Fremantle Cup 2018

[Messenger]

Lazarus - beaten a head but the greatest run of all time?

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=GP120118#GPM12011815

[Greg Hando]

Totally agree no other horse would have finished doing the work he did G Hall bad drive if I was the owner would be very disappointed with it should have taken 1x1 IMO

[arlington]

The work Laz did, they could hitch a road train full of cattle to him and haul across the Nullarbor for the Hunter Cup.

Was Hall Snr the only one who breathed a sigh of relief when "Rasmussen actually punched threw.." ? Sulky contact, lucky there wasn't a puncture.

Can I ask, what happened to Breno's post?

[Messenger]

The work Laz did, they could hitch a road train full of cattle to him and haul across the Nullarbor for the Hunter Cup.

Was Hall Snr the only one who breathed a sigh of relief when "Rasmussen actually punched threw.." ? Sulky contact, lucky there wasn't a puncture.

Can I ask, what happened to Breno's post?

For a split second I thought Rasmussen was going to let the boss in - wouldn't that have caused a sensation!

(Breno deleted his own perfectly fine post)

[Mighty Atom]

:)
Totally agree no other horse would have finished doing the work he did G Hall bad drive if I was the owner would be very disappointed with it should have taken 1x1 IMO

Bad drive or not that is the way the Hall stable strategized the race, as Hall Snr said, he didn't want a repeat of the ID final. The All Stars have been great over here in the West although A Piccadilly Princess has struggled against the better horses. Ultimate Machette outstanding against the lesser horses but found it a harder task against that field last night. As brilliant as Lazarus is he has been beaten three times in the West but I do not believe any of these horses will suffer defeat on the East coast unless they face off against Vincent.

[Mighty Atom]

An exciting call of the Fremantle Cup last night by Richard Bell but he does need to be a little more accurate in calling the unplaced horses.

He was all over the place after Ultimate Machette, he actually called Soho Tribeca 10th instead of a clear 5th.

[Messenger]

Totally agree no other horse would have finished doing the work he did G Hall bad drive if I was the owner would be very disappointed with it should have taken 1x1 IMO

It would seem the owners were in on the plan Greg

"Chicago Bull will go forward and if Bettors Fire (barrier one) doesn’t hand up, we will keep the breeze and keep Lazarus three wide when he comes", he said.

“Everyone has got Lazarus past the post and If we just let him go to the breeze, the race will develop into a walk with a sprint home and Chicago Bull can’t win then. We can’t make it easy for Lazarus. My owners don’t want to make it easy for him. I think Chicago Bull can win, but he will need a lot of luck."

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/No-certainties-in-racing---Lazarus-beaten

[Fan of Jate]

Perfect planning by G.Hall Snr, have seen it many times at GP over the years. Purdon knew what was happening but couldnt do anything about it. Lazarus has had 2 good draws of late which suited him perfectly but it is a bit tougher coming out of 5 and 3 wide for a good part of the journey.

[Messenger]

Perfect planning by G.Hall Snr, have seen it many times at GP over the years. Purdon knew what was happening but couldnt do anything about it. Lazarus has had 2 good draws of late which suited him perfectly but it is a bit tougher coming out of 5 and 3 wide for the whole journey.

Edited for accuracy Pat :)

[Fan of Jate]

No one has said a word about my hard copy.!!!!! hello......he actually won the race, it was his 2nd Fremantle cup and he also has won a WA pacing cup. so he is no mug. Lazarus ended up the bridesmaid......If you want to say it maybe the greatest run ever...I dont think so. If he had won then yes, it could have been afforded that title. Just a thought Kev, the first 800m was a lot of horses trying to get a position so that could not be counted as the whole journey, others ended up 3 wide as well :) which is why i said most of the journey. I will give you 1800 metres. Other good horses have won going 3 wide that distance and dont forget those champions of the past who used to win off 60 yards

[Messenger]

