Lazarus to the USA

[teecee]

https://www.hrnz.co.nz/news-and-events/latest-news/6892-lazarus-sold

[Danno]

Bloody shame in my humble opinion, pretty sure he was the sort of horse to help rejuvenate the profile of harness racing in Anzac world, now he is just a commercial asset.

[Greg Hando]

Agree with you Dan a great loss to the FFA ranks

[Richard prior]

A massive blow to the local industry, The game certainly needs a superstar and imho opinion, Lazarus was all that but I’m sure we will see him back here in the future as a shuttle stallion

[Showgrounds]

The biggest issue facing Lazarus, if her were to remain and stand in NZ, is the saturation of Bettors Delight blood. Or worse, Bettors Delight over Christian Cullen or In The Pocket mares. The horse population just isn't big enough for him whereas he can introduce new blood into the North American breed through Christian Cullen and his female family.

It would seem NZ breeders will be encouraged to breed to Vincent in order to introduce some fresh blood into all those Bettors Delight females.

That aside, I will really miss Laz, he was the most courageous race horse we've seen in a long, long time. No doubt Mark Purdon will spend a few nights staring at the ceiling instead of sleeping. To have had the likes of Lazarus and Vincent winning everything and then, a few months later, they're both gone magnifies the the ups and downs of harness racing.

[Grinder]

The biggest issue facing Lazarus, if her were to remain and stand in NZ, is the saturation of Bettors Delight blood. Or worse, Bettors Delight over Christian Cullen or In The Pocket mares. The horse population just isn't big enough for him whereas he can introduce new blood into the North American breed through Christian Cullen and his female family.

It would seem NZ breeders will be encouraged to breed to Vincent in order to introduce some fresh blood into all those Bettors Delight females.

That aside, I will really miss Laz, he was the most courageous race horse we've seen in a long, long time. No doubt Mark Purdon will spend a few nights staring at the ceiling instead of sleeping. To have had the likes of Lazarus and Vincent winning everything and then, a few months later, they're both gone magnifies the the ups and downs of harness racing.

Very well stated, Trevor. He presents the best opportunity for Southern Hemisphere sires there has ever been in North America.
His other “problem” as I see it, is performing well enough over one mile races in the US. His brilliance has been mostly over the longer journeys. He was soundly beaten in both MM’s he appeared in and his best and most convincing wins have been over 2400m plus. The yanks will go flat tack for the whole mile and he’ll have to pace around 1:47 to be a chance of beating the locals, which may also include a couple of ex-NZ or Aussie top liners.

[gutwagon]

I have to agree with Grinder, he will need to win some very good races and break some track or world records for the Yanks to be interested in breeding to him. Unless one of the major studs in the US has purchased him I can't see the US breeders being interested in him.

[Danno]

Agree wholeheartedly about his mile form, and he won't be the first pacer from the southern hemisphere who were top notch here over a distance, but failed in the US over the mile. I sincerely hope he blows them away up there and gets all the stud opportunities he has earned and deserves, but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever his dominance is displayed over 1 1/2 to 2 miles. I really hope he does not come up short over there, but he has here over the sprint trips.

[Showgrounds]

Gee, I thought Lazarus was a great horse - I must be wrong!

There is a gulf of difference in racing in two Miracle Miles and their lead-ups and going around Menangle week after week over a mile. If he were a run-of-the-mill free for all horse, he would probably have bettered his 1:49.0 record many times over. I reckon 1:49.0 from only 4 Aus starts over the mile was a pretty good endorsement for a stallion. He went 54.9 winning over the trip at Cambridge (jogging) at his only other start over the trip.

If "speed" is everything, you could mount an argument for most Meadowlands-based claimers. Put "Laz" outside them; they'd collapse! Don't go off on a tangent by dreaming up a knock on him, he was (and I say that only because he is spelling) the best pacer in the world.

[aussiebreno]

Sucks for the sport in Australasia.

Has lacked the zip and the type of fitness required at the mile however he goes from being trained for NZ Cups and IDs to specifically for mile races so he may find that speed and type of fitness. Hope he does.

