2018 Victorian Interdominion

[Danno]

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35477

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Inter-Dominion-Returning-to-Victoria-in-2018

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35477

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Inter-Dominion-Returning-to-Victoria-in-2018

I know Ray Chaplin of Equine Excellence has been pushing for a return of the Trotters Inter too.
Although the link mentions Melbourne will align a feature trotting event with the Inter in 2018, it would be good if they could have a Trotters Inter running along with the pacers by 2021

[Pogga]

My excitement turns to disappointment of the Interdom returning to Victoria. Why mess with the format?! Because of cost? 3 heats & a final, the reason why the Interdom was/is such a mighty race. Im sure it'll still be a success but as a harness lover & a massive fan of the Interdom, the traditional format is what has made legends of our sport. Anyway, thats my whinge.. Onto finding a winner at Shepparton tonight...

[Messenger]

My excitement turns to disappointment of the Interdom returning to Victoria. Why mess with the format?! Because of cost? 3 heats & a final, the reason why the Interdom was/is such a mighty race. Im sure it'll still be a success but as a harness lover & a massive fan of the Interdom, the traditional format is what has made legends of our sport. Anyway, thats my whinge.. Onto finding a winner at Shepparton tonight...

What makes you think there will not be 3 heats & a final Stephen?
David Martin mentioned that there would be non-Melton heats prior to the final on Dec 15

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Inter-Dominion-Returning-to-Victoria-in-2018

[Pogga]

confirmed on radio this morning. 2 non Melton heats with a Melton final..

[Pogga]

"HRV boss David Martin confirms to us on @RSN927 there will be two rounds of Interdom heats in Victoria next year and BOTH will be held away from Melton. Great chance for two other clubs"

[Messenger]

Thanks Stephen. I wonder why they are doing themselves out of money by shortening the event

[Adaptor]

Thanks Stephen. I wonder why they are doing themselves out of money by shortening the event

This is great news. Remember the huge crowds at Victorian Interdom finals?

Perfect opportunity for 2 country clubs and the local tourism organizations ( like Events Bendigo) to draw crowds to showcase what really is the keynote harness racing event in the Southern hemisphere.

Seeing the final is at Melton which has a sprint lane, then, for consistency, the tracks without sprint lanes need not apply ! ( There is one that starts with B and ends in t)
Central Victorian venues seem obvious, but Cranbourne with the huge population and live-wire organization might be a chance.

[arlington]

Shepparton and Ballarat, two of the fairest tracks and crowds close to the action.

[Messenger]

I cannot have Ballarat either Noel. You either have a sprint lane for the series or you don't

I hope you all had an afternoon kip so that you can stay up past midnight tonight

[arlington]

That would mean Ballarat shouldn't run Breeders Crown or Super Sires heats??

[Messenger]

True

[arlington]

I know Ray Chaplin of Equine Excellence has been pushing for a return of the Trotters Inter too.
Although the link mentions Melbourne will align a feature trotting event with the Inter in 2018, it would be good if they could have a Trotters Inter running along with the pacers by 2021


The Great Southern Star, with the two heat format influencing the pacers only having two heats?

[arlington]

Isn't the concept of group racing to pit the best against the best? Always has been for as long as I can remember in all spheres of racing.
Austalian, and for that matter Nth American or European have always been welcome to compete in Group events down under.
NZ even sets aside a space in each heat of the JEWELS specifically for and Austalian entry. WE want to see your best and our best competing at that elite level.

Also as an aside..
It is the intention of NZ clubs and HRNZ to bring back a Trotters ID championship. Afterall the official title of the Interdoms was and still is..."Interdominion PACING AND TROTTING Championship".
They will be at Group level and all will be welcome.


Any talk of which ID format, heats and finals, teecee?

[teecee]

We used to run 3 sets of heats and final. Then we had heats on the first two nights with the final on the third night.
I hear that these are again the options for the NZ series but I have heard nothing to suggest one over the other. Suffice to say it will be a multi rounds of heats and a Grand Final as it was a few decades ago.
Many of our best races as a spectacle are the Trotters and NZ wants to showcase them in the Inters again. We hope that Victoria and NSW will come to the party as they along with NZ host the Interdoms for at least the next 9 years possibly longer.

[arlington]

We used to run 3 sets of heats and final. Then we had heats on the first two nights with the final on the third night.
I hear that these are again the options for the NZ series but I have heard nothing to suggest one over the other. Suffice to say it will be a multi rounds of heats and a Grand Final as it was a few decades ago.
Many of our best races as a spectacle are the Trotters and NZ wants to showcase them in the Inters again. We hope that Victoria and NSW will come to the party as they along with NZ host the Interdoms for at least the next 9 years possibly longer.

People would have to agree Victoria hasn't neglected the trotters with the introduction of the Great Southern Star filling the void. Victoria has stepped up to the plate.
However, I couldn't imagine Victoria now being able to run both. The Star is dropped when Vic host the I D Trotters Championship?

[arlington]

I know Ray Chaplin of Equine Excellence has been pushing for a return of the Trotters Inter too.
Although the link mentions Melbourne will align a feature trotting event with the Inter in 2018, it would be good if they could have a Trotters Inter running along with the pacers by 2021

HRA - Michael Taranto Elected HRA Chair
http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=35731

Could very well mean a trotters championship next year.

[arlington]

I switched over to 7mate and it is good stuff - it will be even better exposure when the Inter is on the East coast
Although a national telecaster, wouldn't be a given 7mate/seven west media would show the I D in an eastern state? The viewing numbers and courting the seven execs will be important no doubt.

Word has it three rounds of heats next year, two regional, one at Melton. Would be bigger gross crowd numbers with two regional heats rather than all at Melton? A rhetorical question?

[Messenger]

Agreed Wayne, if profit was the aim, the whole series at Melton would be the go

[Messenger]

"HRV boss David Martin confirms to us on @RSN927 there will be two rounds of Interdom heats in Victoria next year and BOTH will be held away from Melton. Great chance for two other clubs"

It has now been decided that there will be 3 rounds of heats in Vic in 2018

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Trots-Media---Inter-Dominion-2018-to-Maintain-Three-Rounds-of-Heats

[Pogga]

Fantastic decision and well done to the powers that be, listened to the harness racing community & made the right decision. Bring on 2018!

[David Martin]

Thanks Pogga. Most likely the first night will be at Melton, then 2 nights of non-Melton heats, followed by the final at Melton. All Vic clubs have been invited to respond to an Expression of Interest by Jan 12, so that we can select the two clubs who will host the non-Melton heats. We are also still considering what we will do for the Trotters.


Our challenge is to make this ID18 a great event! All ideas welcome.

[Pogga]

Some of my fondest memories came from the Interdom in Melbourne, how exciting to have it back David! Well done on bringing it back to us & I for one will be doing all I can to make it a great experience!


1992 Westburn Grant, what a champion & then the homegrown (sort of if we count John Justice as a Vic now ;) ) win of Shakamaker in 2000, that nearly brought the stands down! Trackside in 2008 (even though not the traditional format) I'll never forget Blackie pouring on the pressure and being a mile too good.


Gets the hair standing on the back of the neck just thinking about it & no doubt the successful country tracks having heats run will promote this sport to within an inch of it's life as well.


Fingers crossed, I'll have one of my own fit enough to contest the series, Tact Tate, which would tick off an item from my bucket list!

[Showgrounds]

Some of my fondest memories came from the Interdom in Melbourne, how exciting to have it back David! Well done on bringing it back to us & I for one will be doing all I can to make it a great experience!


1992 Westburn Grant, what a champion & then the homegrown (sort of if we count John Justice as a Vic now ;) ) win of Shakamaker in 2000, that nearly brought the stands down! Trackside in 2008 (even though not the traditional format) I'll never forget Blackie pouring on the pressure and being a mile too good.


Gets the hair standing on the back of the neck just thinking about it & no doubt the successful country tracks having heats run will promote this sport to within an inch of it's life as well.


Fingers crossed, I'll have one of my own fit enough to contest the series, Tact Tate, which would tick off an item from my bucket list!

Nah, Cocky Raider's win in the 1970 Consolation stood the hair up on the back of the neck. Reminiscent of his 1969 Melbourne Pacing Cup win.


(Oh, hell - how old am I?)

[Adaptor]

Nah, Cocky Raider's win in the 1970 Consolation stood the hair up on the back of the neck. Reminiscent of his 1969 Melbourne Pacing Cup win.


(Oh, hell - how old am I?)

