Sire for Live or Die maiden mare

[figgy1]

Hi, it's that time again.....now looking for suggestions for a Sire for my maiden Live Or Die mare called Sweet Life out of a Christian Cullen mare Honey Ryder. No need to be commercial as will be keeping it. Was looking at Shadow Play or maybe Western Terror. She is not a big mare and has a great temperament although when in training did pull uncontrollably but showed real speed. Is from the family of The Orange Agent......thought about American Ideal but heard they can be a bit hot..
All suggestions greatly appreciated. ..

[Messenger]

Did your Miss Patriot put you off American Ideal Fiona?
He has worked with the family and I lean towards him
Here are the pedigrees for Shadow Play and Western Terror with Sweet Life

[figgy1]

Hi Kevin, Miss Patriot hasn't really put me off American Ideal but I think she may be a bit quirky and I am worried that her half sister Sweet Life (who pulled like a train racing!) might produce progeny that is hot headed if we go to him plus he is getting a bit pricey for my budget. Was looking at Heston Blue Chip but I guess he is the unknown......

[alphastud]

Hi Fiona,

I’d recommend for you to explore further crossing your mare with Western Terror or McArdle given their results to date.

In addition, both are good sires and high potential broodmare sires should you wish to breed on.

McArdle has produced 9 x +$100k stakes winners when crossed with LOD Broodmares.
Western Terror has produced 2 incl. Terror To Love.
Although not the same, I’ve personally bred my McArdle mare to Live Or Die on the back of a recommendation of a highly respected breeding consultant who also highlighted this cross.

Western Terror x [Live Or Die B’mare sire]
Terror To Love +$2M
Chal Fire $129,188

McArdle x [Live Or Die B’mare sire]
Elusive Chick $394,147
Ardle McArlde $273,600
Trojan Bromac $171,808
Uppercutz $123,470 USD
McShorty $117,440 USD
Callaway Bromac $125,216
Seshny Bromac $124,554
Donovan Bromac $119,931
Franco Jazzman $101,840

American Ideal x [Live Or Die B’mare sire]
American Boy $192,328

Shadow Play x [Live Or Die B’mare sire]
0

All the best.

[figgy1]

Hi Richard, thanks for that, unfortunately Mcardle is not available in NZ so that cant be an option for us, I am definately steering towards Western Terror. The stats you have don't look positive for Shadow Play so may have to give him a miss....going to a Breeders seminar tomorrow so hopefully that will provide the final clarity!! Or more confusion....!

[Messenger]

Be wary of basic stats Fiona. Shadow Play has only served a couple of Live Or Die mares, American Ideal and Western Terror a few, while McArdle has served near on a hundred in NZ alone.
Is Washington VC still with us?

[alphastud]

Sorry Fiona and thanks Kevin.

Kevin makes valid points and I should have included more detail. The factors that you and others have highlighted (incl. temperament, +damsires, body type etc. ) are all worth considering.

However the stats can be useful and McArdle still stands as one of the top ranked crosses with Live Or Die mares at this time.

Running at nearly 12% x +100k winners and over 50% winners for 77 foals of racing age confirms the success of this cross.

This is ahead of Bettors Delight, Art Major and Falcon Seelster however behind Mach Three at 16%.

There’s nothing to say that younger stallions such as Shadow Play, American Ideal etc. won’t improve on this and it’s unfair to make to compare until they’ve had maybe 30+ foals of racing age.

Rock N Roll Heaven has a standout winner in Rock N Roll Magic and Tintin In America has produced Shartin. Given McArdle and Falcon Seelster’s success with Live Or Die then Tintin In America could be worth considering.

Western Terror is ahead on %'s however like American Ideal and Shadow Play, has only a few foals of racing age.

See more info. below.
Western Terror 3 foals of racing age. 2 strong winners (66% x +100k winners)
McArdle 77 foals of racing age. 39 winners (over 50%) and (11.77% x 100k winners)
Tintin In America 7 foals of racing age. (14.3 % x +100k winners)
American Ideal 16 foals of racing age. 6 winners. (6.25% x +100k winners)
Rock N Roll Heaven 7 foals of racing age. (14.3% x 100k winners)
Shadow Play 2 Foals. Both non winners
Changeover 43 foals of racing age (0% x +100k winners)
Bettor Delight 55 foals of racing age (10.9% x +100k winners)
Washington VC 17 foals of racing age. 3 winners. (5.8% x +100k winners)
Mach Three 50 foals of racing age (16% x +100k winners)
Falcon Seelster 75 foals of racing age (8% x +100k winners)
Art Major 44 foals of racing age (9% x +100k winners)

Thanks,

[figgy1]

Washington is still avail so will also think about him....hopefully it might be clearer after seminar today!!!

[Messenger]

Sorry Fiona and thanks Kevin.

Kevin makes valid points and I should have included more detail. The factors that you and others have highlighted (incl. temperament, +damsires, body type etc. ) are all worth considering.

However the stats can be useful and McArdle still stands as one of the top ranked crosses with Live Or Die mares at this time.

Running at nearly 12% x +100k winners and over 50% winners for 77 foals of racing age confirms the success of this cross.

This is ahead of Bettors Delight, Art Major and Falcon Seelster however behind Mach Three at 16%.

There’s nothing to say that younger stallions such as Shadow Play, American Ideal etc. won’t improve on this and it’s unfair to make to compare until they’ve had maybe 30+ foals of racing age.

Rock N Roll Heaven has a standout winner in Rock N Roll Magic and Tintin In America has produced Shartin. Given McArdle and Falcon Seelster’s success with Live Or Die then Tintin In America could be worth considering.

Western Terror is ahead on %'s however like American Ideal and Shadow Play, has only a few foals of racing age.

See more info. below.
Western Terror 3 foals of racing age. 2 strong winners (66% x +100k winners)
McArdle 77 foals of racing age. 39 winners (over 50%) and (11.77% x 100k winners)
Tintin In America 7 foals of racing age. (14.3 % x +100k winners)
American Ideal 16 foals of racing age. 6 winners. (6.25% x +100k winners)
Rock N Roll Heaven 7 foals of racing age. (14.3% x 100k winners)
Shadow Play 2 Foals. Both non winners
Changeover 43 foals of racing age (0% x +100k winners)
Bettor Delight 55 foals of racing age (10.9% x +100k winners)
Washington VC 17 foals of racing age. 3 winners. (5.8% x +100k winners)
Mach Three 50 foals of racing age (16% x +100k winners)
Falcon Seelster 75 foals of racing age (8% x +100k winners)
Art Major 44 foals of racing age (9% x +100k winners)

Thanks,

Thanks for all that research Richard - interesting stuff. Is Mach Three semen available this season?

[alphastud]

Thanks Kevin.

I don't think that there is any frozen Mach Three semen available.

Somebeach has 13 foals of racing age. 0 x +$100k winners.
Courage Under Fire had 38 foals of racing age (13% x +100k winners)

[figgy1]

Decision made...! Will be sending our mare to Heston Blue Chip. ....16hh, apparently great nature and we will still get some American Ideal blood...I guess time will tell in a few years.... going to send our Bettors Delight mare to Western Terror......so job done!!

[alphastud]

Well done for researching and inquiring Fiona. All the best with your foals.

[gutwagon]

If you are looking for a budget stallion in future seasons Sir Lincoln's first 3 winners are all from Live Or Die mares. One of them (Aramis) looks like it could be very good !
Live Or Die has been an amazing sire, I can't recall one that has stood for so many seasons and just keeps producing good horses every season!