[Showgrounds]

We all live in hope of getting a horse that lacks the zip and fitness required at the mile like Lazarus so obviously does. Come to think of it, I've had dozens that lack he zip and fitness required for ANY distance.

Can't recall any of them reminding me of Lazarus, though.

[Messenger]

Gee, I thought Lazarus was a great horse - I must be wrong!

There is a gulf of difference in racing in two Miracle Miles and their lead-ups and going around Menangle week after week over a mile. If he were a run-of-the-mill free for all horse, he would probably have bettered his 1:49.0 record many times over. I reckon 1:49.0 from only 4 Aus starts over the mile was a pretty good endorsement for a stallion. He went 54.9 winning over the trip at Cambridge (jogging) at his only other start over the trip.

If "speed" is everything, you could mount an argument for most Meadowlands-based claimers. Put "Laz" outside them; they'd collapse! Don't go off on a tangent by dreaming up a knock on him, he was (and I say that only because he is spelling) the best pacer in the world.

I don't think he has any Southern knockers Trevor but you have to be fair and appreciate how hard it is going to be to get Americans to be interested in him unless he SMASHES the clock - even then they will put a knock on it not being as a juvenile

[aussiebreno]

We all live in hope of getting a horse that lacks the zip and fitness required at the mile like Lazarus so obviously does. Come to think of it, I've had dozens that lack he zip and fitness required for ANY distance.

Can't recall any of them reminding me of Lazarus, though.His zip and fitness at the mile is 9.5/10. His fitness for 2200m plus racing is 10/10. Thats a big difference at grand circuit level. He is on par with the great milers, but at 2200m + he is in the conversation for best ever.

Our Waikiki Beach ran straight past him 2 yrs ago in the Miracle Mile and Laz made no impression in this years Mile. That just doesnt happen to him in 2400m races.

[Showgrounds]

I don't think he has any Southern knockers Trevor but you have to be fair and appreciate how hard it is going to be to get Americans to be interested in him unless he SMASHES the clock - even then they will put a knock on it not being as a juvenile

Are you suggesting his new US owners have, based on the opinion of a few keyboard warriors, made a poor commercial decision? Haven't done their due diligence? Doubt it.

[teecee]

1:52.9 at 2yo
1:49 in a well beaten MM effort (when others suggest he has not the zip).
Whilst his race record may be considered superior at longer distances these were what he was trained for. It should be remembered Both MM efforts were at the end of long campaigns.
Many / most of these performances were mile rated at mid to low 1:50's. There is a thread on this forum listing "fast mile rates." These rates Lazarus does on the training track in many examples.
I for one have no doubt he can produce the zip ( as it is referred to prior ) to run the required time sought by his new owners in putting him back into work before his stud duties.

Ref Post #14 above a huge NO from me.

[Richard prior]

I agree with Teecee, Lazarus will be trained for Mile racing when he arrives in the USA and that is totally different to the stamina type training that he has been put through for the last couple of years, I learnt long ago to not knock a champion and that’s exactly what Lazarus is, The new US owners would have a grand plan for him in mind and that will include running fast miles and a stud career for sure, I have no doubt whatsoever that he could run fast miles if he is trained that way and I can’t wait to see how this transpires, It’s extremely exciting to see some of our better horses go up against the Americans and now our best is going to give it a crack, I wish Laz and the new owners lots of luck

[Messenger]

Are you suggesting his new US owners have, based on the opinion of a few keyboard warriors, made a poor commercial decision? Haven't done their due diligence? Doubt it.

It has nothing to do with any posters (keyboard warriors? You would seem to be the one in warrior mode). Of course I have no detailed info on the deal but I would say that it could never be a surprise to anybody to hear about a bad horse deal - come on Trevor this is the racing industry! The value of a deal is pretty much a matter of doing the sums and the numbers may make this deal a no brainer - based purely on the Southern hemisphere fall back option with the Northern hemi dream a bonus if it comes off. If it has to be a lot more than a bonus then we are talking about serious risk v reward stuff. Lazarus is a champion and it is hard to imagine him not smashing miles when trained exclusively for them but he also has to stay fit. The deal may be good enough for him to only need to win a few races and an American stud career seen as a pure bonus. Maybe the new owners have a big band of mares of their own but they might need to for surely you would have to concede that most Americans are pretty parochial when it comes to all things sporting

[Richard prior]

Agree with that also Kev, I think Trevor took your post the wrong way, The Americans as a whole will scrutinise Laz I have no doubt about that but the new owners come from the Ohio area and they will concentrate on that area with their own band of mares and probably see what happens from there.

