Time to give Arsenic the A

[Messenger]

The integrity departments need to find a way to fix the arsenic problem.
It is pointless testing for it if nobody can be found guilty on the basis that it cannot be excluded that the level of arsenic was not the result of the horse consuming wood from paddock fencing

I don't know what the benefits of arsenic are and whether it warrants a rule whereby the trainer is responsible for the stabling/fencing of a horse (the replacement of all treated pine poles?) but I am sick of reading the exact same ruling/excuse.

The latest charges:

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Inquiry---Ben-Yole-

[trish]

A 2006 study of the remains of the Australian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian) racehorse, Phar Lap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phar_Lap), determined that the 1932 death of the famous champion was caused by a massive overdose of arsenic. Sydney veterinarian Percy Sykes stated, "In those days, arsenic was quite a common tonic, usually given in the form of a solution (Fowler's Solution) ... It was so common that I'd reckon 90 per cent of the horses had arsenic in their system."[62 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic#cite_note-62)

[trish]

http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/article.aspx?articleid=34972&zoneid=1 (old but a good read).

[Danno]

Arsenic IS a good tonic, used infrequently in minute doses, it also has performance enhancing characteristics used too frequently and in higher doses, it will kill a horse if given too often in larger doses, it usually enlargens the heart and eats away the liver.....ever hear how big Par Lap's liver was when they dissected him? Nope and you won't.


Even if the "fence post" excuse keeps getting trotted out, we need an acceptable level to be arrived at that ensures the welfare of the horse that is then policed adequately and if your "fencing" is causing your horses to go over that level then you are guilty of not only presenting a horse to race with illegal levels of substances but also the more serious animal welfare charges.


25 years ago we banned steroids completely because they were putting horses in early graves, it's about time we did the same thing for a number of substances and if I hear someone say "but the test methods for arsenic are not accurate enough for certain levels to be determined"... then ban it altogether, no excuses, treated pine posts or not.....full stop.

[Messenger]

Jodi Quinland the latest to lose a win thanks to a 'fence post chewer'

http://www.harness.org.au/news/uploads/Quinlan%20Jodi%20-%20RAD%20Board%20decision.pdf

[Mister JayKO]

The integrity departments need to find a way to fix the arsenic problem.
It is pointless testing for it if nobody can be found guilty on the basis that it cannot be excluded that the level of arsenic was not the result of the horse consuming wood from paddock fencing

I don't know what the benefits of arsenic are and whether it warrants a rule whereby the trainer is responsible for the stabling/fencing of a horse (the replacement of all treated pine poles?) but I am sick of reading the exact same ruling/excuse.

The latest charges:

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Inquiry---Ben-Yole-

The stewards investigate this stuff very closely Kevin. Pardon the terminology but it's not a bullshit excuse - it's a fact so many posts are covered in this stuff and some horses chew them. Now that people are aware I think you will find things will change but clearly it is an issue consistent across many states, which I think further supports my point. I congratulate the Stewards for applying a common sense approach to the issue.

[Messenger]

Stu, it is the fact that it has the potential to be a bullshit excuse, which worries me - let's face it, if you were dosing your horse with an arsenic tonic and got a positive you have a ready made 'the dog ate my homework' excuse available to you.

As for people now being aware, I knew treated pine poles contained arsenic over 30 years ago simply through being a home owner and at about that same time I knew horses chewed them just through taking my daughter to Ponyland.
Without a study to determine what is the maximum level of arsenic a pole chewer can reach, the stewards have no alternative but to show common sense.

[Hermione]

Stu, it is the fact that it has the potential to be a bullshit excuse, which worries me - let's face it, if you were dosing your horse with an arsenic tonic and got a positive you have a ready made 'the dog ate my homework' excuse available to you.

As for people now being aware, I knew treated pine poles contained arsenic over 30 years ago simply through being a home owner and at about that same time I knew horses chewed them just through taking my daughter to Ponyland.
Without a study to determine what is the maximum level of arsenic a pole chewer can reach, the stewards have no alternative but to show common sense.

I wish there was a 'like' button on here to mark the sensibility of your comment. Maybe someone can do a thesis on it and maybe in a few years we may have the answer :(

[trish]

Trainers are advised to take measures to ensure that racing horses do not have access to environmental sources of arsenic including treated timber products. http://www.harness.org.au/news-article.cfm?news_id=34799

[Messenger]

It is ridiculous that we are such a fragmented industry and a warning like this is coming from Tassie not a national body

[Diablo]

The legend of Phar Lap wouldn't be as great if people realised that he was treated with Arsenic most of his racing career and the notion that he was nobbled which resulted in his death was just a piece of journalistic sensationalism. These days there are too many flimsy scenarios used as a defence and if that excuse has a 1% possibility of occurring the charged party gets the benefit of the doubt. These results make the industry look bad, makes the Stewards look stupid and leaves punters annoyed. These days the form guide seems the most useless piece of armoury for the punter to try and find the winner, the best idea seems to try and guess the rort.

