Where are the 2yo's ?

[gutwagon]

It's almost the end of January and Vic has just had its first 2yo race. Just 6 runners. Normally they would have started in early December and then been 2 or 3 a week, so we would have normally had 10 to 15 2yo races by now.
This will follow through to next seasons 3yo's, this is the result of the reduction in mares being bred and the lack of encouragement to breed horses.
I don't think the people running the show seem to realize the severity of this problem. Within the next few years fields bigger than 6 runners will be rare and they will be lucky to be able to fill 6 races per meeting .
I think they need to start rewarding people for breeding their mares before it's too late. They need to do something to get every broodmare owner to breed this season.
I've been in the sport for over 30 years and this is by far the worst start to the 2yo season I have seen.

[KTQ]

I feel it is still very early. Our aus ones are only just starting to trial (possibly 1 this weekend). Nz one raced a couple weeks back but only because he had to qualify for the Young Guns final. It's not good on them to be pushed early I dont think. Theres no rush

[gutwagon]

Katie, some people may be saving their horses for later in the season but that doesn't explain the lack of 2yo's. Peter Manning would normally have 10 to 15 ready to race by now. You just have to look at the trail results to see that there are just none around. I always like to check how the new season stallions are going at the early trials and races but this season there is nothing.

[KTQ]

Oh we've had a fair few 2 year old trials over here in WA already.
Is to worthwhile racing so early? Are there many races for them to be in? That's probably more the question.

Both Monday and Tuesday we have a 2yo race. Small fields yes you're right but also the first big 2yo races arent until late feb/March but a couple Pet Rocks and Renaissance Man are in.

I'm still positive for the industry. Saw a tweet today re: QLD yearling sale and how results were positive

[KTQ]

Also 4 trials at pinjarra with 4 in each trial on Sunday and 16 trialed on Wed at Bunbury (3trials). Still waiting for byford.. not sure if trials were run

[Messenger]

Going off at a bit of a tangent here (thinking of next years 2yo's) but a friend noticed the positive spin on the Brisbane APG sale

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36212

You would expect some improvement due to supply and demand when there are 42% fewer lots on offer with only 41 going through the ring (compared to 71 last year)

[astoevelaar]

Going off at a bit of a tangent here (thinking of next years 2yo's) but a friend noticed the positive spin on the Brisbane APG sale

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=36212

You would expect some improvement due to supply and demand when there are 42% fewer lots on offer with only 41 going through the ring (compared to 71 last year)

I watched the QLD Sales via the live streaming. I agree that supply and demand is no doubt a factor but of the 41 foals that went around they were some of the best looking foals going around. Lot 28 a Big Jim was an absolute cracker. Would not surprise me in the slightest if quiet a number feature in the APG Finals over the next couple of years.

[Amlin]

Seven noms for the fillies event at Ballarat this Friday night

[KTQ]

2 x trials with 6 in each at Menangle tomorrow: Shoobees Place and A Rock N Roll Dance both have babies in.
(also for personal note, a foal out of a half sister to the dam of our boy Jack Mac :o )

and in the 2yo trial at young, there's a horse out of a sire called Windradyne.. His two winners to date (from 33 foals and 8 starters) have won $60k

[Messenger]

2 x trials with 6 in each at Menangle tomorrow: Shoobees Place and A Rock N Roll Dance both have babies in.
(also for personal note, a foal out of a half sister to the dam of our boy Jack Mac :o )

and in the 2yo trial at young, there's a horse out of a sire called Windradyne.. His two winners to date (from 33 foals and 8 starters) have won $60k

Windradyne (a Classic Garry son) who is now 20 is a very interesting one Katie because HRA are not crediting him with having any progeny since 2011/12 and HarnessWeb don't have a service summary for him post 2010/11

Ah Ha you didn't say it is a 2yo+ (not that the race description does either)

Barkway Dulcie = Windradyne x Karamea Soky

She is an 8yo making her debut

It might seem a bit late but she is the only named foal of Karamea Soky - good luck to the Hoys, they deserve it
Karamea Soky's 2 other foals who are yet to make it to the races - but we won't give up on them yet as they are only a 6yo and a 4yo are both out of Kadoopy
Haven't heard of Kadoopy (Albert Albert) either?
He has only had 1 make it to the track and YES, he (Barkway Arnold) was out of another Hoy mare