No one has said a word about my hard copy.!!!!! hello......he actually won the race, it was his 2nd Fremantle cup and he also has won a WA pacing cup. so he is no mug. Lazarus ended up the bridesmaid......If you want to say it maybe the greatest run ever...I dont think so. If he had won then yes, it could have been afforded that title. Just a thought Kev, the first 800m was a lot of horses trying to get a position so that could not be counted as the whole journey, others ended up 3 wide as well :) which is why i said most of the journey. I will give you 1800 metres. Other good horses have won going 3 wide that distance and dont forget those champions of the past who used to win off 60 yards

He was at least 3 wide for 2536m of the 2536m race Pat - there is nothing to debate

I don't think anybody is forgetting the champions of the past
The reason for rating the hd defeat so highly was the calibre of the field and the time run (While sitting 3w the entire journey)

[Mighty Atom]

No one has said a word about my hard copy.!!!!! hello......he actually won the race, it was his 2nd Fremantle cup and he also has won a WA pacing cup. so he is no mug. Lazarus ended up the bridesmaid......If you want to say it maybe the greatest run ever...I dont think so. If he had won then yes, it could have been afforded that title. Just a thought Kev, the first 800m was a lot of horses trying to get a position so that could not be counted as the whole journey, others ended up 3 wide as well :) which is why i said most of the journey. I will give you 1800 metres. Other good horses have won going 3 wide that distance and dont forget those champions of the past who used to win off 60 yards

Hi Pat,
Actually, it's two WA Pacing Cups and now a Fremantle Cup and IMO the horse was a certainty beaten in 2016 AG Hunter Cup finishing third, My Hard Copy is no bum and can be lethal off a fast pace.
A little too much obsequiousness is rained upon Lazarus after all he has a 3/3 win-loss ratio over here and didn't he finish third in the 2017 Miracle Mile; no doubt he is a champion racehorse but the horse is not unbeatable.
On saying that he will probably win the WA Pacing Cup but can we just settle down a little with the accolades.:D

[teecee]

Compliments All Stars website

NOT LOOKING GOOD FOR LAZARUS FOR WA CUP -MARK'S "GUT FEELING" - IT COULD BE LONGER

it looks like just a bruise in the foot and I think that is what it is. Gut feeling ? I think the Hunter Cup could be in doubt. But that is only a gut feeling. With some luck it won't be as bad as that" Mark said Sunday after a foot injury struck superstar pacer Lazarus which is likely to force him out of the WA Cup on Friday.
And that might not be the end of it.
With a concentrated run of features over the next month time is vital, it past Friday that the Lazarus team has to look at and he will need good news in the next few days to keep the full race programme alive. His next assignment is the Hunter Cup (February 3) a severe staying test which means any missed work becomes vital.
Mark was caught three wide throughout the Fremantle Cup but had no alternative.
"The front wasn't there. They weren't going to make if easy for us and on a track like that the bends come up so quick you done't have time for much more than we were doing"

NATALIE REPORTS
"It was a tough run from Ultimate Machete but he came out of it a little lame. Mark will be assessing that for next week but he was very happy with him going into the race so we will have to cross fingers there. He has quite a lot coming g up too. We pro ably needed a bit more room when it counted but you could not take anything from Lazarus. That was just amazing.

[Fan of Jate]

Hi Pat,
Actually, it's two WA Pacing Cups

Cheers Rod for correcting that statistical inaccuracy. Lazarus would surely be placed in the WA pacing cup if he was to run in it due to the fact he has never missed a place in 41 starts, a record which speaks for itself. I dont care which horse it is but if scribes think a horse is going to start favourite and win all the group 1 races at GP in any one season then they need to study their history first. Lazarus would win them if he drew 1/2/3/4 but wider than that it is a different story especially if you have gut busters like the Friday night race and then have to back up.

Kev, Richard Bell can be a good caller but does make a few mistakes, I had a horse there racing once and it took him 3 races before he actually got to call the horses name correctly.