Cocky Raider ....I was there.....can't remember which one though he was wearing the stars and stripes colours as he's just been sold to the US. So it must have been the Inter Dom consolation.
He came from last down the outside fence. As a spectator , you could just about reach out and touch him.

[Showgrounds]

Cocky Raider ....I was there.....can't remember which one though he was wearing the stars and stripes colours as he's just been sold to the US. So it must have been the Inter Dom consolation.
He came from last down the outside fence. As a spectator , you could just about reach out and touch him.

Yep, wore the stars and stripes during the Inter for his US owners but remained in the McWilliam stable. From memory, he was stuck 3 back the rails, and the number of horses that won on the Melbourne Showgrounds that won from there could be counted on one hand (Paleface Adios being one of them).

Pretty sure he never won a race in the USA, a tragedy because he was a great little horse.

[Danno]

Yep, wore the stars and stripes during the Inter for his US owners but remained in the McWilliam stable. From memory, he was stuck 3 back the rails, and the number of horses that won on the Melbourne Showgrounds that won from there could be counted on one hand (Paleface Adios being one of them).

Pretty sure he never won a race in the USA, a tragedy because he was a great little horse.

I always thought he won just the one race in the US, but just bumped into this article on the Harnessbred site,

http://www.harnessbred.com/story-no-14-cocky-raider/

[Pogga]

Nah, Cocky Raider's win in the 1970 Consolation stood the hair up on the back of the neck. Reminiscent of his 1969 Melbourne Pacing Cup win.


(Oh, hell - how old am I?)

A hell of a lot older than me

[Showgrounds]

Thanks for that story Danno. How good was that Australia Day Cup? What a great field and how good was little Cocky charging home? A young B. Hancock driving Teeny Rena - she was his meal ticket back then and the family she founded kept him well fed. Lucky Creed had won 24 straight, equaled 8 years later by Maoris Idol and only bettered by San Simeon. Harold Park had three major cups back in that era; Australia Day, Lord Mayors and Spring Cups. All pretty well went by the wayside with the establishment of the Grand Circuit leaving the Miracle Mile as Harold Park's premier event. How about the crowd - brings a tear to the eye of people that remember the era and would make modern administrators howl with despair!

[Amlin]

http://www.milduraindependent.com/index.php/news/5543-mildura-harness-racing-club-puts-in-bid-to-hold-heat-of-inter-dominion-series-in-2018

Admire the enthusiasm but one feels this will be like passing the clocktower in the Melbourne Cup (a big field but only a couple of winning chances)

[David Martin]

Victorian Clubs have until COB on Jan 12 to make their submissions for hosting the 2 nights of non-Melton ID heats. Who do you think should nominate and why?

[gutwagon]

Well I can't see how Ballarat could have heats without a sprint lane, and Cranbourne is a nightmare to get to so I say anywhere but those two clubs.
I bet it will be Bendigo and Ballarat !

[arlington]

I'm in support of a Shepparton bid, one of the fairest racing circuits. The club is proven in hosting a main attraction, who can forget Courage Under Fire coming to the Goulburn Valley.
Covers the northern and eastern parts of the State, reaching into the north central and central. Draws on the populous to the south and north along the Hume Freeway including those from the southern Riverina of NSW who are attracted to the Albury meetings.
An easy drive from Melbourne along multilane freeways. If you do need a little break, the banks of the Nagambie Lakes with the statue of Black Caviar looking over mum, dad and the kids to get everyone geed up.
I could go on 'smiles' but a bid, submission content, would be dependant on whether you are hosting the midweek heat or Friday/Saturday evening round? Therefore the attractions of the area to entice newcomers might be strategically different. Irrespective of which night, if one of the aims was to re-energise the grassroots, the breeding component of the sport, where is the biggest nursery in the State?
Did someone just mention guided stud tours of the Goulburn Valley which would be pre yearling sales?

Re: Ballarat - it may be so obvious I can't see but why can't Ballarat, without a sprint lane, host a round? If it's about newcomers not being able to comprehend/accept - aren't we lacking variety? Although not primarily known as a punting sport, (the advertising?) AFL is played on grounds with their idiosyncrasies.
Would people suggest Ballarat shouldn't host the Breeders Crown or Sires heats or semis as they are promotional year in year out?

[Pogga]

IMO, you can still host the Interdom on tracks with sprint lanes BUT take them out for the Interdom! WA removed the sprint lane for the Bunbury heats, no reason why they can't be removed in Vic. I don't want to make it a 'sprint lane' thread but get rid of the friggen things, especially for the Interdom!

[Pogga]

Victorian Clubs have until COB on Jan 12 to make their submissions for hosting the 2 nights of non-Melton ID heats. Who do you think should nominate and why?

I think Shepparton deserves one just for the weight of numbers they have supporting each race meet & the club no matter the time of year.. Ballarat the other, host the best cup night (just my opinion of course ;)) and deserve the right to host a heat night. Guaranteed bumper crowds!

[gutwagon]

If Melton is our new headquarters why wouldn't all heats and finals be held there. That should give the best attendance and turnover. It should have the best facilities, oh wait, it doesn't have a covered grandstand and the parade ring is hidden and it's a traffic nightmare to get to !

[arlington]

Victorian Clubs have until COB on Jan 12 to make their submissions for hosting the 2 nights of non-Melton ID heats. Who do you think should nominate and why?


Wondering how the submission process is going David?

[Yabbie]

Commercial recommendations will go to the next Board meeting which I believe is next week
Cheers All

[arlington]

Thanks Carol

[Adaptor]

Thanks Carol

So....what are our informed guesses for the 2 country Interdom venues ??
I'm hoping Bendigo, as the COGB, Events Bendigo and Bendigo Tourism have been able to promote and stage great events (like the Marilyn Monroe exhibition at the Art Galley) that have drawn, and accomodate in a range of Airbnbs, Hotels and Motels huge crowds from across the Australia, as well as International visitors, and the public transport is well oiled, particularly VLine. The racetrack is the best in the country, possibly better than Melton.

But I wonder if Ballarat would install a sprint lane to get the event? And based on attendance and betting turnover, Ballarat Cup night was a cracker.

I guess Shepparton as it's the center of the breeding industry and has a large number of trainers based around the area. Yhey may be limited by the accomodation on offer.

Can't see any others outside these three.

[aussiebreno]

So the heats will be Ballarat and Cranbourne. Not venturing far from Melton. If you're giving up running the heats at the Metropolitan track there needs to be benefits to it. Benefits of getting a different group of people to the track greatly diminished by choosing those two locations.

[Showgrounds]

Cranbourne is an interesting one. It takes the best horses to a whole new market in Melbourne's fastest growing area. Promoted properly, ie, starting TODAY, it could be a winner.

My biggest concern: I hate tracks inside of a gallops track as a "specatacle", particularly at night. And Ballarat? Sprint lane, anyone?

[arlington]

All the best to both clubs and harness racing in Victoria.

Not dismissing the importance of year one of three rotating years, but other clubs will have opportunities.

Ballarat has the midweek round, the same traffic snarl as heading to Melton and draws on the same demographics as Melton?
Ballarat would have been $1.04 and Cranbourne with the population growth thing in the red as well and the two localities geographically opposite. I wonder which club was picked first.
Hosting the tri codes day would have been a feature in Cranbourne's submission but how successful that has been in recruiting people to harness racing, especially with the track inside the gallops track, not sure.

Did Ballarat's submission include they are open to putting in a sprint lane? If so, and it is installed for the I D, can they revert? Personally I'd like no sprint lane. Considering the class of horse and drivers, could be more of a spectacle. I guess if the uninitiated newcomers would be confused without a sprint lane, that confusion would be year in, year out with the Ballarat pacing Cup and other notable, showcase meetings?

Unfortunately, with Melton's track design a sprint lane's a must which influences any thoughts of removing sprint lanes from other tracks. Maybe if we get to profiting from the surrounding land at Melton the scrapers and dozers can take to the Melton track. Oh, but those front runner track records that have done so much for us?! Hope the breeders association has a Melton front runner loading on their Time Pins.

The return of the trotters I D is a good thing, hope NSW and NZ follow suit. Can Vic afford to run both the Southern Star and I D? Without knowing prize money on offer, would an I D trotters final need to nearly self fund, via international punting for example, to support a "perfect run in to the Southern Star" pitch from some highly influential trotting owners?

[Messenger]

Is Harnesslink the only place this news is found?