Fields for Young trials:

http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?mc=YU300118T#2

[KTQ]

Windradyne (a Classic Garry son) who is now 20 is a very interesting one Katie because HRA are not crediting him with having any progeny since 2011/12 and HarnessWeb don't have a service summary for him post 2010/11

Ah Ha you didn't say it is a 2yo+ (not that the race description does either)

Barkway Dulcie = Windradyne x Karamea Soky

She is an 8yo making her debut

It might seem a bit late but she is the only named foal of Karamea Soky - good luck to the Hoys, they deserve it
Karamea Soky's 2 other foals who are yet to make it to the races - but we won't give up on them yet as they are only a 6yo and a 4yo are both out of Kadoopy
Haven't heard of Kadoopy (Albert Albert) either?
He has only had 1 make it to the track and YES, he (Barkway Arnold) was out of another Hoy mare

Fields for Young trials:

http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?mc=YU300118T#2

Oh hahaha I didn't even think to check the age ;)

I wish I knew what ones that stallion had race

[alphastud]

Roll With Joe 2yo's
Major Roll won the 2yo Leeton Breeders Plate final by 18m in near record time
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=LE260118
Muscle Factory won a trial at Menangle by 26m.
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ME300118T

[Messenger]

Oh hahaha I didn't even think to check the age ;)

I wish I knew what ones that stallion had race

Can't you access HRA search like us Katie?

I'll try attaching a snip - may not be clear Too blurry, so I will just try their names and surely HRA lets you use their Search to do the rest (You Canadians :D)

[KTQ]

Can't you access HRA search like us Katie?

I'll try attaching a snip - may not be clear Too blurry, so I will just try their names and surely HRA lets you use their Search to do the rest (You Canadians :D)

Haha shush on the Canadian bashing :o . I can click on sire progeny but need to register to get any details . Don't tell me there's another section I've been missing all these years...

[Messenger]

Haha shush on the Canadian bashing :o . I can click on sire progeny but need to register to get any details . Don't tell me there's another section I've been missing all these years...

Sure is !!!

That Sire's progeny where you found out that
"Windradyne... His two winners to date (from 33 foals and 8 starters) have won $60k"

Is only the beginning - you would have seen the last column
If you are registered you get all that info ie the names of: all winners, seasons winners, seasons starters, all starters etc etc Sorted however you want them

REGISTER

[Messenger]

Roll With Joe 2yo's
Major Roll won the 2yo Leeton Breeders Plate final by 18m in near record time
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=LE260118
Muscle Factory won a trial at Menangle by 26m.
http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ME300118T

If you have a look at Major Roll's dam line you have to go back to the 50's (his 5th dam) to find a dam that even raced!
John Peck had to add a few previous generations that now only get a gig in ClassicFamilies due to Major Roll's win in this Gp3

http://classicfamilies.net/CF/Tails.aspx?HorseID=10196186

[Beltane]

Barkway Dulcie, the 8 year old (mentioned previously sired by Windradyne) had it's first trial at Young and finished 4th by a margin of 7 metres.

[Adaptor]

If you have a look at Major Roll's dam line you have to go back to the 50's (his 5th dam) to find a dam that even raced!
John Peck had to add a few previous generations that now only get a gig in ClassicFamilies due to Major Roll's win in this Gp3

http://classicfamilies.net/CF/Tails.aspx?HorseID=10196186


For Major Roll...

Not really:.
Look at Tail Light[/B]
1963 Vic Victoria Oaks -3f MSg 1
1963 Vic Silver Vase - 3 Trng F
1963 NSW Oaks (heat) HaP S
1963 Vic Oaks (heat) Ben S
1966 Vic Shepparton Gold Cup

Columbia Wealth won 7

[Messenger]

For Major Roll...