[aussiebreno]

1:52.9 at 2yo
1:49 in a well beaten MM effort (when others suggest he has not the zip).
Whilst his race record may be considered superior at longer distances these were what he was trained for. It should be remembered Both MM efforts were at the end of long campaigns.
Many / most of these performances were mile rated at mid to low 1:50's. There is a thread on this forum listing "fast mile rates." These rates Lazarus does on the training track in many examples.
I for one have no doubt he can produce the zip ( as it is referred to prior ) to run the required time sought by his new owners in putting him back into work before his stud duties.

Ref Post #14 above a huge NO from me.
Yep, I think it got missed because of Trevor ranting about the zip comment but I did note he may find that bit extra zip when being trained for the mile.

[Grinder]

At risk of stirring some into defensive mode, it should also be said that after all the expense and trouble, there is the possibility that Lazarus could turn out to be a dud as a sire. Many famous and fabulous harness racing stallions have not left their mark as sires.

My wish is that Laz wins against the best pacers in the US in sub or around 1:46 and goes on to be a sought after and successful sire in both hemispheres. That said, I am under no illusion (or delusion) about how so much has to go right for him, including acclimatising to a new environment, avoiding injury and illness, and, of course dealing with (and hopefully dodging) bad luck.

I don't think anyone who has joined this conversation on this forum wants him to fail; quite the opposite. His further success will put harness racing on this side of the globe in the spotlight for all the right reasons.

[alphastud]

In addition, they have to improve off one of the best trainers in the world.

[Showgrounds]

Showgrounds speaks for himself, with tongue planted firmly in his cheek. Not ranting, just reading the valued opinions of people who all agree Lazarus is a champion. Except, not over a mile. And the Yanks ARE parochial about there sport. Insular about most things from what I've observed over my lifetime. Unlike us Aussies, who love our champions.

Perhaps not as much as we like to pick flaws in our champions, though. Any knocks on Lazarus? He failed to win a Miracle Mile. Perhaps that could be both his tries were at the end of two highly successful, if arduous, campaigns that began mid-spring. The MM is virtually the end of the big-money Grand Circuit races; given what the horse achieved both seasons before that race he was entitled to feel a little jaded.

Lazarus' sale should be celebrated as a huge landmark in Australasian harness racing. A huge landmark.

[Danno]

As previously logged on this forum I am a HUGE Lazarus fan, that said, his dominance has NOT been at the mile in open age class, his dominance has been over a journey where his massive motor and tenacity see him head and shoulders above the rest. You can all speculate about training regimes etc, but the bloody horse is not a miler, look at Paul's ( Toohard) horse Anything For Love put him against Lazarus over the mile, he is not a long way off.....put the two horses together over 2400 metres...Lazarus would humiliate him.

I really want to see Lazarus kick some serious arse in the states because I think our breed has been dismissed for too long, but based on what I have seen from him over the mile, I think he will struggle to display his true ability, as he has here over the short distance in OPEN AGE CLASS, what he did as a 2 or 3yo in NZ or Aus will not help him where he is going.

I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I just can't see him showing his best over the mile.

cheers,

Danno


A wise old man once told me.....seek the facts, and deal only in facts.


cheers,

Dan

[aussiebreno]

As previously logged on this forum I am a HUGE Lazarus fan, that said, his dominance has NOT been at the mile in open age class, his dominance has been over a journey where his massive motor and tenacity see him head and shoulders above the rest. You can all speculate about training regimes etc, but the bloody horse is not a miler, look at Paul's ( Toohard) horse Anything For Love put him against Lazarus over the mile, he is not a long way off.....put the two horses together over 2400 metres...Lazarus would humiliate him.