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Trots-Media---Ballarat-and-Cranbourne-to-host-Inter-Heats--Trotters-Inter-Dom-returns

Breno, you have to understand that HRV are trying to win back the heavily populated but neglected East of Melbourne. (and it is still a good hike from Melton)

A track inside a gallops track however - NO NO NO (I would rather they raced on the grass, except they would be a mile away down the back)

I am assuming Ballarat is now getting a sprint lane

[aussiebreno]

Is Harnesslink the only place this news is found?

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Trots-Media---Ballarat-and-Cranbourne-to-host-Inter-Heats--Trotters-Inter-Dom-returns

Breno, you have to understand that HRV are trying to win back the heavily populated but neglected East of Melbourne. (and it is still a good hike from Melton)

A track inside a gallops track however - NO NO NO (I would rather they raced on the grass, except they would be a mile away down the back)

I am assuming Ballarat is now getting a sprint lane

If people in central Melbourne want to go to the Inter heats they can go to Melton. They can now go to Cranbourne as well so its the same demographic. Ballarat and Melton very close also. There is significant crossover with the the same demographic are getting to go to two rounds of heats whether that be Ballarat/Melton or Cranbourne/Melton.

If you had just one of Ballarat or Cranbourne perhaps you could get away with it, but the key thing about opening heats up to other tracks was to give the opportunity for a different group of people to see the top horses, and the selection of Ballarat and Cranbourne doesn't really open it up to a different lot of people like locations further away from Melton would have allowed.

[Adaptor]

If people in central Melbourne want to go to the Inter heats they can go to Melton. They can now go to Cranbourne as well so its the same demographic. Ballarat and Melton very close also. There is significant crossover with the the same demographic are getting to go to two rounds of heats whether that be Ballarat/Melton or Cranbourne/Melton.

If you had just one of Ballarat or Cranbourne perhaps you could get away with it, but the key thing about opening heats up to other tracks was to give the opportunity for a different group of people to see the top horses, and the selection of Ballarat and Cranbourne doesn't really open it up to a different lot of people like locations further away from Melton would have allowed.

I guess Bendigo and Shepparton which are actually in Central Victoria and really in the country should get in the line for the next round in 3 years time.

BUT now we have the trotters as well as pacers and a real Interdominion Series, which is the one that you refer to when checking out champion horses, and champion drivers. This might bring the crowds !

[Messenger]

If people in central Melbourne want to go to the Inter heats they can go to Melton. They can now go to Cranbourne as well so its the same demographic. Ballarat and Melton very close also. There is significant crossover with the the same demographic are getting to go to two rounds of heats whether that be Ballarat/Melton or Cranbourne/Melton.

If you had just one of Ballarat or Cranbourne perhaps you could get away with it, but the key thing about opening heats up to other tracks was to give the opportunity for a different group of people to see the top horses, and the selection of Ballarat and Cranbourne doesn't really open it up to a different lot of people like locations further away from Melton would have allowed.
I thought you were a Sydney-sider Breno
You need to understand that the demographic centre of Melbourne is not the CBD - it is Glen Iris which is 25 min to the East, 25 min that you need to add on for them and you would already have read the difficulty of CBD workers/dwellers of getting out of the CBD to Melton (thus the criticism of Melton as our Metro track ), imagine having to get right across it

It gets worse because Glen Iris is just the midpoint - HALF of Melbourne's population is to the east of them THUS making Melton well over an hour away

66% of Victoria's population is in Melbourne - that means 33% of the states pop is in Melbourne to the East of Glen Iris (E, NE, SE). We are talking a couple of million people without even counting Country East who may consider going to Cranbourne if we can get it right

This the demographic that we are targeting - Glen Iris and the East of them who only have to travel half an hour or less to Cranbourne Not over an hour to Melton

[aussiebreno]

I thought you were a Sydney-sider Breno
You need to understand that the demographic centre of Melbourne is not the CBD - it is Glen Iris which is 25 min to the East, 25 min that you need to add on for them and you would already have read the difficulty of CBD workers/dwellers of getting out of the CBD to Melton (thus the criticism of Melton as our Metro track ), imagine having to get right across it

It gets worse because Glen Iris is just the midpoint - HALF of Melbourne's population is to the east of them THUS making Melton well over an hour away

66% of Victoria's population is in Melbourne - that means 33% of the states pop is in Melbourne to the East of Glen Iris (E, NE, SE). We are talking a couple of million people without even counting Country East who may consider going to Cranbourne if we can get it right

This the demographic that we are targeting - Glen Iris and the East of them who only have to travel half an hour or less to Cranbourne Not over an hour to Melton
How far from Ballarat, Melton, Glen Iris and Cranbourne is Stawell, Bendigo, Charlton, Mildura, Cobram, Shepparton, Echuca, Horsham, Maryborough, Kilmore, Wangaratta, Terang etc.

If you want Cranbourne thats ok, but you cant have Ballarat. Needed to be spaced out more.

[Messenger]

I hear what you are saying but Ballarat is a reasonable distance from many, many places - even West Melbourne

If we want a commercial success, can we afford to be too far from Melbourne's 4M pop ?

[aussiebreno]

I hear what you are saying but Ballarat is a reasonable distance from many, many places - even West Melbourne

If we want a commercial success, can we afford to be too far from Melbourne's 4M pop ?
Then just run the other set at Melton rather than Ballarat if you don't want to go too far from 4m pop. I would probably prefer all heats be at the Metro track, but if the idea is to run heats away from the Metro track to bring in a greater audience, then you need to widen the horizons.

If the idea is "We need to run heats AWAY from Melton because reasons" I would have thought you run the heats AWAY from Melton and not select the two closest tracks to Melton.

[gutwagon]

I only just found out we are having 3 rounds of heats. All the publicity seemed to point to 2 rounds. The question of the sprint lane at Ballarat should have been answered by now ! I thought the lack of a sprint lane at Ballarat would have ruled them out.
Personally I'm hoping all sprint lanes will be closed just for consistency and better racing. But I bet they will just not have one at Ballarat.
As for the traffic issues I hope they run the heats on Saturday-Wednesday-Saturday nights and the final on the following Saturday night. Cranbourne could have the Wednesday night one .
These are just suggestions Mr Martin , not criticisms . And bringing back the trotters was just obvious and should never have been taken away.

[Messenger]

Then just run the other set at Melton rather than Ballarat if you don't want to go too far from 4m pop. I would probably prefer all heats be at the Metro track, but if the idea is to run heats away from the Metro track to bring in a greater audience, then you need to widen the horizons.

If the idea is "We need to run heats AWAY from Melton because reasons" I would have thought you run the heats AWAY from Melton and not select the two closest tracks to Melton.

I agree with your thinking Breno - normally I would say that the whole event should be at your Metro track but our problem is that Melton is West Metro.

I cannot see the industry moving from Melton (too many participants who live there would howl it down for starters)

If we really want to appeal to the whole of Melbourne or at least have a crack at it, I only see 2 solutions

- a sister Metro track which can have an 'easterly' aspect but would ideally be closer than Cranbourne

- a city racecourse like MV where we run about a dozen feature meetings. I know this is one that Ray Chaplin advocates. I fear it could only be possible at MV and with their redevelopment plans it may be too late even if we started jumping up and down tomorrow and then it may have to be grass racing (which Ray would not mind)

[Messenger]

I only just found out we are having 3 rounds of heats. All the publicity seemed to point to 2 rounds. The question of the sprint lane at Ballarat should have been answered by now ! I thought the lack of a sprint lane at Ballarat would have ruled them out.
Personally I'm hoping all sprint lanes will be closed just for consistency and better racing. But I bet they will just not have one at Ballarat.
As for the traffic issues I hope they run the heats on Saturday-Wednesday-Saturday nights and the final on the following Saturday night. Cranbourne could have the Wednesday night one .
These are just suggestions Mr Martin , not criticisms . And bringing back the trotters was just obvious and should never have been taken away.

Decisions already made Rick - see the link

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Trots-Media---Ballarat-and-Cranbourne-to-host-Inter-Heats--Trotters-Inter-Dom-returns

Not surprised you didn't know as I still cannot find it in the HRA site's News loop

[David Martin]

I only just found out we are having 3 rounds of heats. All the publicity seemed to point to 2 rounds. The question of the sprint lane at Ballarat should have been answered by now ! I thought the lack of a sprint lane at Ballarat would have ruled them out.
Personally I'm hoping all sprint lanes will be closed just for consistency and better racing. But I bet they will just not have one at Ballarat.
As for the traffic issues I hope they run the heats on Saturday-Wednesday-Saturday nights and the final on the following Saturday night. Cranbourne could have the Wednesday night one .
These are just suggestions Mr Martin , not criticisms . And bringing back the trotters was just obvious and should never have been taken away.