Not really:.
Look at Tail Light[/B]
1963 Vic Victoria Oaks -3f MSg 1
1963 Vic Silver Vase - 3 Trng F
1963 NSW Oaks (heat) HaP S
1963 Vic Oaks (heat) Ben S
1966 Vic Shepparton Gold Cup

Columbia Wealth won 7


Tail Light (foaled 1959) is his 5th dam, Noel

but I can now see that his 4th dam must have raced too as she won $295 and she did foal that winner
and on further investigation a the 3rd dam produced a couple in the breeding barn.
One that caught my eye, Sankemhar, had a short 2yo career before winning 6 out of 8 as a 3yo and then that was the finish of his career

So although there was not any success on the track in Major Roll's direct damline after his 5th dam there was enough happening in the barn to keep giving the line of an Oaks winner a chance to produce another

[Messenger]

I don't know if there are less 2yo's around but if the field at Ballarat tonight is any indication - they are well bred

The only one not out of a winning (multi at that) dam is probably the one you would most want to own - being a half sis to Soho Tribeca and his three other $100k+ siblings

The other seven's dams won a total of 72 races between them!

http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?mc=BA020218&rc=BAC02021808

Michael Stanley trains 3 of them - all owned by Robert Watson thus the Soho's

[alphastud]

Tail Light (foaled 1959) is his 5th dam, Noel

but I can now see that his 4th dam must have raced too as she won $295 and she did foal that winner
and on further investigation a the 3rd dam produced a couple in the breeding barn.
One that caught my eye, Sankemhar, had a short 2yo career before winning 6 out of 8 as a 3yo and then that was the finish of his career

So although there was not any success on the track in Major Roll's direct damline after his 5th dam there was enough happening in the barn to keep giving the line of an Oaks winner a chance to produce another

What do you think would have been Major Roll's top bid if he were in the 2017 APG yearling sale?

[aussiebreno]

What do you think would have been Major Roll's top bid if he were in the 2017 APG yearling sale?
Wouldn't have got much more than the service fee (if that) if he went through the yearling sales.

[Messenger]

What do you think would have been Major Roll's top bid if he were in the 2017 APG yearling sale?

I guess he would have gone through the Sydney sale as the breeders are NSW
There were plenty of Art Major's to pick from - 26 but they did well of course especially the colts
It would come down to conformation but he could have gone for something around what
Esther Jane's colt went for = $15,000

All the higher priced lots had good winning dams/recent barn success in the pedigree

There were 40 Art Major's in the Melb sale
The cheapest colt went for $25,000
but he was out of a winning dam who was the dam of Charlie McSheen (maybe this colt had something wrong with him)

So overall I would think $15-25k Richard. With a service fee of around $10k you would want more

[Adaptor]

That's about right.

I don't think it wouldn't have made it to APG sale.

Notice SMART SET (Imp) in the pedigree ( Smart Light). He was at stud with or after Royal Dollar and was a disaster!
HRA site for his results looks incorrect to me, but his progeny were nice looking chestnout horses, but were not competitive. Messed up a lot of pedigrees...

[alphastud]

Many would agree Brendan from a catalogue perspective.

Thanks Kevin and Noel. However, Major Roll is by RWJ and that service fee may have been between 4 and 5k from memory.

[Showgrounds]

That's about right.

I don't think it wouldn't have made it to APG sale.

Notice SMART SET (Imp) in the pedigree ( Smart Light). He was at stud with or after Royal Dollar and was a disaster!
HRA site for his results looks incorrect to me, but his progeny were nice looking chestnout horses, but were not competitive. Messed up a lot of pedigrees...

I learnt in my teens (many decades ago!) to avoid any horse with Smart Set in its bloodlines. The few decent horses he left were mainly out of blue-blood mares and bred by Bob Parker. He was an early USA import by Ensign Hanover (I think I am correct) as was H.D. Hanover (another disaster). Polluted many good Aussie families into oblivion.

[Messenger]

Many would agree Brendan from a catalogue perspective.

Thanks Kevin and Noel. However, Major Roll is by RWJ and that service fee may have been between 4 and 5k from memory.

LOL Richard (sorry for leading you astray Noel)

I spent yonks looking at the pedigrees - except for the one that counts!