[Fan of Jate]

1977-78 season from the archives


In January Pure Steel won the Western Australian Pacing Cup for the second consecutive year, this time breaking the race record. The following month he travelled to Melbourne for the Hunter Cup and was successful in recording a remarkable staying performance. Pure Steel sat without cover outside of leader Rip Van Winkle for most of the 2800m but won convincingly in track record time. ‘The gutsiest thing on four legs’ said driver Ted Demmler.[2] The race is still regarded by many as one of the greatest ever run at Moonee Valley[4]


These are the types of great performances that people remember and what lazarus performance has to be compared against, winning is everything when you talk about all time great performances.

[Messenger]

You just need imagination Pat.
Lazarus holds on and even you would be calling it phenomenal
Winning from the death is an accepted strategy nowadays but nobody sits 3 wide and does it (running time) - I don't think we will see the likes of it again
I will remember his performance
Winning is everything because it suits your argument but I don't deny that it is the one at the top of the list in the records and in time, that is all that people see/have to go on

[arlington]

I'll remember Laz's effort for a fair while but the wins do get remembered more.

Adding one to the mind blowing 3 wide efforts which was a win. Not open class and shorter distance, Lombo Rapida's 2000 Chariots win on a rain affected 1/2 mile circuit. Probably wouldn't remember as much if she didn't win, but her being a female makes the run stand out. A pity there's no video footage.

[Toohard]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11975048

Calculations say he covered 56ms extra. Means he ran mile rate 1.52.8 over nearly 2600m.

[Messenger]

For a split second I thought Rasmussen was going to let the boss in - wouldn't that have caused a sensation!

(Breno deleted his own perfectly fine post)

I now know I am not the only one that thought NR eased to let MP in - I reckon MP quick enough to realize they would be shot if he had taken the 1x1

[Fan of Jate]

Kev, I just dropped in a comparison to lazarus's performance because you did put a question mark to it which to me indicates some type of participation or answer in what you raised. I wasnt arguing about it.

Not only that, it opened up the forum topic to others who have remembered great performances in the past especially those older guys who were around watching Pure Steel, Hondo Grattan etc. Great performances do get forgotten over time especially now that tracks are faster leading to crazy mile rates and horses have better avenues to medical treatment etc.

[arlington]

I now know I am not the only one that thought NR eased to let MP in - I reckon MP quick enough to realize they would be shot if he had taken the 1x1


Stewards report's up Kev or have you seen it?

[niloc]

pure steel sat 3 wide for an entire miracle mile, i know cause i was there!!.the time was not flash but the courage was immeasurable,big class difference between a miracle mile and a fremantle cup.oh yes and pure steel did win that miracle mile,so let's not get carried away with that great run.

[Mighty Atom]

pure steel sat 3 wide for an entire miracle mile, i know cause i was there!!.the time was not flash but the courage was immeasurable,big class difference between a miracle mile and a fremantle cup.oh yes and pure steel did win that miracle mile,so let's not get carried away with that great run.

Agreed Colin, Pure Steel, pure guts and determination, I will never forget his 1980 AG Hunter Cup win when he sat on the outside of Paleface Adios all the way and went on to win with the great sit/sprinter Koala

King unable to run him down. The call of that race was remarkable. Pure Steel, my all time favourite until I'm Themightyquinn came along.:)

Footnote. They actually measured the stride of Pure Steel in full flight....... 7.9 metres or 26 feet. incredible.

[Messenger]

Kev, I just dropped in a comparison to lazarus's performance because you did put a question mark to it which to me indicates some type of participation or answer in what you raised. I wasnt arguing about it.

Not only that, it opened up the forum topic to others who have remembered great performances in the past especially those older guys who were around watching Pure Steel, Hondo Grattan etc. Great performances do get forgotten over time especially now that tracks are faster leading to crazy mile rates and horses have better avenues to medical treatment etc.