Thanks Rick. We did initially state only 2 rounds of heats, as that was what was agreed by Vic/NSW/NZ with HRA. We later changed that so all three jurisdictions will run the traditional 3 rounds of heats. In 2018, the first night will be at Melton, then Ballarat, then Cranbourne, with the final at Melton. 7 clubs provided submissions, with Ballarat and Cranbourne successful. The Board has flagged it's intention for the non-Melton heats to be conducted at other clubs in 2021, etc. We will advise in due course about the conditions for the ID, including sprint lanes, etc. As always, I appreciate your input and suggestions. Cheers, David

[Exhilarator]

pity our top horses going around at cranbourne who have the worst home turn in the state

[Amlin]

I thought you were a Sydney-sider Breno
You need to understand that the demographic centre of Melbourne is not the CBD - it is Glen Iris which is 25 min to the East, 25 min that you need to add on for them and you would already have read the difficulty of CBD workers/dwellers of getting out of the CBD to Melton (thus the criticism of Melton as our Metro track ), imagine having to get right across it

It gets worse because Glen Iris is just the midpoint - HALF of Melbourne's population is to the east of them THUS making Melton well over an hour away

66% of Victoria's population is in Melbourne - that means 33% of the states pop is in Melbourne to the East of Glen Iris (E, NE, SE). We are talking a couple of million people without even counting Country East who may consider going to Cranbourne if we can get it right

This the demographic that we are targeting - Glen Iris and the East of them who only have to travel half an hour or less to Cranbourne Not over an hour to Melton

A large portion of members of the old VHRC when they had their own area at MV were from the Eastern suburbs, these people would have dropped the sport long ago. Have not been to a Cranbourne meet for over seven years so I cannot say if they have been attending their Sat night meets in droves.

They should program a country meet the day after the Cranbourne heats at Warragul to encourage carnival visitors to spend the weekend in Gippsland. Extra exposure for the sport and given that Warragul has discussed perhaps a dual code meet with the greyhounds at that time of year, latching on to such publicity could only assure a great success!

[arlington]

A large portion of members of the old VHRC when they had their own area at MV were from the Eastern suburbs, these people would have dropped the sport long ago. Have not been to a Cranbourne meet for over seven years so I cannot say if they have been attending their Sat night meets in droves.

They should program a country meet the day after the Cranbourne heats at Warragul to encourage carnival visitors to spend the weekend in Gippsland. Extra exposure for the sport and given that Warragul has discussed perhaps a dual code meet with the greyhounds at that time of year, latching on to such publicity could only assure a great success!


http://www.harnessracingforum.com/images/icons/icon14.png

[gutwagon]

Having a heat at Ballarat on a Wednesday night will stop many people going due to traffic problems. The ring road and Western Highway on a week night add 30 minutes + to most peoples trips, add some road works and a crash and that could be 2 hours. There is basically only one way for Melbourne traffic to get to Ballarat. Cranbourne would be easier for most people to get to in peak hour on a week night. Did they consider this ?
I rarely go to Melton on Friday nights due to the fact it takes me too long to get there from the northern suburbs. I would miss the first few races. I quite like the place when I do get there even with its issues.
Thanks for the link Kevin. I'm astounded that the sprint lane issue was not sorted before deciding the clubs !

[Amlin]

I imagine Cranbourne would be awful to get to for those across town in weekday peak hour. It was bad enough driving home from work in the City in 2004 so guessing it is worse now!

[Messenger]

I am down in Melbourne on one of my regular trips right now and every time I say to my wife:

"This city is stuffed" (in relation to the traffic)

[Showgrounds]

All will be OK with Cranbourne on a Saturday night. Our big-hearted government funded the expansion of the Monash Freeway to 5 lanes in each direction. When completed, the bottleneck will have moved from Stud Road to the Cranbourne turnoff, so those thinking hey are getting a good run will have to wait a few minutes more before realizing they have been sucked in. And, from next week, the first section of the new Skyrail on the Pakenham and Cranbourne rail lines, opens. This replaces multiple level crossings and those travelling by train will have a panoramic view of traffic jams.

Seriously, though, Cranbourne is a good choice and brings premier racing to Melbourne's south-east. I will be there, and that is something I have never said about Melton. And Cranbourne has a decent grandstand whereas Melton has something resembling rows of seats atop shipping containers!

[gutwagon]

Both Cranbourne and Melton/Ballarat are nightmares to get to from the wrong side of town on a week night between 4 and 7pm.
I was thinking with Ballarat area only having 100,000 population most of the crowd would be coming from Melbourne . With Cranbourne being within range of several million it would have more chance of a maximum crowd on a week night.
Most of the people driving to Ballarat will have to drive past the Melton track and will be thinking why don't they just save us the drive and have it here ?
I assume the whole show will be judged on turnover so maximum crowds won't be a major consideration.
Of course there is the fact that none of the 3 tracks can handle a large crowd so the days of 40,000 odd cramming in to see Preux Chevalier win an ID can not be relived.

[Showgrounds]

Cranbourne on a week night is to most fans the opposite to Melton on a weeknight to most in the south-east. Saturday night should be very good. I would argue Cranbourne is at least the equal of Melton when it comes to catering for a crowd.

And you can get there by Metro train (with a bus to the track). Try catching a choo-choo to Melton!

[David Martin]

Both Cranbourne and Melton/Ballarat are nightmares to get to from the wrong side of town on a week night between 4 and 7pm.
I was thinking with Ballarat area only having 100,000 population most of the crowd would be coming from Melbourne . With Cranbourne being within range of several million it would have more chance of a maximum crowd on a week night.
Most of the people driving to Ballarat will have to drive past the Melton track and will be thinking why don't they just save us the drive and have it here ?
I assume the whole show will be judged on turnover so maximum crowds won't be a major consideration.
Of course there is the fact that none of the 3 tracks can handle a large crowd so the days of 40,000 odd cramming in to see Preux Chevalier win an ID can not be relived.



Hi Rick,


Reading this it would appear that Melton, Cranbourne and Ballarat are all no good for hosting the ID, and presumably you would find a negative with any club chosen. It's disappointing that despite your long involvement in the industry, you continue to find negatives rather than look for ways to help promote the sport. On Saturday you said "I apologise for my negativity" and said that "I can't support it but will try not to criticise it until it's over." Well you made it to Monday....


I and others are working hard to turn every aspect of this industry around, and as part of that we want to make the first ID held in Melbourne for 10 years a successful event. I look forward to working with people who are similarly committed to the future of this industry.


David

[Messenger]

Hi Rick,


Reading this it would appear that Melton, Cranbourne and Ballarat are all no good for hosting the ID, and presumably you would find a negative with any club chosen. It's disappointing that despite your long involvement in the industry, you continue to find negatives rather than look for ways to help promote the sport. On Saturday you said "I apologise for my negativity" and said that "I can't support it but will try not to criticise it until it's over." Well you made it to Monday....


I and others are working hard to turn every aspect of this industry around, and as part of that we want to make the first ID held in Melbourne for 10 years a successful event. I look forward to working with people who are similarly committed to the future of this industry.


David

A bit harsh David, I see the logic Rick is applying - that Cranbourne midweek has millions to call upon that would not have to cross the city.
On the other hand Rick, I think you are being an optimist if you think there will be huge numbers driving past Melton to go to Ballarat - IMO the majority of the non locals at Ballarat will be from Melton

Maybe the real problem is that we do not have a true Metro track - one that would NOT require patrons on any fringe to drive across the city but simply into it (or better still have a public transport option)
Due to the failure of past administrations no such option exists

Another day (soon) maybe we need to decide whether this is the greatest impediment to maximizing the potential of our sport

[aussiebreno]

Hi Rick,


Reading this it would appear that Melton, Cranbourne and Ballarat are all no good for hosting the ID, and presumably you would find a negative with any club chosen. It's disappointing that despite your long involvement in the industry, you continue to find negatives rather than look for ways to help promote the sport. On Saturday you said "I apologise for my negativity" and said that "I can't support it but will try not to criticise it until it's over." Well you made it to Monday....


I and others are working hard to turn every aspect of this industry around, and as part of that we want to make the first ID held in Melbourne for 10 years a successful event. I look forward to working with people who are similarly committed to the future of this industry.


David

Rick still raised valid points. Any comment on those points, or that the initial idea of opening up the heats away from Melton was said to be to take the good horses to the people, yet its the two tracks geographically closest to Melton that have been chosen?