Trying again - being a RWJ, disregarding conformation, he was unlikely to fetch as much as Trudee's colt that only got $10k

[arlington]

Hypotheticals are great for debate but would the owner breeders be caring about the sale hypothetical? I say well done them. It's a bit of an insult to price the horse, disregards the breeder's persistence and likelihood one or two of the progeny/breed could have shown promise at home but never made it to the track.
APG is nearly all encompassing as it is now, let's not suggest any successful home bred should have gone through the ring.

Off on a tangent but we really should be considering a non sales based futurity series. Non sales bred are still the majority? We're democratic aren't we? It's getting that way, from the marketing, if you don't buy an APG horse you may as well not be in the game.
Non sales futurity, yes, that means sales horses aren't eligible. Doesn't mean a going horse like Major Roll couldn't change hands. How would it hurt the industry if there was more incentive for non commercial breeders? Shouldn't be forgotten that selling at the yearling sales does off load your risk early.

In Vic, the Home Grown Series could be used. Am still in a quandary as to the reason why the maximum stake earned for eligibility was raised from 6k to 10k. It's programming on the calendar is in early May. Originally that was purely due to the Government funding having to be used in that financial year ending June. I should also point out it was introduced for youngsters unlikely to reach the lofty heights of the Sires Super Series or Breeders Crown so running it in May is very questionable. Interesting that a more realistic slot, July, has now been taken by APG, hmmm. So you have these quality APG youngsters eligible for everything, including the Home Grown, with their own round of $50,000 championship (consolation?) races in July, which of course non sales horses aren't eligible for.

I'm not bashing APG but when you think about the ownership of APG you wonder if it takes over administrator's thoughts and not hard to wonder who influences the administrators.
No doubt the Home Grown having Group status would prickle commercial breeders if their lots weren't eligible (I suspect this has already influenced) but how about this, don't apply for it to have Group status. Or run two $25,000 series instead of $50,000. Does black type matter that much to non commercial breeders? I think, with what little voice they have, they're yelling "show me the money".

Good luck to the non APG horses in the Hunger Cup tonight and good luck to all the vendors and buyers on Sunday and good luck to all the breeders who intend to race the foals they'll be looking at tomorrow morning and dreaming.


A bit about the writer, have bought and bred to race.

[alphastud]

Hypotheticals are great for debate but would the owner breeders be caring about the sale hypothetical? I say well done them. It's a bit of an insult to price the horse, disregards the breeder's persistence and likelihood one or two of the progeny/breed could have shown promise at home but never made it to the track.
APG is nearly all encompassing as it is now, let's not suggest any successful home bred should have gone through the ring.

Off on a tangent but we really should be considering a non sales based futurity series. Non sales bred are still the majority? We're democratic aren't we? It's getting that way, from the marketing, if you don't buy an APG horse you may as well not be in the game.
Non sales futurity, yes, that means sales horses aren't eligible. Doesn't mean a going horse like Major Roll couldn't change hands. How would it hurt the industry if there was more incentive for non commercial breeders? Shouldn't be forgotten that selling at the yearling sales does off load your risk early.

In Vic, the Home Grown Series could be used. Am still in a quandary as to the reason why the maximum stake earned for eligibility was raised from 6k to 10k. It's programming on the calendar is in early May. Originally that was purely due to the Government funding having to be used in that financial year ending June. I should also point out it was introduced for youngsters unlikely to reach the lofty heights of the Sires Super Series or Breeders Crown so running it in May is very questionable. Interesting that a more realistic slot, July, has now been taken by APG, hmmm. So you have these quality APG youngsters eligible for everything, including the Home Grown, with their own round of $50,000 championship (consolation?) races in July, which of course non sales horses aren't eligible for.

I'm not bashing APG but when you think about the ownership of APG you wonder if it takes over administrator's thoughts and not hard to wonder who influences the administrators.
No doubt the Home Grown having Group status would prickle commercial breeders if their lots weren't eligible (I suspect this has already influenced) but how about this, don't apply for it to have Group status. Or run two $25,000 series instead of $50,000. Does black type matter that much to non commercial breeders? I think, with what little voice they have, they're yelling "show me the money".

