the way there.
They didn't sell that well, so maybe some people got some bargains. You've gone entirely the other way from Jereme's Jet there Flashing.
On paper, Lis Mara was all about aged performance, he did little if anything as a juvenile (that was not his fault though). If Erv Miller's crew hadn't taken him from the hands of those that originally had him & got Brian Sears in the bike, we may well never have seen what he was actually capable of doing.

[Neil]

I saw his very quick time on DVD and he sure was tough. Must succeed I think and be another Live or Die

[Flashing Red]

He had extreme high speed and a slick gait to go with it so if he passes that on he's 3/5ths of the way there.
They didn't sell that well, so maybe some people got some bargains. You've gone entirely the other way from Jereme's Jet there Flashing.
On paper, Lis Mara was all about aged performance, he did little if anything as a juvenile (that was not his fault though). If Erv Miller's crew hadn't taken him from the hands of those that originally had him & got Brian Sears in the bike, we may well never have seen what he was actually capable of doing.

I did a "turnaround" because
a) it's one thing to be an aged champion
b) it's another to be a grand circuit champion
c) at 3 he was chasing home Rocknroll Hanover, an absolute champion, every big race (just like American Ideal, and he's had a number of nice horses his first crop). That year's 3yos really were a vintage crop, and he didn't disgrace himself. IMHHHHHHO, I wouldn't call his 3yo season as "not doing anything", but I will concede his 2yo season. Jereme's Jet had the sickness excuse, you look at Lis Mara's race record and he was chasing home Rocknroll Hanover and didn't disgrace himself You can never know for sure if sickness was the real reason, can you?

A good 2yo in Australia can earn 200-400k and how many times have you seen them, at 3, get caught up to? The good 2yos are forward horses, better built and mentally more mature than their peers. IMHO this is why a number of outstanding 2yos, while good at 3, are not as dominant - their peers catch up.
A good grand circuit horse can earn 300k-500k a season for a number of seasons. They are like a cash registers. Why not breed one for the Derbies that can hopefully be a grand circuit star to boot.

I don't want a horse that's only good for 1-2 seasons. I want one that continues on with the job as a grand circuit horse Not saying Jereme's Jets won't do that, but will take a "wait and see" approach. Have not heard one bad thing about his progeny, which is a good sign.

I also noticed Lis Mara's didn't sell as well. But they weren't as dismall as Tell Alls (not a complete surprise due to his sire but I thought he would sell better than he did). I'm not too sure about Cambest for Lis Mara, but his maternal line is very strong. Only time will tell!

[triplev123]

G'day Flashing,

Sorry, a rather half arsed post from me there.
What I was getting at in a round about way was that Lis Mara was in fact a much, much better younger horse than his 'on paper' record indicates...only that, to quote one US horseman, "He was in the hands of the Philistines before Erv Miller got hold of him". That being the case, while his race record indicates he was mainly an aged performer and while so many people here would immediately seize on that comparable lack of juvenile performance as being a clear sign post that his stock would likely not go early, the reality is that he would have gone early himself only for the circumstances of his training and driving at the time which, while no doubt well meaning, in all likelyhood prevented it from happening. The same thing applies to Jereme's Jet. I've no doubt he would have compiled a much better slate at 3 & 4 save illness/injury or whatever. Along kind of similar lines, consider a horse that I think you & certainly I really like, Four Starzzz Shark. Nothing in his race record indicates he would be an overtly handy sire of 2yos, yet his 1:55 2yo %'s in the US have been 1st rate, right up there with the best. That's why I think he will be an excellent juvenile sire under our racing conditions here in Australia. They're big, athletic, well made, long striding, keen, fast youngsters. Horses like Lis Mara, Jereme's Jet & Four Starzzz Shark are also why I don't take any overtly juvenile or overtly aged tending race records on face value. Western Ideal is another great example. Hope that makes more sense this time around.

[Flashing Red]

Yes it does, thank you I do like Four Starzzz Shark, because , like you said, his 1:55 winners strike rate were just as good as the top sires yet the mares he got would have been half the quality. It was a pick in between American Ideal and Four Starzzz for this mare this season, only ending up going to American Ideal because a) a lot of my friends over the NA like American Ideals and b) I was told that Four Starzzz can be a little hot and this mare throws them all super hot as it is. But maybe next season, because I would love to get my hands on one!

[triplev123]

That's good. I was hoping it would make sense.
If you're wanting to get your hands on a FSS then save yourself a couple of years and just come along to the Sydney APG at the end of Feb. I'll show you an absolutely cracking colt I am sure will make the grade. He is just a natural. His older brother's currently being set for The Levy at Yonkers in March and I hand on Heart honestly think this colt is better again. Looking forward to seeing them race. Like yourself, we bred to American Ideal this year. I think there's 3 or might be 4 of them on the way. Also bred (to) Sutter Hanover (with) a mare that appears to really hit it off with that sireline. That's why we were at Fairfield the other day (hint hint). We shall see.

[mango]

Hi Triplev123
Got a FSS filly foal very leggy and good type and have had her mother served by American Ideal and you had 4 mare's served by American Ideal.