Yonkers ban Pena: Could it happen here?

[The Big Mile]

Big headline in America this morning. Yonkers have banned Lou Pena trained horses from competing there. This is an astonishing situation but given US Tracks are privately run entitites, then I guess owners can allow whom they want to race there.

Does seem to go against every civil liberty in the book but is a very interesting case.

Can the same happen here?

Menangle - is owned by the NSWHRC. I guess it means it is 'owned' by the members in trust or something like that.

There is someone whom will put up Lou Pena like figures in the next 12-18 months in Sydney: Luke McCarthy. He will win the metro premiership by the long straight next season and still could win this years one and has only been racing for a short time this season.

Harness racing being harness racing what if inherent jealousies abound and there is a move to get Luke removed? (Might sound ridiculous, but some of the lowlifes that abound in NSW harness racing would have your mind spinning). I simply don't think they could legally do it, but without legal expertise I simply don't know. Maybe they could?

Given that it seems some serial complainers in the NSW industry seem to have a disproportional ear of some very powerful people linked to the NSWHRC maybe it is not beyond reality.

Harness Racing loves to shoot down tall poppies, both here and abroad. Lou Pena galvanises many people. Read the article, very interesting.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=91267

[mightymo]

Big headline in America this morning. Yonkers have banned Lou Pena trained horses from competing there. This is an astonishing situation but given US Tracks are privately run entitites, then I guess owners can allow whom they want to race there.

Does seem to go against every civil liberty in the book but is a very interesting case.

Can the same happen here?

Menangle - is owned by the NSWHRC. I guess it means it is 'owned' by the members in trust or something like that.

There is someone whom will put up Lou Pena like figures in the next 12-18 months in Sydney: Luke McCarthy. He will win the metro premiership by the long straight next season and still could win this years one and has only been racing for a short time this season.

Harness racing being harness racing what if inherent jealousies abound and there is a move to get Luke removed? (Might sound ridiculous, but some of the lowlifes that abound in NSW harness racing would have your mind spinning). I simply don't think they could legally do it, but without legal expertise I simply don't know. Maybe they could?

Given that it seems some serial complainers in the NSW industry seem to have a disproportional ear of some very powerful people linked to the NSWHRC maybe it is not beyond reality.

Harness Racing loves to shoot down tall poppies, both here and abroad. Lou Pena galvanises many people. Read the article, very interesting.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=91267


Im sorry but you cant compare Luke to Lou Pena.

Firstly, Lou has had multiple racing related infringements over his career.

Secondly, Lou had trained for a long time without being successful, then overnight he becomes this wonder trainer

Very interesting reaction by Yonkers. Guilty until proven innocent it would seem...

[triplev123]

Good for Tim Rooney. He can do whatever he likes because it his racetrack. If he doesn't think Pena is good for racing, if he doesn't want the bloke doing business on his premises then he can just call up Steve Starr and tell him to stop taking old mate Lou's entries and show him the door, no discussions entered into. It can't be done here, the Laws governing such things are totally different.

[Flashing Red]

There is someone whom will put up Lou Pena like figures in the next 12-18 months in Sydney: Luke McCarthy.

If you are comparing the results of Luke McCarthy to Lou Pena, with all due respect you have no idea. :confused: My comments are not in regards to anything sinister as hinted in the article you posted. The difference between Luke and Lou is that Luke has good owners and great horses and he has had a lot of success for a very long time. The sort of success that Luke is experiencing in Sydney is very similar to his father's in Brisbane. There are top trainers in every state, in every code.

The reason why there is an uproar with Lou is that he is taking claiming horses and racing them 2-3 sometimes more levels higher than he claimed them and they are winning convincingly. In the past two weeks, for example, Lou claimed a mare for $12,500. Her first start for Lou she won a Winners Over $18,000. Her second start was last Saturday and she ran third in a open. Turning a 12.5k claimer into an open performer in 2 weeks is what has put people's nose out of joint there. Real Joke was claimed for 40k and 2 weeks later he won a Meadowlands Invite. That is an improvement of several classes in 2 short weeks. People can draw whatever conclusions they want from these improvements, but regular improvements like this have caused a lot of angst over there.