Good luck to the non APG horses in the Hunger Cup tonight and good luck to all the vendors and buyers on Sunday and good luck to all the breeders who intend to race the foals they'll be looking at tomorrow morning and dreaming.

A bit about the writer, have bought and bred to race.

Thanks Kevin and Wayne.
Wayne - my question was mainly to understand the market sentiment for RWJ at the APG sales and you've somehow interpreted that into something untoward. Sorry if you or the owner / breeders were offended as that wasn't the intent of the question.
Congratulations to the connections of Major Roll and I hope that he wins many more when not racing us.

The other reasons for the question was a few fold. I wanted to highlight that good horses can come from anywhere and Major Roll is such an example. See also Ultimate Art who was purchased for around $5k at the Bathurst sale and has won over $500k.
I doubt that many could recommended breeding Courlivia however it's great that she was bred and has produced a potential star in Major Roll. I want to know understand why this breeding worked given the lack (apparent) of quality in the dam line.

Re - Non-sales based futurities : Aren't the NSW Breeders Challenge, Vicbred, Bathurst Gold Crown etc. non-sales based futurities? And I think that you can make your yearling APG eligible without running them through the sale. What if we had an owner / breeder futurity?

There are some concerning downward trends in HR which includes breeding. The current incentives / futurities haven't solved the problem. Currently, we have a small crop of young racehorses taking the lion's share of the prizemoney.
What % of racing 2YO's won over $10k in the 2017 season? At the end of this season, what % of 3YO's will have won $15k LTS?
Handicappers could help by offering more races with 0 LTW however they have a conundrum due to the racehorse population. They have to combine fillies / colts and horses that have won races. Fillies get preferential draw and so your colt / gelding is often disadvantaged.

[Messenger]

Thanks Kevin and Wayne.
Wayne - my question was mainly to understand the market sentiment for RWJ at the APG sales and you've somehow interpreted that into something untoward. Sorry if you or the owner / breeders were offended as that wasn't the intent of the question.
Congratulations to the connections of Major Roll and I hope that he wins many more when not racing us.

The other reasons for the question was a few fold. I wanted to highlight that good horses can come from anywhere and Major Roll is such an example. See also Ultimate Art who was purchased for around $5k at the Bathurst sale and has won over $500k.
I doubt that many could recommended breeding Courlivia however it's great that she was bred and has produced a potential star in Major Roll. I want to know understand why this breeding worked given the lack (apparent) of quality in the dam line.

Re - Non-sales based futurities : Aren't the NSW Breeders Challenge, Vicbred, Bathurst Gold Crown etc. non-sales based futurities? And I think that you can make your yearling APG eligible without running them through the sale. What if we had an owner / breeder futurity?

There are some concerning downward trends in HR which includes breeding. The current incentives / futurities haven't solved the problem. Currently, we have a small crop of young racehorses taking the lion's share of the prizemoney.
What % of racing 2YO's won over $10k in the 2017 season? At the end of this season, what % of 3YO's will have won $15k LTS?
Handicappers could help by offering more races with 0 LTW however they have a conundrum due to the racehorse population. They have to combine fillies / colts and horses that have won races. Fillies get preferential draw and so your colt / gelding is often disadvantaged.

If only it was easy to find stats like that in Australia Richard - our database is frankly pathetic

I can give you NZ however, for 2017

55 NZ 2yo's won $10k+

around 130 NZ 3yo's won $15k+ ( I say around as I couldn't be bothered counting but did count it was 36 per page)

[gutwagon]

It amazes me how people will pay so much for a yearling at the APG sales. If you were to offer the same horse for sale on the trading ring you would be lucky to get a third of the money.
Since the APG sales started up foals being bred numbers have dropped every year, possibly a coincidence but I believe the fact that the sale only accepts mainly progeny of the top stallions many breeders are discouraged by the huge service fees and just give up. In my opinion race series for sales graduates only are not helping the breeding industry overall . Sure the top breeders may benefit but the majority loose out.
With the over inflated prices at these sales and sustaining fees, around 80% of buyers will not get their money back and possibly be lost to the industry.