Yep the ? was there for discussion and I like the comparisons (being an old guy myself).
I was only really arguing about the run being 3w :D

[Messenger]

pure steel sat 3 wide for an entire miracle mile, i know cause i was there!!.the time was not flash but the courage was immeasurable,big class difference between a miracle mile and a fremantle cup.oh yes and pure steel did win that miracle mile,so let's not get carried away with that great run.

It was a great run Colin but he only sat 3w for the last lap (most of the first lap he was on the fence last)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXObwKQe9NQ

The MM only has 6 runners and apart from Pure Steel, Paleface and Markovina (skittled fav) were the other stars that year - this year's Freo Cup was not too shabby

[Messenger]

Stewards report's up Kev or have you seen it?

Yes thanks Wayne, it reads like a Mark Purdon interview. The video is not really good enough (angle) to tell but looking at Bettors and the Bull you could not be sure if they quickened to cause Ultimate Machete to drop back a couple of metres

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/stewards-reports/stewards-reports-detail/?mc=GP120118

[Danno]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11975048

Calculations say he covered 56ms extra. Means he ran mile rate 1.52.8 over nearly 2600m.

Hey folks, yes Pure Steel sat 3 wide for an "entire Miracle Mile" a very slow miracle mile and the MM is over approximately 1600 metres not 2600....as Paul has pointed out, Lazarus's effort was OUTSTANDING, I know there are a few among us that have been around a while, who can remember ANY other incident either side of the ditch where a group one race over further than the mile was won by a horse sitting 3 wide the entire journey?? Bit of a harness tragic as some of you know the answer is ZERO, how about you all give the horse and his camp the credit they deserve? What about the time? what is the track record for that distance? anything like sub 1.54? leave alone sub 1.53?? If you take the blinkers off you will notice that Lazarus dug VERY deep near the line trying to fight off the winner...I reckon another 50 yards Lazarus wins!! There were some on this forum that were bagging the horse through he ID heats, he came out and done the big job on the big night, as predicted.

Is Lazarus the best horse ever?, he is a ripper but in order to get that tag he still has a power of work to do, but at the moment he is way better than anything in the Southern Hemisphere.

[Showgrounds]

Hey folks, yes Pure Steel sat 3 wide for an "entire Miracle Mile" a very slow miracle mile and the MM is over approximately 1600 metres not 2600....as Paul has pointed out, Lazarus's effort was OUTSTANDING, I know there are a few among us that have been around a while, who can remember ANY other incident either side of the ditch where a group one race over further than the mile was won by a horse sitting 3 wide the entire journey?? Bit of a harness tragic as some of you know the answer is ZERO, how about you all give the horse and his camp the credit they deserve? What about the time? what is the track record for that distance? anything like sub 1.54? leave alone sub 1.53?? If you take the blinkers off you will notice that Lazarus dug VERY deep near the line trying to fight off the winner...I reckon another 50 yards Lazarus wins!! There were some on this forum that were bagging the horse through he ID heats, he came out and done the big job on the big night, as predicted.

Is Lazarus the best horse ever?, he is a ripper but in order to get that tag he still has a power of work to do, but at the moment he is way better than anything in the Southern Hemisphere.

Enuff said.

[eliteblood]

Hey folks, yes Pure Steel sat 3 wide for an "entire Miracle Mile" a very slow miracle mile and the MM is over approximately 1600 metres not 2600....as Paul has pointed out, Lazarus's effort was OUTSTANDING, I know there are a few among us that have been around a while, who can remember ANY other incident either side of the ditch where a group one race over further than the mile was won by a horse sitting 3 wide the entire journey?? Bit of a harness tragic as some of you know the answer is ZERO, how about you all give the horse and his camp the credit they deserve? What about the time? what is the track record for that distance? anything like sub 1.54? leave alone sub 1.53?? If you take the blinkers off you will notice that Lazarus dug VERY deep near the line trying to fight off the winner...I reckon another 50 yards Lazarus wins!! There were some on this forum that were bagging the horse through he ID heats, he came out and done the big job on the big night, as predicted.