I will not enter into substance abuse discussions, but I will say this. Luke has good horses, good owners and is from a family that has enjoyed success for many years. New South Wales is just going to have to deal with the fact that racing is going to get harder now with the prizemoney available. Better trainers and better horses are going to arrive.

People are angry with Lou Pena in America because for the past couple of years he has been able to claim horses and jump several classes in a space of a week, horses that have been in the claimers and running around a certain price for a season or two with many other trainers. While he did have a lot of success in California, it is nothing in comparison with the success he is achieving now.

Lou and Luke are chalk and cheese. :)

[aussiebreno]

Mightymo, VVV and Flashing took the words right out of my mouth!

[The Big Mile]

I think Mightymo might have to have a swig of his own medicine that he prescribed to others yesterday and find a nice chair in the classroom as its back to school :)

OK - please read what I wrote as you all seem to have misinterpreted it. So will go through and explain exactly what I wrote, and the reasons behind it.

I am steadfastly sticking up for Luke here and any suggestion or implication that I am not is way, way off the mark.


Big headline in America this morning. Yonkers have banned Lou Pena trained horses from competing there. This is an astonishing situation but given US Tracks are privately run entitites, then I guess owners can allow whom they want to race there.

Does seem to go against every civil liberty in the book but is a very interesting case.

Can the same happen here?

Menangle - is owned by the NSWHRC. I guess it means it is 'owned' by the members in trust or something like that.

There is someone whom will put up Lou Pena like figures in the next 12-18 months in Sydney: Luke McCarthy. He will win the metro premiership by the long straight next season and still could win this years one and has only been racing for a short time this season.

If this season is anything to go by, Luke is going to dominate Sydney metro racing next season and beyond. I am sure more than one forum member can verify that I believe Luke will dominate for 10 years and will go down as the greatest of all time. Such is my opinion of him as a trainer, driver and person.

Lou Pena like figures: Lou Pena is dominating at Yonkers. My parallel is that I think Luke will put up Lou Pena like figures of dominance here in Sydney next season. Hence why I went on to write 'He will win the metro premiership by the long straight.'

How that soared over your head Mightymo has left me flabbergasted :confused:



Harness racing being harness racing what if inherent jealousies abound and there is a move to get Luke removed? (Might sound ridiculous, but some of the lowlifes that abound in NSW harness racing would have your mind spinning). I simply don't think they could legally do it, but without legal expertise I simply don't know. Maybe they could?

I thought this was pretty straight forward. So will elaborate further in the context of Lou Pena. Luke McCarthy and one or two other trainers around Menangle have been targeted for their success this season. In some cases it is essentially a kind of harness racing witch hunt, initiated by some of the lowlifes I mention above that a racked by rampant jealousy of how this young bloke comes down here, and dominates. It doesn't sit at all well with several people whom given their insignificant standing in the industry, they are certianly given more court than they should be.

Whether we like it or not, whether we know about it or not, whether we care about it or not, in terms of Lou Pena, look at that first line in the article that I linked on the bottom of the original message:

The first line of that article sais:

Have officialdom at New York's Yonkers Raceway let an accumulated weight of rumor and innuendo sway its decision-making at the expense of an individual's civil and constitutional rights?

The witch hunt in NSW has been perpetrated by these lowlifes on nothing more than what is underlined above: rumour and innuendo. This rumour and innuendo is aimed at attempting to explain SUCCESS. Luke has been frightfully successful as has David Thorn this season but it seems some within the industry want to equate that to something more than good horsmanship and so forth.

Yet another parallel. People may not know but the Stewards have thrown everything here at Luke and David and so goes onto the next paragraph:


Given that it seems some serial complainers in the NSW industry seem to have a disproportional ear of some very powerful people linked to the NSWHRC maybe it is not beyond reality.

Now that maybe I have established a few parallels here between Lukes situation and Lou Penas on some grounds (not all of course) whom is to say given the above paragraph that something similar in NSW might not happen?

Given that I believe Luke will dominate next year, the cries from the detractors will only get louder.

Harness Racing loves to shoot down tall poppies, both here and abroad. Lou Pena galvanises many people. Read the article, very interesting.

It is yet another example of how harness racing is racked with jealousy of success and people have to point fingers and so forth to attempt to try and get some justification for their anger. Harness Racing hasn't helped itself with plenty of positives and so forth but it seems inherent that when people seem to go good, they get tarnished.