[arlington]

Thanks Kevin and Wayne.
Wayne - my question was mainly to understand the market sentiment for RWJ at the APG sales and you've somehow interpreted that into something untoward. Sorry if you or the owner / breeders were offended as that wasn't the intent of the question.
Congratulations to the connections of Major Roll and I hope that he wins many more when not racing us.

The other reasons for the question was a few fold. I wanted to highlight that good horses can come from anywhere and Major Roll is such an example. See also Ultimate Art who was purchased for around $5k at the Bathurst sale and has won over $500k.
I doubt that many could recommended breeding Courlivia however it's great that she was bred and has produced a potential star in Major Roll. I want to know understand why this breeding worked given the lack (apparent) of quality in the dam line.

Re - Non-sales based futurities : Aren't the NSW Breeders Challenge, Vicbred, Bathurst Gold Crown etc. non-sales based futurities? And I think that you can make your yearling APG eligible without running them through the sale. What if we had an owner / breeder futurity?

There are some concerning downward trends in HR which includes breeding. The current incentives / futurities haven't solved the problem. Currently, we have a small crop of young racehorses taking the lion's share of the prizemoney.
What % of racing 2YO's won over $10k in the 2017 season? At the end of this season, what % of 3YO's will have won $15k LTS?
Handicappers could help by offering more races with 0 LTW however they have a conundrum due to the racehorse population. They have to combine fillies / colts and horses that have won races. Fillies get preferential draw and so your colt / gelding is often disadvantaged.

Thanks for dotting my i's and crossing my t's Richard. I did write Non sales futurity, yes, that means sales horses aren't eligible. And yes you can enter the APG series if you pay fees of over $6000 if you want to compete against the quality of horses my suggestion is trying to avoid so I don't know where you're going with that.

When you pose What if we had an owner / breeder futurity? you are on the same page as me, that is, sale's horses would not be eligible?

Part of my point was I believe the APG concept can be more than a bit counterproductive (it seems Rick is also suggesting that) in increasing breeding, hence 2yo, numbers.

The owner/breeder race/series I think we're both getting at Richard doesn't have to be a futurity. I used the Vic Home Grown Series as an example, which really isn't a futurity, other than paying your once yearly Vicbred fee. As Rick has alluded to a lot of people are getting sick or wary of futurity payments. Obviously I'm not talking of a race series with prize money levels comparable with APG, Sires/Breeders Challenge or Breeders Crown. In Vic's case HRV could see fit to incentivise smaller breeder/owners to breed without the disincentive of futurity payments by using the Home Grown Series. Afterall, they aren't scared to change it's conditions.
It has the hallmarks of what I've proposed, "Home Grown", prize money won conditions, introduced for horses unlikely to win/have won the APG, Vic Sires or even Breeders Crown, but it's timing lends itself to APG sales graduates heading to the APG races and it's also run before the Sires Series and Breeders Crown. It's objective is defeated before it's run! Huge question marks.

I'm declaring I have no ulterior motives nor current pecuniary interest in my questioning of the Vic Home grown Series but I hope others and HRV could see why I question it in the way I have. edit: Might it be a concern to HRV I, and other potential or dormant breeders, don't have a pecuniary interest?

If Rick's reading this, do you know the reason why the eligibility prize money earned was raised form $6000 to $10,000 for the Vic Home Grown series?

I just remembered, it may have been on the podcast Shannon Nixon used to produce with Brett Coffey. Shannon being Harness Breeders Vic vice president, Brett secretary of same body and also with Alabar. There was some discussion involving the dominance of certain sires and how that might be setting the industry back. Shannon suggested, perhaps relaying other's thoughts, that a race/series might be established for progeny of sires with service fee under a certain level. Considering the background of both these guys it was heartening to hear that aired. It didn't get a big run but it would seem people similar to, and including, yourself Richard aren't completely against the type of thing we're looking at here. But heartening and fruition are worlds apart.

I couldn't agree with a concept that rues out certain sires as everyone knows not all mating's result in a champ. People who spend that sort of money on a stallion still should have a chance to recover costs. But the boys might have also been looking at redistributing the patronage of stallions, hence the health of the breeding industry.

I think they used to have a segment, 'bricks or bouquets', something like that. Bouquets to them for having a look.