Is Lazarus the best horse ever?, he is a ripper but in order to get that tag he still has a power of work to do, but at the moment he is way better than anything in the Southern Hemisphere.

Easily the best run I can recall Dan.

[aussiebreno]

Hey folks, yes Pure Steel sat 3 wide for an "entire Miracle Mile" a very slow miracle mile and the MM is over approximately 1600 metres not 2600....as Paul has pointed out, Lazarus's effort was OUTSTANDING, I know there are a few among us that have been around a while, who can remember ANY other incident either side of the ditch where a group one race over further than the mile was won by a horse sitting 3 wide the entire journey?? Bit of a harness tragic as some of you know the answer is ZERO, how about you all give the horse and his camp the credit they deserve? What about the time? what is the track record for that distance? anything like sub 1.54? leave alone sub 1.53?? If you take the blinkers off you will notice that Lazarus dug VERY deep near the line trying to fight off the winner...I reckon another 50 yards Lazarus wins!! There were some on this forum that were bagging the horse through he ID heats, he came out and done the big job on the big night, as predicted.

Is Lazarus the best horse ever?, he is a ripper but in order to get that tag he still has a power of work to do, but at the moment he is way better than anything in the Southern Hemisphere.

Good post Dan. Was waiting for an 'old timer' to come in and say something like this.

[aussiebreno]

Agreed Colin, Pure Steel, pure guts and determination, I will never forget his 1980 AG Hunter Cup win when he sat on the outside of Paleface Adios all the way and went on to win with the great sit/sprinter Koala

King unable to run him down. The call of that race was remarkable. Pure Steel, my all time favourite until I'm Themightyquinn came along.:)

Footnote. They actually measured the stride of Pure Steel in full flight....... 7.9 metres or 26 feet. incredible.
He is my all time favourite too and a look through my post history will comfirm my love for him. However is quickest time at Gloucester Park was 1.53.5 and that was over 1700. Give Lazarus some credit going 1.52.6 over 2500.

[aussiebreno]

pure steel sat 3 wide for an entire miracle mile, i know cause i was there!!.the time was not flash but the courage was immeasurable,big class difference between a miracle mile and a fremantle cup.oh yes and pure steel did win that miracle mile,so let's not get carried away with that great run.

I'm not sure how Michael Frost, Hermosa Star and Dimante Hanover stack up as stars of the game, and Markovina clipped Pure Steels wheel so effectively out of the race. Freo Cup of Chicago Bull, Soho Tribecca and Ultimate Machete doesn't stack up too bad.

That the first qtr was the quickest in that Miracle Mile of 28.2 when Pure Steel dropped back suited him, whereas Lazarus was working hard the whole race. Pure Steel was also the 3rd slowest Miracle Mile and this race was in quick time. Not knocking Pure Steel but I think its easy to look back at history with rose coloured glasses sometimes.

[Messenger]

Good post Dan. Was waiting for an 'old timer' to come in and say something like this.

LOL I am changing my name to Dan and taking a couple of years off my age

[aussiebreno]

LOL I am changing my name to Dan and taking a couple of years off my age
I liked your posts re greatest run of all time & arguing the points re 3 wide the trip.
Old timer in this instance not necessary old in age, but been a part of something a long time. Danno has lived and breathed harness racing for a long time.

[Messenger]

I wasn't really being serious Breno - I know Dan's cred - if anybody didn't they need only look at the response to his post

[Mighty Atom]

He is my all time favourite too and a look through my post history will comfirm my love for him. However is quickest time at Gloucester Park was 1.53.5 and that was over 1700. Give Lazarus some credit going 1.52.6 over 2500.

Lazarus time for the 2500 at GP was unbelievable but we all know that times can belie a horse's true ability Lazarus an exception. Take Queensland harness racing they zip around their favourite distance 1660 metres in quick times but that's where it ends.
ITMQ's pedestrian 1:53.5 at GP translated to a 1:50.4 at Albion Park in 2014 Sunshine Sprint a time that will take some beating and only a horse the calibre of Lazarus could do it.