[arlington]

A rock and a hard place, any decision would have it's controversies. Our main track location possibly the crux of it. Turnover probably is king, for good reason. Possibly had to go with Cranbourne as one of the first venues. Just for interest sake, what if it turns out the figures are through the roof in all KPI's. Would you change venues next time around?

So, what about this sprint lane thing? If Ballarat adds one can they revert? What if there's a Ballarat meet following close behind the ID heats, wouldn't newcomers be expecting a sprint lane? What's wrong with no sprint lane?

[Messenger]

Wayne, I think it's human nature to like/expect consistency.
Imagine if the in the AFL finals they paid 9pts for a 50m goal at every ground except the MCG.
The punters bemoaning "If we had been playing interstate. ....."

[gutwagon]

David, I accept where the heats are being held and have been clear that I think they should all be at Melton. I just can't see the logic in not giving Cranbourne the week night heat as I have explained. Negativity and facts are two different things.
If I wasn't concerned for the future of our sport I wouldn't bother commenting or pouring thousands of dollars a year into it. You did ask for suggestions and with all respect in my time in the sport I have seen many people in your position come and go . Many just using the position to advance their political aspirations and having little regard for the mess they leave behind. The ID is a big chance to attract new people to the sport and I don't want it wasted. As you can see on this forum and on twitter I am not alone. People on these forums are the industry and we continue to only hear about major decisions after they have been made.

[Adaptor]

Cranbourne on a week night is to most fans the opposite to Melton on a weeknight to most in the south-east. Saturday night should be very good. I would argue Cranbourne is at least the equal of Melton when it comes to catering for a crowd.

And you can get there by Metro train (with a bus to the track). Try catching a choo-choo to Melton!

Really good points Trevor.
Train, bus or a good freeway, or join the half of greater Melbourne ( 2 or more million and counting) that are on that side !

I spent time living in Brooklyn in New york, and getting to the Meadowlands was: 3 subway lines, to a bus at the Port Authority, then brave the Lincoln Tunnel crush to Secaucaus and the racetrack stuck out like a sore thumb with Giant Stadium and the Continental Arena . In winter it snowed.
The reverse was ordinary as no buses left until after the last race, often after the 13th. But for the Saturday night racing especially the Hambletonian or Meadowlands Pace it was worth the hassle. I never drove there...way too hard.

Yonkers was even trickier. Subways to the last stop in the Bronx..then get a dollar cab, share it with as many fit in, or try and figure out the bus...in the Bronx !!!
Then about a mile ( walked a few times) to the Yonkers Track in one of the most unsavoury neighbourhoods you could imagine.
But it was worth it for the Yonkers Trot, and the Levi and any of the great stakes horses that scorched around the half miler..like Cams Cardshark, Western Ideal
The Panderosa, Windsong,s Legacy, Glidemaster etc, let alone the champion drivers, Campbell, La Chance, Pierce, Sears, Brennan, and once Bill O'Donnell.
I figure that for the most important races in the southern hemisphere, The Interdominion Pace and Trot, ....you get to whatever track the races are on, any way you can.
Bring it on !

[Njcstables]

David, I accept where the heats are being held and have been clear that I think they should all be at Melton. I just can't see the logic in not giving Cranbourne the week night heat as I have explained. Negativity and facts are two different things.
If I wasn't concerned for the future of our sport I wouldn't bother commenting or pouring thousands of dollars a year into it. You did ask for suggestions and with all respect in my time in the sport I have seen many people in your position come and go . Many just using the position to advance their political aspirations and having little regard for the mess they leave behind. The ID is a big chance to attract new people to the sport and I don't want it wasted. As you can see on this forum and on twitter I am not alone. People on these forums are the industry and we continue to only hear about major decisions after they have been made.

Rick from a horsemans perspective a midweek heat at Cranbourne would be a disaster. No one wants to travel horses to Cranbourne midweek with the traffic problems. I think Cranbourne on a Saturday is by far the best option.

As far as the the two tracks are concerned, I think hrv have picked the two best managed clubs in the state, both of which have the capacity and capabilities to cater for a big crowd.

As for the sprint lane issue. I don't think Ballarat will allow one and nor should they. I think It will actually enhance the challenge of winning an ID. Three heats at varying distances and at varying tracks followed by a final- the winner will have earned their place in history!

[arlington]

Rick from a horsemans perspective a midweek heat at Cranbourne would be a disaster. No one wants to travel horses to Cranbourne midweek with the traffic problems. I think Cranbourne on a Saturday is by far the best option.

As far as the the two tracks are concerned, I think hrv have picked the two best managed clubs in the state, both of which have the capacity and capabilities to cater for a big crowd.

As for the sprint lane issue. I don't think Ballarat will allow one and nor should they. I think It will actually enhance the challenge of winning an ID. Three heats at varying distances and at varying tracks followed by a final- the winner will have earned their place in history!

Hear hear Njc :)


Wayne, I think it's human nature to like/expect consistency.
Imagine if the in the AFL finals they paid 9pts for a 50m goal at every ground except the MCG.
The punters bemoaning "If we had been playing interstate. ....."

Stretching it Kev :p

A toss up for the decision makers, on the one hand the opportunity for possibly a greater spectacle, more moves, more action without the sprint lane.
In this context I think "we're" starting to move on with expectation/consistency/acceptance.
Thinking of a marketing jingle...both the Pacers & Trotters, both sprint lane and no sprint lane...how about Supernaut https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPabA2sVxn0 What do you think Kev?

[gutwagon]

Njc, horseman coming from the east of the state would say Ballarat mid week is also a disaster. I would assume all decisions about the clubs that got the heats and what nights they got were decided by who would provide the most money. Anyway all the important decisions have been made and there's nothing we can do about them.

[Messenger]

Hear hear Njc :)



Stretching it Kev :p

A toss up for the decision makers, on the one hand the opportunity for possibly a greater spectacle, more moves, more action without the sprint lane.
In this context I think "we're" starting to move on with expectation/consistency/acceptance.
Thinking of a marketing jingle...both the Pacers & Trotters, both sprint lane and no sprint lane...how about Supernaut https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPabA2sVxn0 What do you think Kev?

I am thinking just nought :eek:

[aussiebreno]

Cranbourne Cup has dropped from $100K in 2016 to $75K last year to $50K this year.

[Amlin]

Cranbourne Cup has dropped from $100K in 2016 to $75K last year to $50K this year.

Kilmore has probably dropped over same period. Horsham has cut theirs too but I think that money has been spread across the season. HRV funds each Cup equally (used to be the first $8000 of each Cup but has changed to a sliding structure). After a certain amount the rest is self funded by the club so these savings might either be getting spent elsewhere on stakes or perhaps the savings are necessary ones for the business.

[aussiebreno]

Kilmore has probably dropped over same period. Horsham has cut theirs too but I think that money has been spread across the season. HRV funds each Cup equally (used to be the first $8000 of each Cup but has changed to a sliding structure). After a certain amount the rest is self funded by the club so these savings might either be getting spent elsewhere on stakes or perhaps the savings are necessary ones for the business.
No Kilmore dropped a number of years ago and not quite so dramatic. Actually risen since they changed the timeslot. Horsham has been consistent for a number of years.
Reason Cranbourne is interesting is the earlier talk in this thread about making Cranbourne a bigger club.

[Amlin]

No Kilmore dropped a number of years ago and not quite so dramatic. Actually risen since they changed the timeslot. Horsham has been consistent for a number of years.
Reason Cranbourne is interesting is the earlier talk in this thread about making Cranbourne a bigger club.

Horsham goes from $70,000 last year to $50,000 this year with a change of timeslot. If these savings don't get reallocated by the club onto other races, we run the risk of seeing a drop in total stakes being given away for the year, unless HRV can dip into their own funds for extra races when noms allow, which then runs the risk of eating into profit (unless those extra races are run at $3500 as they make money of course)!

[Messenger]

The Cranbourne cup jumped from $60k to $100k in 2010 and got Im Themightyquinn but it only lasted 6 years. Once there was no cup in 2015 and the date changed to early 2016 (the last $100k cup), the field quality declined and so has the prize.

It is all about dates - to twist the saying: if you are only getting monkeys you can pay peanuts. Sorry it sounds disrespectful but this date does not work into the grand circuit calendar anymore

http://classicfamilies.net/cf/ClassicRaces.aspx?RaceID=1048

[aussiebreno]

Horsham goes from $70,000 last year to $50,000 this year with a change of timeslot. If these savings don't get reallocated by the club onto other races, we run the risk of seeing a drop in total stakes being given away for the year, unless HRV can dip into their own funds for extra races when noms allow, which then runs the risk of eating into profit (unless those extra races are run at $3500 as they make money of course)!
Has been hovering between $60 and $70 so a drop to $50K so the drop not as drastic. Also irrelevant as the relevance and point of posting that Cranbourne is dropping prizemoney has nothing to do with the ability to add extra races, but that IF there is talk within HRV of expanding the sport on that side of Melbourne than having the Cup prizemoney reduced doesn't bode well for that.