Never in my original post did I try to draw parallels of Lou Penas history in the west with Lukes, but just drawing parallels between what has happened to him (Pena) recently in the east against what has been existent in NSW harness racing for the best part of 6 months now.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=91267[/QUOTE]

And that is it! hope I cleared it up.

[Flashing Red]

Thank you for clearing that up, I understand where you are coming from and apologise :)

[mightymo]

Well why didnt you just say that in the first place?? :):)

[Love Of Courage]

Hello Hello,

Whilst I strongly believe in stamping out the drug cheats, I would at least like them to be proven guilty first. I think this decision with Lou Pena is wrong ! and will be contested and won.

If he is using some "wonderdrug" find out what the heck it is first. If connections of beaten runners believe that they have lost a huge amount of prizemoney to his "Assisted horses" put up some of their own money and do some private testing. At least if they find something in his horses,it can be tested for and the horses disqualified and the money given to the promoted horses.

If he has a wonderdrug that cannot be detected imagine the money he could make selling it to certain connections of horses in feature races.

All they would need to do is buy a well performed 2 year old colt at the end of the season. Spell him and " FIX " him up with the "Wonderdrug". Back him to win the feature 3 year old races, back him on the totes, collect the prizemoney and syndicate him for a pretty penny. Stuff the training! he could make more money doing this every year !

[aussiebreno]

Hmm is this the real Lance Justice or some goose?

[Love Of Courage]

this has absolutely nothing to do with any person mentioned here but i thought this info would be very helpful for persons general knowledge on here

LOC, there are several drugs out there that are totally undetectable or easily masked and easily bought - the only cost is the cost and damage it does to the horse long term

use google to research,
aicar
epo micro dosing
CERA
GW1516
protease and epo
autologous transfusions

that should be enough to keep everyone busy

but if your bored follow this link and translate it - pretty much says team BMC employee was caught importing epo just prior to the TDF (195 doses) supposedly for personal use!
http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail.aspx?artikelid=H43C039O&sectionid=8f693cea-dba8-46e4-8575-807d1dc2bcb7

Thank You for the post, makes for interesting reading.

I will be very suspicious of any trainers runners if I see him wearing a lab coat.

http://sugarconfessions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/mad-sci.png

[desibg]

Was speaking to a ex-participiant 2 weeks ago and he described harness racing in NSW as Tour De Menangle. Not sure if it is the real "Lance Justice" but his post is for all you do-gooders out there saying "innocent until proven guilty". when will you learn that the cheats are well ahead of stewards with technology, but you guys keep telling yourself that the paddocks in Cobbity are just really nutritious.

[Love Of Courage]

Was speaking to a ex-participiant 2 weeks ago and he described harness racing in NSW as Tour De Menangle. Not sure if it is the real "Lance Justice" but his post is for all you do-gooders out there saying "innocent until proven guilty". when will you learn that the cheats are well ahead of stewards with technology, but you guys keep telling yourself that the paddocks in Cobbity are just really nutritious.

Okay Desbig how would you implement this ! In your own words please.

Every trainer that has a winning streak is potentially facing a ban, " No proof required "

Not a case of being a " Do -Gooder ". If the penalty was a lifetime bad if caught doping, then no complaint from me, but you need proof. If the cheats are ahead of technology then its time to catch up.

In the thoroughbreds trainers such as TJ Smith, Bart Cummings, Lee Freedman have always been able to in most cases dramatically improve horses. Rogan Josh was a handy perth stayer and Bart won a Melbourne cup with him. All horses first checked for gastric ulcers with Bart.

Lee Freedman turned a handy stayer Makybe Diva into a superhorse, same with Miss Andretti turning her into a star sprinter. Does this mean that they should be banned !

[Flashing Red]

Welcome Lance :)

Some of those drugs you mentioned, they are currently trying to develop tests for them in the US (GW1516 & aicar). It costs a lot of funding to develop these tests.

Furthermore, (and a general observation), before tests can be developed, the crux of the matter is that they need to know what they are testing for. So, if they don't know, how can they develop tests LOC :)

[Love Of Courage]

Welcome Lance :)

Some of those drugs you mentioned, they are currently trying to develop tests for them in the US (GW1516 & aicar). It costs a lot of funding to develop these tests.