I really want to see Lazarus kick some serious arse in the states because I think our breed has been dismissed for too long, but based on what I have seen from him over the mile, I think he will struggle to display his true ability, as he has here over the short distance in OPEN AGE CLASS, what he did as a 2 or 3yo in NZ or Aus will not help him where he is going.

I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I just can't see him showing his best over the mile.

cheers,

Danno


A wise old man once told me.....seek the facts, and deal only in facts.


cheers,

Dan
Exactly. How does Jilliby Kung Fu and Field Marshall go against Laz at 2400m. Trevor didnt want to listen to that in the Miracle Mile thread either so after the race turned his attention to complaining about the race ! He scoffed at Ricks post in that thread but look what happened

[teecee]

Can we please get back to Lazarus and leave your views about Trev somewhere else thanks

[Dot]

I truely hope Lazarus excels in the U.S. but like Danno I have my reservations, his dominance has not been established in mile racing, and like Danno and others it will be sad not to see him continue that dominance downunder. There was a comment on the All Stars website that racing has begun to take a toll on him and an abbreviated 4 start campaign may be in his best interests.

Still with such a short window to display his talents in the states I think he does have the task ahead of him. Like Kev to gain widespread acceptance amongst breeders/trainers/yearling buyers in the states I believe he will not just have to match their achievements on the clock but better them.

As for doing their homework and the deal being commercially sound for his purchasers they are Americans involved in the TB industry and as far as I know have few if any Stb mares of their own. Like many wealthy Americans and the Thoroughbred industry this deal to me seems to be very much venture capitalism, similar to at TB yearling sales where extraordinary sums are payed for well bred colts in the hope they win a stallion making race and can be syndicated at tenfold or more the purchase price, if they don't the owners take their loss and move on to the next prospect.

All Stars website makes it clear that the new owners Taylor Made intend to further syndicate Lazarus, and no doubt are hoping to turn a quick profit on the deal, and no doubt prepared to suffer a much slower return or loss if the plan doesn't come off.

It didn't for Auckland Reactor some years ago, But for now we should all just yell as loudly as we can "Go Lazarus"

[Messenger]

Good to have you back Dot :D

[Danno]

Good to have you back Dot :D

And such a succinct post.!!

[Adaptor]

Can we please get back to Lazarus and leave your views about Trev somewhere else thanks

Sure can...from an American perspective:
From Horseman and World Fair:
Lazarus Coming To America
http://www.harnessracing.com/images/bin/9353.jpg

[Showgrounds]

Can we please get back to Lazarus and leave your views about Trev somewhere else thanks

Yeah, leave Trev alone!

[teecee]

When they claim Laz to be the richest down under standardbred of all time they can't have heard of a horse named BLACK'S A FAKE...!!!!!

[Dot]

At worst Im Themightyquinn ahead on earnings as well still, perhaps they meant to say richest entire, but then let's not let doing your homework get ahead of starting the marketing.

[Richard prior]

Also not 100% USA blood if you look closely at Christian Cullen’s dam, I nearly fell into that trap but Kev was onto it but that wouldn’t worry me at all

[Richard prior]

Americans may be wondering who Christian Cullen is when they are looking at Lazarus pedigree, I would love to see the look on their faces when and if they watched some replays of the mighty CC, It would be priceless

[Danno]

100% all American Salesmanship....don't let the truth get in the way of good bit of bullshit, the bloody horses' dam line is 100% Kiwi until you get to his 10th dam, a 1916 foal imported from guess where?

Bloody septics

[gutwagon]

Just reading that article, they hope to lower the world record for a mile with a horse that does not hold the Australian or NZ record for a mile.
I honestly hope he does well over there but he would have to win most of the races he goes in or break the world record to give him any chance of a decent stud career in the US . They are aiming at 4 top races and I can't see him winning any of them.

[Dot]

Another article on Lazarus from the U.S.

https://harnessracingupdate.com/2018/05/11/between-the-lines-hold-off-on-the-lazarus-is-the-second-coming-expectations-in-the-u-s/

[Richard prior]

Very interesting article penned by this guy, I’m not sure if he has fully done his research either so go for your life guys, One thing I do know, No way in the world would I ever mention Auckland Reactor and Lazarus in the same breath.