The Cranbourne cup jumped from $60k to $100k in 2010 and got Im Themightyquinn but it only lasted 6 years. Once there was no cup in 2015 and the date changed to early 2016 (the last $100k cup), the field quality declined and so has the prize.

It is all about dates - to twist the saying: if you are only getting monkeys you can pay peanuts. Sorry it sounds disrespectful but this date does not work into the grand circuit calendar anymore

http://classicfamilies.net/cf/ClassicRaces.aspx?RaceID=1048

Thanks Kev good point, timing and class drop can explain the drop in prizemoney (albeit Lenny and maybe even Kung Fu may have showed up for $100K?) However, IF there is talk within HRV of expanding the sport on that side of Melbourne should the date and prizemoney have been changed?

[Messenger]

Temporary sprint lane to be installed at Ballarat for ID18 heats

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/sprint-lane-changes-at-ballarat-for-id18-heats/

[Pogga]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! I need to get over it but it's hard. No sprint lane = better racing. Let the drivers race!

Anyway, time to move on...

[Richard prior]

Very interested to see which horses line up

[Messenger]

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/sprint-lane-changes-at-ballarat-for-id18-heats/

Rowse said the club remained firm in its resolve that its wide, long straight provided opportunities for all horses in the run to the finish line.

You only have to look at this race tonight to see that this statement is not true

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA250518&fromstate=vic#BAC25051806

It was like an old Showgrounds race = stack em up and sprint home so that despite a last quarter of 26.8 for an ordinary 1.58.4 for the mile which is way more than what the quinella pair can run

I am not necessarily an advocate for sprint lanes but either the whole state has them or the whole state does not have them

[Richard prior]

Totally agree Kev, All tracks or none at all

[gutwagon]

Kevin, that's called a good drive by the winner, not his fault that nobody made any moves. He looked to have the one on his back covered at the finish. I was more concerned that the 3 outside runners were out of position at the start ( didn't score up to the mobile) and stewards made no comment in results. Maybe it will be in the stewards report !

[Messenger]

I agree that it is a good drive but a boring race - they were the type I loved winning on at the Showgrounds
The only way we were going to get a 'race' was if Tam Major decided not to opt for the sit but with the distance being 1609m it was going to be a big ask from the death and why ask for such an effort when it was only a minor feature race worth $8550 to the winner

[Messenger]

The prizemoney has been announced - bordering on pathetic IMO even if grassroots harness is more important

For pacers, the prizemoney will be distributed across three rounds of three heats ($30,000 per heat), a $50,000 Consolation Final and a $500,000 Group 1 Grand Final, while for trotters there will be three rounds of two trotting heats ($20,000 a heat) and a $150,000 Group 1 Grand Final.

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Inter-Dom-hosts-agree-to-prizemoney-until-2020

[aussiebreno]

The prizemoney has been announced - bordering on pathetic IMO even if grassroots harness is more important

For pacers, the prizemoney will be distributed across three rounds of three heats ($30,000 per heat), a $50,000 Consolation Final and a $500,000 Group 1 Grand Final, while for trotters there will be three rounds of two trotting heats ($20,000 a heat) and a $150,000 Group 1 Grand Final.

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Inter-Dom-hosts-agree-to-prizemoney-until-2020
Hopefully still enough to get all the good ones there. Chicago Bull may elect to stay home and be ready for the WA races in January.
Have to be careful taking away from your showcase races. The racing spring carnival with all the feature races is what gets new throroughbred fans. Was talking to the Mrs about what race meetings we could go to at Melton in the coming 12 months and the Vic Cup meeting didnt make the shortlist due to it no longer being a top race/meeting.

[Pogga]

Thankfully the Bull is confirmed as almost a certain starter regardless of the prizemoney but sheez it's a kick in the pants for our premier race, and more so for the trotters.


I know the finances are bad, we have issues with participants trying to make a liviing out of the sport etc etc but for mine, a 55% drop on last years Inters isn't good enough.


Anyway, that aint going to change now unless a major sponsor pops up out of the blue. We have to positively promote the race as much as we possibly can regardless to get the public focus back on the sport for the right reasons. From people that are paid to do so on Harness Racing Boards, right down to Joe the punter who loves the trots.


Spread the word, promote positively & hopefully in time, prizemoney will come... hopefully...

[Dot]

It is a dissapointing amount but not unexpected, Alexandra Park telegraphed a final at that level in the original press releases regarding the joint series, and I think no one is unaware now as to the state of the industries finances.

Hopefully as you say Steve a sponsor will step up but I'm wondering if the 3 club agreement poses any difficulties with that. Regardless of the prizemoney it is our premier brand event and as Steve said everyone needs to get behind it.

I've little doubt that the circumstances surrounding the prizemoney levels of the WA Inter Dominions were unique and it is unfair to draw direct comparisons between the two ID series.

[Messenger]

Gallops would take a massive hit without sponsorship. If we cannot attract them, we had better figure out why and do something about it.

[David Martin]

Hi everyone,
Whilst we would all like to see large amounts of prizemoney being offered for our feature events, the reality is that at the moment no harness state in Australia, nor NZ can afford to put up Inter Dominion (ID) prizemoney like that. WA couldn't afford to continue hosting the event (certainly not at that prizemoney level) and without collaboration between Vic/NSW/NZ, there would not have been a bidder at all for HRA to consider and the future of the ID would have been uncertain. As I have been talking about during recent roadshows, we're making improvements in Victoria and turning things around. We will be providing the industry and public with an ID event in 2018 that will re-engage previous Trots lovers and people who haven't been before.
Cheers, David

[gutwagon]

I thing we should be lowering the top prizemoney and increasing the bottom prizemoney . The majority of participants rely on the bottom end money to survive from week to week.

[Richard prior]

More of a spread, Good idea

[Messenger]

The ID18 website is up and running

https://www.id18.com.au/

[Messenger]

The second rankings are out

https://www.id18.com.au/rankings/

[Messenger]

The third round of ranking are out.

This link takes directly to the pacers rankings

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5aa9dbb412b13f9aecc169e3/t/5bd8e1f74ae237be6baae826/1540940280591/ID18+Pacing+Rankings+%28v3%29.pdf

This link takes you directly to the trotters rankings

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5aa9dbb412b13f9aecc169e3/t/5bd8e0c74d7a9c6813cc10c1/1540939976788/ID18+Trotting+Rankings+%28v3%29.pdf

[Adaptor]

The third round of ranking are out.

This link takes directly to the pacers rankings

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5aa9dbb412b13f9aecc169e3/t/5bd8e1f74ae237be6baae826/1540940280591/ID18+Pacing+Rankings+%28v3%29.pdf

This link takes you directly to the trotters rankings

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5aa9dbb412b13f9aecc169e3/t/5bd8e0c74d7a9c6813cc10c1/1540939976788/ID18+Trotting+Rankings+%28v3%29.pdf

Menin Gate huge shortener: 72 to 73 to the all the way down to 23.

If he's right for the series, he's a better chance with the 3 heats in one week than San Carlo ranked 6.

[Dot]

That’s a bold call Noel, well sort of anyway, do we take it if Menin Gate doesn’t handle the three heats in a week that he wasn’t right for the series rather then he just didn’t handle three heats in a week?

I seem to recall San Carlo handling the three heats in a week pretty good in Perth last year, including winning one and making the final. Drew poorly in the final and raced at the rear of the field pulling hard which does your chances no good in that company. Cant see why that experience won’t hold him and connections in good stead this time around.

As an aside the SBSW stock so far have been at their best as juveniles more so then as aged horses here and in the states, Menin Gate would need to buck that trend.

[Adaptor]

That’s a bold call Noel, well sort of anyway, do we take it if Menin Gate doesn’t handle the three heats in a week that he wasn’t right for the series rather then he just didn’t handle three heats in a week?

I seem to recall San Carlo handling the three heats in a week pretty good in Perth last year, including winning one and making the final. Drew poorly in the final and raced at the rear of the field pulling hard which does your chances no good in that company. Cant see why that experience won’t hold him and connections in good stead this time around.