[Messenger]

3 more Arsenic guilty pleas on one day (Nov 14)
Special consideration given on all 3 penalties
It would seem that we are doing very little to give arsenic the A

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/top-stories/#stewards

[boondocks]

Animal welfare and industry detractors will have field day with the number of positive swabs with lenient penalties ( rules relating to the removal of designated fencing could occur) Irrespective of the causes and threshold levels the lenient penalties will surely encourage others to use arsenic laced sawdust. Stewards could be perceived to be taking stronger action if as part of their decision the relevant horses were disqualified until levels reached acceptable threshold levels.

[Messenger]

Somebody asked me if Vic is the only state testing for arsenic or are we the unlucky state that copped all the bad fence posts :confused:

[Dot]

No Kev, WA tests for Arsenic, The Chem Centre here is usually the referral lab for Vic B samples. Can't recall how many Arsenic positives there have been here, a few, not a lot. Most recent I can recall Clinton Hall who received no penalty when RWWA stewards were satisfied fence posts were still the culprits.

[Messenger]

I think the question was a little tongue-in-cheek Dot as Vic seem to have a lot more positives than other states and a higher number of 'chewer' horses (or different pine poles) doesn't really wash

[Dot]

Why does a greater number of "chewers" not wash in the state that has the highest number of individual trainers and horses trained in rural environments Kev? I have had someone here tell me that WA pine posts are not treated with chromium copper arsenate as they are elsewhere. That is not something I have confirmed though.

[Messenger]

4 Victorian Arsenic charges in the news today

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/top-stories/#stewards

[Dot]

And 2 harness and a bunch of TB ones in WA on the RWWA site

You might find this an interesting read Kev.

https://www.rwwa.com.au/home/media-centre/environment-change-leads-to-arsenic-spike-8015.html

Judith Medd is RWWAs vet. I believe she and RWWA are lobbying for an increase in the arsenic threshold, and that the testing process can distinguish between arsenic positives originating from treated pine poles and arsenic originating from injection.

Despite what I was told previously WA pine posts are treated with chromium copper arsenate as elsewhere, and the amount has been increased recently in WA in response to failures caused by white ants.

[Messenger]

The 5th Media release warning about Arsenic as a result of continued instances

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38542

[Messenger]

From Michael Stanley's stable

[Messenger]

Some are asking, why would you build new facilities out of treated pine nowadays what with all the warnings regarding arsenic.
As some believe that treated pine is an 'easy' defence for arsenic, I wonder whether premises are routinely inspected for evidence of chewing?

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/WALTERS%20Robert%20-%20HRV%20RAD%20Board%20-%20Media%20Release.pdf

The minimum penalty guidelines, for breaching AHRR 190(1) in relation to arsenic
offences, commenced on 1 January 2019 which state the starting point is a fine of
$10,000. These penalty guidelines applied in Mr Walter’s case.
Mr Walters was fined $7000, of which $3500 was suspended for a period of 12
months.

Not cheap to breach this one anymore

As you can see from this other case, also released today, Mr Walters is $3k worse off

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/HRV%20RAD%20Board%20-%20Media%20Release%20-%20Timothy%20O'Brien.pdf

These new penalty guidelines did not apply to Mr O’Brien.
Mr O’Brien was fined $4000, of which $2000 was suspended for a period of 12
months.

[Dot]

Have my doubts they’ll see any of Mr Walters fine regardless of the level levied at!

[Messenger]

He does a little problem highlighted in the Stewards News thread post 507

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?6590-Stewards-News/page51

[Messenger]

Arsenic seems to be a constant

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/HRV%20RAD%20Board%20-%20Media%20Release%20-%20John%20Nicholson1.pdf

http://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/HRV%20RAD%20Board%20-%20Media%20Release%20-%20Alison%20Alford1.pdf

No sense in abusing it as it can cost you a win

But I wonder what happened to 'the starting point is a fine of $10,000' see post 23

$1,500 plus loss of prizemoney seems to be it nowadays

[Messenger]

3 Arsenic cases reported on the one day in Vic (Cathels, Ryan, Farrugia)
They are not all treated pine chewers!
Time for Stewards to come the heavy as this just keeps on going on

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/top-stories/#stewards

[Showgrounds]

3 Arsenic cases reported on the one day in Vic (Cathels, Ryan, Farrugia)
They are not all treated pine chewers!
Time for Stewards to come the heavy as this just keeps on going on

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/top-stories/#stewards

I think you'll find the inquiries a just announced on the same day, there is no "outbreak" of arsenic use. If I were to re-fence my property today, with the improved level of swab testing we now have, I'd be using steel posts. Treated pine is just handing your hard earned to HRV.

[Messenger]

Like I said Trev, just 'reported' as in announced on the same day