[Grinder]

Does anyone know if Lazarus has flown out yet? I thought he was due to go on 24 May.

[Showgrounds]

Fair to say he's gone, then. More the Bettor was on the same flight.

[Richard prior]

Arrived at Jimmy Takter’s on the 31st

[Grinder]

Safe and sound, I believe. Let's hope he can settle in quickly and resume training pretty soon.
The quarantine period for imports into the US must be pretty short....

[Dot]

Won a qualifier at the Meadowlands in 1:48.3

[Richard prior]

Oh nice, 25.3 last quarter is flying

[gutwagon]

I can see why Trump gets upset about Fake News, they are still calling Lazarus the richest of all time from the southern hemisphere. A quick Google of official Australian sites would tell them he is 3rd at present. They just report hearsay as fact without proper research.

[Grinder]

I can see why Trump gets upset about Fake News, they are still calling Lazarus the richest of all time from the southern hemisphere. A quick Google of official Australian sites would tell them he is 3rd at present. They just report hearsay as fact without proper research.

Yep, they just keep on writing it and saying it. I have Tweeted several times (as have some other Aussie and Kiwi Tweeters) correcting them and sending a link to the official list showing BAF and ITMQ way ahead of Lazarus in stake money earnings. I even tweeted "Fake News!", but it all seems to fall on deaf ears because nothing has changed (sigh). I even find myself having a smidge of sympathy for President Trump! I think both he USTA and the Canadian equivalent should publish something on heir websites correcting this repeated untruth. What next? Maybe Foiled Again hasn't won his 100th race after all.....or Greyhound was actually a dog....or Adios Butler wore a tuxedo....or Bret Hanover was a mare.... Niatross was a donkey and Somebeachsomewhere only had three legs. You get my drift.
I see you have commented on the Harnesslink article. Good on you.

[Grinder]

Forgot to say, Lazarus did look fantastic in the qualifier win. If Takter and Gingras are to be believed (and I think they at least, can be) then Laz is well on track to improve and give the big stakes races an almighty shake and possibly threaten the world mile record of 1:46, currently held by Australian legend and the fastest horse ever, Smoken Up*.

*Only kidding, just thought that perpetrating a mistruth was a current trend. Always B Miki is the world record holder for one mile.

[Dot]

Perhaps we shouldn't be throwing too many stones as there are Australians, including the chairman of HRA, claiming 100% Australian bred for Aldebaran Parks 2yo trotting colt that won a qualifier on the same card as Lazarus.

Australian born absolutely, but the product of frozen semen imported from the U.S. and a mare herself imported from the U.S. Aldebaranwalkabout and his owner Duncan McPherson have my 100% support for their endeavours in the U.S. but leave me out of the 100% Australian bred claims

[Grinder]

Perhaps we shouldn't be throwing too many stones as there are Australians, including the chairman of HRA, claiming 100% Australian bred for Aldebaran Parks 2yo trotting colt that won a qualifier on the same card as Lazarus.

Australian born absolutely, but the product of frozen semen imported from the U.S. and a mare herself imported from the U.S. Aldebaranwalkabout and his owner Duncan McPherson have my 100% support for their endeavours in the U.S. but leave me out of the 100% Australian bred claims

You are right, Dot. I therefore also cast my stones towards my fellow countrymen who choose to interpret what "Australian bred" means. No doubt they could argue the point by saying where Alderbaranwalkabout was born is enough to claim him as Australian bred.
I am not saying there is any deliberate intent to deceive on the part of the various North American commentators and scribes who state the untruth (I don't even label it a lie) about Lazarus, just that they are wrong in restating what they have been told (and clearly believe it is the truth), and that they should retract their previous incorrect information and replace it with fact.

[Messenger]

Forgot to say, Lazarus did look fantastic in the qualifier win. If Takter and Gingras are to be believed (and I think they at least, can be) then Laz is well on track to improve and give the big stakes races an almighty shake and possibly threaten the world mile record of 1:46, currently held by Australian legend and the fastest horse ever, Smoken Up*.

*Only kidding, just thought that perpetrating a mistruth was a current trend. Always B Miki is the world record holder for one mile.