Furthermore, (and a general observation), before tests can be developed, the crux of the matter is that they need to know what they are testing for. So, if they don't know, how can they develop tests LOC :)

Hello Flashing Red,

Thank you for the post ! Point Taken !

I just do not like the way that No proof Required.

I also do not like the way these events tarnish this great sport.

[aussiebreno]

Just because it is ethical and moral (and actually the legal system) to give people the chance of innocent until proven guilty does not mean suspicions can't be about. But suspicions cannot be acted on without evidence. Desibg; if suspicions were acted on the industry would be a farce. I thought the world has moved on in the last 5000 years. Or did you wan't to go back to the days when witches were given a broomstick and had to leap off a cliff to certain death to prove their innocence?

You are being kind to Lee Freedman...I think Makybe won her first M Cup with her original trainer.

[Flashing Red]

Just because it is ethical and moral (and actually the legal system) to give people the chance of innocent until proven guilty does not mean suspicions can't be about. But suspicions cannot be acted on without evidence.

I agree, otherwise discretion plays too important a part and it then becomes who you know and who you're friends with in high up places.

[triplev123]

I used to have a bit of laugh when the racecallers would whack off about 'the TJ Smith bone & muscle'. You only had to take a look at them, they way they were developed, the way that they behaved and the way they raced. I'll stand stuffed if much of it wasn't because old mate had cottoned onto Steroids & Hormones & Acid Buffers before anyone else had.

[Love Of Courage]

I used to have a bit of laugh when the racecallers would whack off about 'the TJ Smith bone & muscle'. You only had to take a look at them, they way they were developed, the way that they behaved and the way they raced. I'll stand stuffed if much of it wasn't because old mate had cottoned onto Steroids & Hormones & Acid Buffers before anyone else had.

Hey VVV,

TJ was lucky enough to have the services of a top class vet in Percy Sykes. If the animal had any health issues Percy would be a great man to call on.

I find it amazing to watch people with horses, some people are natural horsemen and women and some are "NOT". John Size in sydney was another who seemed to come from nowhere and improve horses. Horses that had been good juveniles and their form as older horses dropped off. He was able to rejuvenate them. John went to Hong Kong and has won the premiership over there.

Johns attitude was he would rather have a 100 % horse happy and healthy and 70 % fit than the other way around. If the horse wants to race thats half the battle.

[The Big Mile]

Thank you for clearing that up, I understand where you are coming from and apologise :)

Your good Flashing.

[Flashing Red]

I must admit, you second post did explain your position a little better! :) Alls well that ends well I suppose :)

[roosters]

Was just talking to a mate that was at Newcastle last night. Apparently, this discussion about comparing Pena and Luke was all the talk and Luke is absolutely fuming

[gutwagon]

Lance could you just clear something up for me ? Are you the real Lance Justice or somebody using his name ?

[The Big Mile]

Was just talking to a mate that was at Newcastle last night. Apparently, this discussion about comparing Pena and Luke was all the talk and Luke is absolutely fuming

LOL Roosters. Surely you can do better than that?

[mightymo]

Roosters

I think your off the money here. When I spoke to Luke a earlier today, he had no idea about any comments on any forum.

[triplev123]

Was just talking to a mate that was at Newcastle last night.

Speaking of Newcastle...I'm coming up on my 10th anniversary since last having had a Bet at that track.

http://abcnotation.com/getResource/downloads/image/punters-graveyard-the.png?a=www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4731.no-ext/0000
Sung to the tune of 'Nearer My God to Thee'.

[aussiebreno]

Arterial Way is one that seemed not to improve. One exception to the rule though.

[justdoit]

Anyone else YouBet?
Pena i$ King, Newcastle is not unlike the Meadows. :)
(thanks Pena)

[Greg Hando]

indeed; testing is incredibly hard

can't believe no ones put the 2 and 2 together here...aicar is a powder, soluble in DMSO...

Also soluble in water

[Flashing Red]

Hmm is this the real Lance Justice or some goose?

Not the Lance Justice that trains Smoken Up, anyway.

[Greg Hando]

Not the Lance Justice that trains Smoken Up, anyway.

Admin shouldn't let user's use other people's names