As an aside the SBSW stock so far have been at their best as juveniles more so then as aged horses here and in the states, Menin Gate would need to buck that trend.


It was a bold call ( with the benefit of hindsight).
It was a shock to see Menin Gate fade quickly in the mile on Saturday night after racing in the death after Mick battled to hold him
Need to rethink.

The stewards said:
Michael Stanley, trainer/driver of Menin Gate, was questioned regarding the performance of the gelding which finished in 8th and last placing beaten 31m. Mr Stanley explained that Menin Gate was racing very keenly during the early stages and as a result he was unable to restrain the gelding to obtain a position with cover. Mr Stanley further explained as a result he elected to improve forward three wide, however upon improving three wide and thereafter Menin Gate failed to race keenly and in his opinion in a genuine manner. Mr Stanley explained that Menin Gate appeared to pull up well following the event and it would be his intention to employ gear changes to ensure that Menin Gate races more keenly in future, particularly when unable to lead. Post-race veterinary examination of Menin Gate, inclusive of an endoscopic examination, failed to reveal any obvious abnormalities. Mr Stanley will be contacted in the coming days relative to the progress of Menin Gate subsequent to the event.

[Dot]

Yes bit of a body blow for MG supporters I think Noel and looks as if Micheal Stanley has a challenge on his hands to get MG both racing tractably and trying in all circumstances in the series. Could have his fans chewing their fingernails I’d think, but he may not be the only one to have to get it all right for the three runs in a week.

One doing his credentials no harm that may be flying under the radar for you southerners is Joes Star Of Mia. He too will have to handle the three heats and presently his connections space his runs but he looks on the improve at the right time could be one to spring a surprise

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mgmHhVR7aiQ

[Dot]

I know Noel for one is rethinking his position on Menin Gate but I think San Carlo was sending Menin Gate a message on how it’s done in today’s Yarra Valley cup! Restrain from wide draw, saunter up 3 wide as required, oh there’s the death seat now and see you later!

[Adaptor]

I know Noel for one is rethinking his position on Menin Gate but I think San Carlo was sending Menin Gate a message on how it’s done in today’s Yarra Valley cup! Restrain from wide draw, saunter up 3 wide as required, oh there’s the death seat now and see you later!

So
While San Carlo cruises to 2 cup wins, Menin Gate recovers;

Michael Stanley, trainer of Menin Gate, advised that blood tests taken from the gelding revealed it to be suffering from a virus. Mr Stanley added that other horses within his care, which have been tested, are also showing signs of a similar virus. Menin Gate and other horses within the care of Mr Stanley will treated prior to racing again.

[Dot]

I think tomorrow would have been a better time to release this.......

Tuesday 13 November, 2018

It is an exciting time in harness racing with the 2018 TAB Inter Dominion almost upon us.

As has been well documented, this is the first time since 2008 that Australasia’s greatest harness racing series has been held in Victoria and everybody involved is determined to make it the best ever.

I wanted to take this opportunity to update the industry on ID18 progress because in coming days you will hear and see our new advertising promotion across a wide range of channels and formats.

We have worked closely with a number of market leading agencies to conduct bespoke market research. This research has delivered insights, which have formed the basis of our communications strategy and creative ID18 consumer campaigns.

All good campaigns need a theme and, for the 2018 TAB Inter Dominion, our campaign is titled Lap it Up! I won’t go into any more detail, but from Wednesday you’ll see ID18 billboards up in prominent locations across Melbourne and surrounding areas – including on the major arterials such as the Westgate Freeway in South Melbourne.

We have actually created a multimedia communications approach, focusing on reaching identified audience segments in Victoria utilising a mix of Metro & Regional Free to Air & Pay TV, Press & Radio, Out of Home (Large Format Highway Billboards, Buses & Shopping Centres) and Digital channels.

We’ll have ID18 mobile billboards in and around Cranbourne and Ballarat, with both clubs hosting heat nights, and prominent advertising will be displayed at shopping centres around all three host clubs including Woodgrove, Stockland Wendouree, Cranbourne Park and Cranbourne Homemaker Centre.

We have the full back of five buses operating throughout Ballarat and Cranbourne, as well as 20 city-side bus portraits throughout Melbourne CBD through to the western suburbs.

We’ve developed a modern and colourful television commercial, which will be aired prominently on metro and regional free-to-air television and Sky Racing, as well as digitally via HRV’s social media channels. The ad will also play in the lead-up to all races on both Trackside Big Screens and Trots Vision at thetrots.com.au as well as embedded into YouTube Trueview.

Our advertising presence on radio will be stronger than ever before and we’ve pushed into non-racing markets via Melbourne’s most popular AM station 3AW and its sports affiliate station Macquarie Sports Radio, as well as SEN and throughout regional Victoria via our media partner Crocmedia. We’re also targeting the important FM listenership via airspace on Triple M and Nova100.

We’ll be unveiling our most extensive editorial and advertising push ever across our radio broadcast partner RSN, which will feature interviews on the breakfast show and Racing Pulse, as well as our regular weekly features such as Gait Speed and One Out, One Back. You’ll also hear the ID18 message spruiked prior to every Victorian trots race broadcast on RSN.

Melbourne’s favourite daily paper the Herald Sun has committed to providing coverage leading up to the event this year in the sports pages, as well as the popular form guide the lift-outs we have booked in the weeks of the ID18 series.

The Age has also expressed interest in the event, while HRV and Tabcorp Park have aligned with the Moorabool News and Star Weekly to deliver the ID18 message into those important local, community markets through colourful and informative storytelling.

Currently the ID18 trophy is touring New Zealand to promote the event during NZ Cup Week, with a number of top-class Kiwi horses, trainers and drivers to target the series.

On the track our fourth and final rankings update will be unveiled on Wednesday November 21, where the top 36 pacers to contest the ID18 pacing series and the top 24 trotters to contest the ID18 trotting series will be revealed.

Importantly, it is fitting that the return of the pinnacle of Australasian harness racing to Victoria after a 10-year hiatus will have a national television audience with the Seven Network having signed on to provide a 1.5-hour live coverage of the Inter Dominion Pacing and Trotting finals across five capital cities Australia wide and right throughout regional Victoria.

We have also entered into an Event Partnership with EQUITANA Melbourne 2018, which is the largest equine showcase in the southern hemisphere, expected to attract 50,000 spectators at the Melbourne Showgrounds (November 15-18) making it the perfect lead-up event to ID18.

Finally, the launch first of our official ID18 events, the Welcome Cocktail Party at the Woolstore & Co in North Melbourne is just over a fortnight away. Details on all the ID18 events can be found at ID18.com.au


Dale Monteith, HRV Chairman

[Messenger]

It sounds good
(however I will believe the bit about The Age when I see it)

[arlington]

Wondering if we might add a little pomp and ceremony to the ID heats. More particularly the competitors, the horses.

Some feedback from friends (a family unit) who attended the Cranbourne Cup. Whilst on-course, children's entertainment, was good, they thought the focus on the horse was lacking.

Whether it might be too time consuming and repetitive during the heats, but each heat/venue is likely to have a big percentage of one heat attendees, the horses individually announced as they enter the track?
Perhaps a couple of HERO mounted buglers strut on to the track at the winning post as the horses are about to come out. Something that let's the crowd know the main attraction's about to commence.

These friends are located in the south east and most likely going to head to the Cranbourne heats. Probably not entirely a coincidence but the adult male competed in the pony trot on Preux Chevalier's ID night. Has pretty well been lost to the sport since.

Something not relevant to the ID but would making the cost of admission redeemable at the dining room be an avenue to attract people and families? Was mentioned in the conversation, instead of going to a family hotel for dinner, why not pop out to the trots for dinner and a look.

Something I'd love to see and hear for a big event like this is, the connections of each horse pick a song to head out on to the track to. No doubt there would be royalties involved...may not be ceremonial but revs it up a bit.
Have fantasised over the years which song we would pick, changes with time and horse, but these days it would have to be some Emerson, Lake & Palmer. :)

[Dot]

So
While San Carlo cruises to 2 cup wins, Menin Gate recovers;

Michael Stanley, trainer of Menin Gate, advised that blood tests taken from the gelding revealed it to be suffering from a virus. Mr Stanley added that other horses within his care, which have been tested, are also showing signs of a similar virus. Menin Gate and other horses within the care of Mr Stanley will treated prior to racing again.

Menin Gate injured, out of ID18 and retired back to the farm at Birchip, dissapointment for connections but they were aware his comeback could be short lived, sorry Noel.

[Messenger]

"Wondering if we might add a little pomp and ceremony to the ID heats. More particularly the competitors, the horses."