I thought it is time that Smoken got recognition for this - see new thread

[Dot]

I think perhaps the U.S. Commentators press release lost a word in translation- "entire" for the other two were altered if I'm not mistaken. However if it's any consolation, probably not, just part of the confusion in switching countries with horses, they can no longer claim Lazarus as the richest entire by Bettors Delight as the official records have changed his earnings to US dollars which puts him behind All Bets Off.

Australian born for Aldebaranwalkabout - 100%, Australian bred by virtue of his place of birth - yes that's acceptable, but the 100% Australian bred will always be a long bow to draw IMO, regardless of what official conventions may apply.

[Messenger]

Read that Smoken is the World mile record holder in 1.46

see Lazarus thread Post 47

http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?12136-Lazarus-to-the-USA&p=56579#post56579


Don't worry TC - just being silly and will delete/correct soon ;)

[Grinder]

I understand SU’s record was set on a half mile track and in a 17 horse field. The official winning margin over the second placed horse, Whataloadabull, was 55 lengths.

[Messenger]

In the lead up to the race, there were reports that he was flying

[gutwagon]

I seriously wonder if we can believe any of the times that come from the US. They treat the truth so loosely. Do they officially measure their tracks ? Are their timers calibrated ? That's the impression sloppy journalism gives me anyway !

[aussiebreno]

I seriously wonder if we can believe any of the times that come from the US. They treat the truth so loosely. Do they officially measure their tracks ? Are their timers calibrated ? That's the impression sloppy journalism gives me anyway !

Are the Aust journos all that much better?

[gutwagon]

Are the Aust journos all that much better?
As far as horse racing and harness racing goes I think ours do a fairly good job with facts and figures. Of course that does not include anyone from the ABC, they do not do proper research and are bias in my opinion.

[Messenger]

We can watch him live on Sky1 at 11.50am on Saturday morning

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Watch-Lazarus-in-the-Dan-Patch-live?play

[Dot]

Yes from the visitors draw, outside of the front row!

[Messenger]

Don't forget fans - Lazarus at 11.50 AEST tomorrow on Sky 1 (if you don't have Foxtel you can still get it from their website if you have a TAB account to log on with)

http://skyracing.com.au/index.php?component=content&id=97

[Messenger]

WINS the Dan Patch on US debut.
Time nothing special by their standards (1.48.8 our timing) but he had to work from 9 in taking the lead

[Showgrounds]

1:48.8 wire to wire. He's still got it.

Importantly, the opposition never seemed a chance. It's pretty hard to line up the form and abilities of horses from different hemispheres but, on today's race, Laz is King.

[Richard prior]

Was a bit worried when I saw that the Kiss of Death had tipped Laz but he went real nice

[Messenger]

I was a bit worried that we were not going to see the race on Sky1 because of a clash with NZ gallops race at Riccarton!
But the amount of lead in time the race got was equal to an INTER
No doubt had to do with nothing having started in Australian Capital cities at that time
But if Sky stay on board Lazarus in the Northern hemi might do as much for Southern hemi harness as he did down here

[Richard prior]

Canadian Pacing Derby next

[hugdon]

$100 on the nose Rich?

[teecee]

http://m.hrnz.co.nz/news/articles/article-277672030.htm

[Messenger]

It should not be mind boggling for Lazarus to reach 1.46 ish as My Field Marshall has run 1.46.9 at Menangle
Except for the fact that we know the mile is NOT Lazarus's best distance

[Richard prior]

Time trial at the Red Mile may be worth some consideration in the future

[Richard prior]

For sure Jim

[Dot]

Do we Kev? We know Laz wasn't as effective over a mile as he was over a longer journey when he was trained by Mark Purdon for racing under Australian and NZ conditions. And the miracle mile was always at the end of a campaign (which made Soho Tribecas effort even more remarkable because he'd had as tough a season as Laz)

But trained by Takter and driven by Gingras specifically for mile racing and he may be far more adept at a mile now then in the past. Gingras has suggested he's capable of a 1:46 mile but needs the other horses to push him and that might be the problem if this is not a strong crop of open class horses.