[Mighty Atom]

I'm not sure how Michael Frost, Hermosa Star and Dimante Hanover stack up as stars of the game, and Markovina clipped Pure Steels wheel so effectively out of the race. Freo Cup of Chicago Bull, Soho Tribecca and Ultimate Machete doesn't stack up too bad.

That the first qtr was the quickest in that Miracle Mile of 28.2 when Pure Steel dropped back suited him, whereas Lazarus was working hard the whole race. Pure Steel was also the 3rd slowest Miracle Mile and this race was in quick time. Not knocking Pure Steel but I think its easy to look back at history with rose coloured glasses sometimes.
Hey breno, you left out the winner My Hard Copy.
Agree with you breno, three champs in that race Pure Steel, Paleface Adios and Markovina the other three good horses not stars. Another example of times not justifying a horse's ability.

[arlington]

Hey folks, yes Pure Steel sat 3 wide for an "entire Miracle Mile" a very slow miracle mile and the MM is over approximately 1600 metres not 2600....as Paul has pointed out, Lazarus's effort was OUTSTANDING, I know there are a few among us that have been around a while, who can remember ANY other incident either side of the ditch where a group one race over further than the mile was won by a horse sitting 3 wide the entire journey?? Bit of a harness tragic as some of you know the answer is ZERO, how about you all give the horse and his camp the credit they deserve? What about the time? what is the track record for that distance? anything like sub 1.54? leave alone sub 1.53?? If you take the blinkers off you will notice that Lazarus dug VERY deep near the line trying to fight off the winner...I reckon another 50 yards Lazarus wins!! There were some on this forum that were bagging the horse through he ID heats, he came out and done the big job on the big night, as predicted.

Is Lazarus the best horse ever?, he is a ripper but in order to get that tag he still has a power of work to do, but at the moment he is way better than anything in the Southern Hemisphere.

Does Lombo Rapida's 2000 Chariots win qualify?

[Danno]

Does Lombo Rapida's 2000 Chariots win qualify?

My memory of that race was she was 3 wide for a long time Wayne, not so sure the journey, but if you have got me, I'd love to see the run if it can be dug up.
cheers, Dan

[arlington]

My memory of that race was she was 3 wide for a long time Wayne, not so sure the journey, but if you have got me, I'd love to see the run if it can be dug up.
cheers, Dan

Have been searching for a video of the race for a few years Dan. I've looked through Kyle's (Amlin) terrific youtube stash. Any leads Kyle?

Albeit not a grand circuit race but it was a "a horse just can't do that" moment for me, hence the memory. She did draw wide, as you'd know. I did wonder if her remaining wide throughout (my recollection) was tactical due to the rain affected state of the track, but still. Pretty sure John Justice on Shakamaker was just as "amazed".

Was an opportunity to jog your, or anyone else's memory of the race Dan. Hoping we might dredge up a video of the race. Cheers, Wayne.

[bgardiner2000]

I disagree... I think the drive was masterful. Any driving tactic that ends with Lazarus landing the breeze in front of you means you have effectively conceded the race. Lazarus raced three wide the trip and still went past CB in the straight. How on earth do you think taking a sit on him improves Jnr's chances? Lazarus' run was one of the best runs I've seen. Sinbad Bay in the Golden Nugget in 1988 was the best single run I've seen ay GP IMO... but not much between them.

He was beaten 3 times in but on each occasion Purdon looked like he was keeping his eye on the prize and not trying to protect some streak. That's why he's the master.

I'm a huge fan of My Hard Copy... one of the reasons the run of Lazarus was so full of merit was due to the fact that MHC, with the perfect trail into the race and loving the pattern was only able to get him by a head. Look at the quality of some of the others in the race that had also had easy runs that failed to make any sought of ground. He's got GOAT written all over him this horse. BTW... MHC is a dual winner of the pacing cup, not the Freo Cup.