Wayne, as I have said before - we could learn plenty from the French

[Messenger]

I guess most would know by now that the draws were done on Monday but if you missed it

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/id18-heats-barriers-drawn-for-opening-night/

Or for the full fields

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX011218

[Messenger]

I am going all jingoistic and barracking for the only All Aussie bred (immediate family anyway)

Conviction = For A Reason x Safely Grattan

[Messenger]

Len Baker's preview

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=38897

[Messenger]

Great to see the first 2 pacing heats were interesting keenly contested affairs

[Dot]

Great work to see the jog track at Ballarat being put to good use to provide some camera angles we don’t usually see. Pat on the back for whoever came up with that!!

[aussiebreno]

A drive like that would have got Tiger Tara over the line in most races he has been in over the past 6 months. I think Todd will learn from that drive though leading into races like the Interdominion.

18months on and the next Interdomion on and Todd hasn't learnt. 26.6 3rd quarter was not needed tonight. If goes 27 or 27.5 3rd quarter we would be looking at Tiger Tara being favourite next week.

[aussiebreno]

18months on and the next Interdomion on and Todd hasn't learnt. 26.6 3rd quarter was not needed tonight. If goes 27 or 27.5 3rd quarter we would be looking at Tiger Tara being favourite next week.

And sure I might be armchair driving and couldn't judge the pace myself, but C Alford, G Lang, L McCarthy, N Jack, G Sugars etc seem to be able to do it.

[Messenger]

The Cranbourne heats got progressively quicker but the last half of each one were nearly all the same

54.8 54.8 55.0

[arlington]

A pity ID19 won't be in Vic, would be looking forward to Shepparton defending the pacing title next year.
Massive run San Carlo, I reckon his prep has included the possibility of a run like last night's. Might have to take what's on offer before the barrier draw falls in his favour :)

[teecee]

They surely would be giving the wooden spoon to you rather than the last placegetter

[aussiebreno]

Draw for the final is out.

So Galactic Star leads (surely Mach Doro and Maximan understand there place?), and should hand up. Who gets to him first, Pats Delight or Spankem? Pats Delight was only fair out when he drew #2 in heat 2 but wasnt pushed, Spankem wasn't bustled out when he drew the front in one heat either. Who of those two will cross first? Gav did show aggression night one so hoping he does here too.

Tiger Tara should go across to the death and the way he went in the Vic Cup and NZ Cup the $7.50 available absolutely astounds me. If Cruz Bromac comes knocking keep him posted.

San Carlo only hope is if Galactic Star holds the lead and then he is a big hope but I dont think that will happen.

Cruz Bromac is every bit as good as the 4yos and Tiger Tara but I think will be found out a bit from this draw.

1. Tiger Tara
2. Pats Delight
3. Galactic Star
4. Spankem
5. San Carlo
6. Cruz Bromac

[Dot]

Mach Doro crosses for mine, then hands up to Tiger Tara, Spankem to death early, Pats Delight on his back and then Spankem hands up to Cruz Bromac when he comes round. 4yos let the older horses do the bulk of the work before hoping fresher younger legs can out sprint them to the line.

[Messenger]

The draws if you missed them

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/ID18-final-draws

[gutwagon]

I think Spankem and Cruz Bromac will both stay towards the rear of the field and one will give the other a nice cart up in the final lap. Expect to see them finish in the first 4. Would love to see San Carlo win !

[Messenger]

I see the 7TWO timeslot for Saturday night is 9.00 - 10.30
With the Trotters Final at 9.08 and the Pacers at 9.45
It would seem to me that we could do with more lead in time and less after time unless the $30k mares race at 10.15 is supposed to be of interest

[arlington]

I see the 7TWO timeslot for Saturday night is 9.00 - 10.30
With the Trotters Final at 9.08 and the Pacers at 9.45
It would seem to me that we could do with more lead in time and less after time unless the $30k mares race at 10.15 is supposed to be of interest

Having one of your main bouts straight up will keep the viewers tuned in rather than having to wait 40 minutes?
Might a 6pm start on the west coast be more ideal than a 5:30 start?

Just hoping there's some promotion across the 7 suite.
With Escape to the Country either side, a rural training story might be on the cards? Has anyone seen Neil Kearney out and about? :cool:

[Messenger]

I agree that you wouldn't want much more lead in but you would need 13 minutes. 5 mins to paint the picture and build the excitement. Then they will want a 3 min ad break. Then 5 mins to go through the runners
I just think it would have been better if the race had been scheduled 5 or so mins later (7two are going to want to start on the hour or half hour)
A lot of promotion across the 7 suite in the hour leading up to it would be good as normally only around 1-2% of viewers watch 7two

[gutwagon]

You're assuming they are going to show the trotters final live, would not surprise me if they only show the pacers final on 7two. I hope I'm wrong !

[Dot]

Doesn’t the coverage follow on from the conclusion of the cricket? Not much buffer for the trotters if the cricket goes over time. So good point Rick wonder if the trotters is intended to be shown live in the coverage

[aussiebreno]

Media releases about Seven showing the ID made mention of the trotters.

[Messenger]

I hope Tornado Valley wins the trotters final.
Some will say that $250k of prizemoney in 10mths is an incredible return
but any horse that has won 15 Group races in a calendar year deserves a lot more

[arlington]

Good to see female representation with Brittany Graham as one of the hosts tonight on 7TWO.
As much as the guys are all handsome devils, it's well and truly time harness racing tapped into girls just want to have fun on a permanent basis.

[arlington]

Have searched a little for San Carlo's quickest closing sectional, not sure if he's dropped into the 25's. Has been close but pretty sure he has a quick 190m in him. :)

[Messenger]

Amazing to think that John Caldow has never had a drive in an Inter Final
Until drive 26,215

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/after-26-210-starts-john-caldow-ready-for-his-first-inter-dominion-final/

[Messenger]

Over breakfast this morning I say to my wife "It is the Interdominion tonight Honey"
and she replies "I know, I saw it on Ch7 news"
but then she goes onto to say that "they led in with Essendon and Carlton are usually rivals but some past or present players are partners in a horse ... however they then tell us that this horse is not running as it is injured" WTF - my words not hers
The second part of the segment sounded a bit better "A husband that trains and his wife drives"

Incredible to see us make it into The Age with the Tiger Tara comeback from the car crash story

[aussiebreno]

Have searched a little for San Carlo's quickest closing sectional, not sure if he's dropped into the 25's. Has been close but pretty sure he has a quick 190m in him. :)

I think Galactic Star has to hand up for this reason. I reckon Galactic Star more chance of sprinting down one of the others than he is of holding off San Carlo after 2700m.

[Messenger]

As Rob Auber said, it was a fantastic call by Dan to purvey the excitement of Conviction running them off their legs in the 4th

[Messenger]

Channel 7 coverage has been very good so far (and no ad until 17min in)
Mick Guerin is the pick of the team so far - providing a lot of detailed info for those watching who may not be harness experts

Well done Tornado Valley but I hope the pacers final might be a little more exciting

[Messenger]

We wanted a special win and we got one
Ch7 are certainly trying to pack plenty into the 90min - it would have been a dream for it to have been on their main channel

[aussiebreno]

Draw for the final is out.

So Galactic Star leads (surely Mach Doro and Maximan understand there place?), and should hand up. Who gets to him first, Pats Delight or Spankem? Pats Delight was only fair out when he drew #2 in heat 2 but wasnt pushed, Spankem wasn't bustled out when he drew the front in one heat either. Who of those two will cross first? Gav did show aggression night one so hoping he does here too.

Tiger Tara should go across to the death and the way he went in the Vic Cup and NZ Cup the $7.50 available absolutely astounds me. If Cruz Bromac comes knocking keep him posted.

San Carlo only hope is if Galactic Star holds the lead and then he is a big hope but I dont think that will happen.

Cruz Bromac is every bit as good as the 4yos and Tiger Tara but I think will be found out a bit from this draw.

1. Tiger Tara
2. Pats Delight
3. Galactic Star
4. Spankem
5. San Carlo
6. Cruz Bromac
Missed with the analysis but got the winner! $9 during the week for a horse who beat Chicago Bull (one of last seasons top 3 genuine stars) in the Vic Cup and was the run of the race by a mile in the NZ Cup. Unbelievable!

[Messenger]

Sensational price Brendan.
With a different draw a $104 pop may have won the Trotters Final

[gutwagon]

We need 7Two to do that every Melton meeting. Personally I would replace all the hosts but that's just my opinion.