More likely to be a race at the red mile they'd target then a time trial I'd think. Dont think time trials are in vogue much anymore, is a galloping pacemaker permitted?

[Messenger]

He certainly wont be trained for anything else over there Dot. I could amend my post to - "He wasn't considered exceptional over the mile here"

[Dot]

Canadian Pacing Derby

Post time: 07:10 P.M. Lasix: 02:55 P.M. Horses Entered: 10
1 Split The House(L) B Miller C Oakes
2 Lazarus N Y Gingras J Takter
3 Mcwicked(L) D Miller C Coleman
4 Rockin Ron(L) L Roy R Burke
5 Filibuster Hanover Y Gingras R Burke
6 All Bets Off(L) M Kakaley R Burke
7 Nirvana Seelster(L) Trev Henry W Budd
8 Sintra(L) J Jamieson D Menary
9 Dr J Hanover(L) B Miller T Alagna
10 Western Fame To Be Announced J Takter
Race 1 - Retention Barn - All horses

[Showgrounds]

Interesting. 70% of the field racing on Lasix.

[Messenger]

Interesting. 70% of the field racing on Lasix.

It must be like taking vitamins for insurance over there Trevor. I clicked on the fields for their 10 race program today - every single horse listed as being on Lasix

https://woodbine.com/mohawk/race/#!/WOH/All/2018-08-28

[Messenger]

Here is the link for the free program for the meeting (Lazarus R8) BUT it does not state the race times!
It would appear that the meeting begins at 7.10pm (post time) and with Toronto 14hrs behind us that would be 9.10am Sunday AEST here with Lazarus's race closer to midday I guess

https://woodbine.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/free_programs/Free_Program_WOH_2018-09-01.pdf

[Beltane]

Details of the Lazarus start times:

"...With improved fitness and a far better barrier (gate two) against a similar field, Lazarus is TAB’s $1.45 favourite to repeat the dose at 11.45am AEST Sunday.

Such was the buzz created by Lazarus’ debut US win, Sky Racing 1 has cleared a 30-minute window to take the Canadian showcase coverage of the Derby from 11.30am...."

[Messenger]

Thanks Steve

[Messenger]

They are saying disappointing - it is most disappointing for the sport downunder if the bubble has burst

[gutwagon]

they are saying disappointing - it is most disappointing for the sport downunder if the bubble has burst
pop !

[gutwagon]

The time was fairly slow by their standards and he didn't show any of his normal fight when he was challenged, lets hope he just had an off day !

[hugdon]

Oops lost that one Rich. Have yet to jump BUT might have to stick with Kevs "odds on"

[Danno]

https://standardbredcanada.ca/news/9-3-18/lazarus-n-scopes-sick.html

[Messenger]

https://standardbredcanada.ca/news/9-3-18/lazarus-n-scopes-sick.html

A virus would be most believable Dan for although they say he fought it out for 2nd - that is not the fight we know Lazarus possesses

[Danno]

A virus would be most believable Dan for although they say he fought it out for 2nd - that is not the fight we know Lazarus possesses

I hope he gets no longer term ill effects Kev, it looks like a lower grade virus and his slightly sub par performance would give you some confidence about that, however horses that TRY harder than most sometimes get hit harder than most by these things. I hope for the his sake the damage is in the minimum.


cheers,

Dan

[Greg Hando]

Lazarus Race 9 Number 6. at Mohawk 2.15 pm Sydney time i think it works out we are 16 hrs ahead.

[Messenger]

Thanks Greg

https://woodbine.com/mohawk/race/#!/WOH/9/2018-09-15

Just a regular race and I notice the WHOLE field is on Lasix now

[gutwagon]

Kevin, in that form guide is the weight the drivers weight in pounds ? A few of our drivers wouldn't be too keen on having their weight in the race book !

[Messenger]

It would seem so Rick LOL. I have seen a few drivers who would be more than double Kerryn, Kate & co but there are those who tell you that weight does not matter

[thepacingman]

Lazarus Race 9 Number 6. at Mohawk 2.15 pm Sydney time i think it works out we are 16 hrs ahead.