[KTQ]

Renaissance Man one won a trial yesterday. Also ran, a Panpacificflight

[Messenger]

The $20k Premiere Stakes at Melton tonight only has 7 runners but features 6 different sires of interest

http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?mc=MX090218&rc=MXM09021809

[Messenger]

The $20k Premiere Stakes at Melton tonight only has 7 runners but features 6 different sires of interest

http://www.harness.org.au/form.cfm?mc=MX090218&rc=MXM09021809

Drawn the pole and lead, Carribean's boy turns the tables on the odds on pop and a Manning 2yo pays $52 !

[Messenger]

Last night we had a 2yo at only its 2nd start sent out $1.30 fav and beaten
Tonight we had a 2yo at only its 2nd start sent out $1.20 fav and beaten

[alphastud]

Rollin With Holly and Muscle Factory both win first up at Newc and Menangle.

[gutwagon]

Last night we had a 2yo at only its 2nd start sent out $1.30 fav and beaten
Tonight we had a 2yo at only its 2nd start sent out $1.20 fav and beaten
I think the small fields contributed to the very short prices Kevin, but good value if you picked the winner.

[Messenger]

Michael Stanley had 5 fillies in the 3 APG heats for the 2yo's at Melton tonight (5 of the 20 contestants is a healthy 25%)
2 of them started favourite and were both very green but while Single Tree Road still managed to win
Soho Nolita - Soho Tribeca's half sis, was just too wayward
Single Tree Road was most impressive as he did plenty wrong to the extent that his stablemate coming around to give him cover was of little assistance (call me suspicious but I reckon he knew he was coming too) but he knuckled down in the straight

First and second in the first of the heats (R9) were very impressive too

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX070418&fromstate=vic#MXM07041807

[Richard prior]

They are green alright, Massive run by Fiscal Fantasy

[arlington]

Is there any interest, value, in a thread posting impressive 2yo winners sired by moderately priced stallions?

Here's a couple from Vic recently.

Cobram 19 April 2018, LOCHINVAR ART 1.56.9 Sire Modern Art http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=CO190418#COC19041808

Horsham 22 April 2018, IM SIR BLAKE 1.55.9 Sire ALTA CHRISTIANO http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=HS220418#HSC22041807

[alphastud]

Hi Wayne, what's your cut-off price?

NSW
ROLLIN WITH HOLLY Sire ROLL WITH JOE 1:55.9 http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=PC170418#PCC17041810
HURRICANE ROY Sire SPORTSWRITER 1:54.5 http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=PC170418#PCC17041810

[arlington]

G'day Richard,


Good question, what do others think? I haven't looked up Sportswriter or RWJ, but maybe modestly priced might have been better? Up to $5000?

[Richard prior]

Alta Christiano would be worth a bit of consideration after seeing that winner he left Wayne and I’m sure he’d be reasonably priced, He had a heap of ability that we never really seen and is from a terrific family, There really seems to be some nicely priced options outside the big boys

[gutwagon]

With Christian Cullen being such a successful stallion you would expect some of his sons to be decent sires. Maybe Alto Christiano could be the one ! None of the others have really stood out yet. It will be good for the industry if the In The Pocket/Direct Scooter line can continue on with a few options.

[Richard prior]

Would be very timely Rick, Mach Three and SBSW are no longer with us and that in itself was a massive double blow to breeders, The Direct Scooter blood is real speed stuff and hopefully we can get 1 or 2 of these sons of CC and SBSW to stand up very quickly, It would be a godsend for breeders

[Messenger]

All the 2yo's are at Bendigo tonight with 7 heats of the Vicbred and a 2yo trot

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN190618&fromstate=vic

[Messenger]

Emma Stewart won 3 of the Vicbred Super Series heats for the 2yo fillies at Bendigo tonight AND it should have been All 4 as 2nd placed Tiger Storm locked wheels and dragged the winner over the line (protest not upheld)

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN190618&fromstate=vic

She has also won a colts heat, come 2nd in another and will be winning the 3rd and last heat
So overall she will have won 5 of the 7 heats, run 2nd in the other 2 (plus a Quinella or two)