14 hours ahead of Ontario.
You need to put your alarm on. As they say: Post-time 2:05AM Sunday morning here.
Could not help but notice 20 minutes between each race. They've got that one right.

[Richard prior]

Are you sure that’s right?? I think you’ll find it’s PM

[Greg Hando]

Thanks Stephen it is 14 hrs and yes pm Richard

[Grinder]

10.15 pm Saturday night in Toronto, Ontario, Canada will be:
12.15pm Sunday AEST (i.e NSW, Vic, Qld, Tas) .
10.15am Sunday AWST (i.e WA)
11.45am Sunday ACST (i.e SA and NT)

[Grinder]

If Laz doesn't win this one by a sizeable margin he definitely is not well, IMO.

[Richard prior]

Totally agree Grinder

[gutwagon]

Thanks Greg

https://woodbine.com/mohawk/race/#!/WOH/9/2018-09-15

Just a regular race and I notice the WHOLE field is on Lasix now


Trainer claims on twitter that Laz is not on Lasix, so makes a mockery of the form guide.

[Greg Hando]

10.15 pm Saturday night in Toronto, Ontario, Canada will be:
12.15pm Sunday AEST (i.e NSW, Vic, Qld, Tas) .
10.15am Sunday AWST (i.e WA)
11.45am Sunday ACST (i.e SA and NT)

Thanks Dave 10.15 am NZ time ?.

[Messenger]

Thanks Dave 10.15 am NZ time ?.

NZ are ahead of us Greg

But doesn't that form guide suggest that it is a Saturday morning meet in Ontario - very strange
so 12.05pm (R9) Ontario would be 2.05am (Sunday) AEST

[halfyourluck]

Kevin, Post time for the first race is 7.25PM their time, it is definitely evening racing. What might be happening is when you go to the Woodbine website it is recognizing your location and giving you the times for your own timezone thus the 12.05PM being shown. In any case TAB site will most likely be betting on them so times will show up on their site in the morning. Also on the program are eliminations for the Metro (2yo boys) Races 1 and 2 and the Shes A Great Lady (for 2yo girls) Races 6&8. The boys final a week later for $890,000 and the girls for $590,000. With Captain Treacherous and Sweet Lou currently top of the 2yo Sires earnings, and both represented in the eliminations, there will be much interest in where the $ end up going. Sportwriter also has one of the fancied filly entrants, already with $256K earnings and being 6 from 8 for the season, and there is a Mr Wiggles colt from the Christian Cullen mare Chausettes Blanche (family of Luxury Liner and Christopher Vance etc) also involved

[Messenger]

Graeme you are no doubt right - those little 'cookies' are tracking me!
Thanks for the 'horses to follow' summary

[gutwagon]

The low 1.48 ths is as fast as he can go for a mile. Can't see him winning many more.

[gutwagon]

I don't understand why he was in that race, he had nothing to gain value and reputation wise. Just wiped a huge chunk off his value imo.

[Dot]

I believe he was there Rick because Jimmy Takter believes he will benefit from more exposure to the American style of racing. If he comes out and goes 1:46 at the red mile and/or triumphs in the Breeders Crown at Pocono then no doubt this race will be forgotten. If he doesn't then yes the U.S. experiment will have failed but none of us should forget what he was capable of and achieved downunder

[Dot]

Rick, Kev, Laz and a couple of others not on Lasix in this version of the field


9 -- Pace, purse $34,000 (EX, P3, SU, TR)
PREFERRED.
Post time: 10:15 P.M. Lasix: 06:00 P.M. Horses Entered: 9
1 Te Kawau N(L) J Jamieson A Montini 10-1
2 Rockin In Heaven J Harris T Symes 8-1
3 Continual Hanover(L) B Mcclure J Gillis 10-1
4 Humboldt(L) D Mcnair B Wallace 15-1
5 Nirvana Seelster(L) Trev Henry W Budd 5-1
6 American Wiggle L Roy R Moreau 6-1
7 Lazarus N Y Gingras J Takter 3-5
8 Major Hill(L) J Drury C Auciello 20-1
9 Fine Diamond(L) S Filion R Moreau 20-1

[Messenger]

Mick Guerin's take on the 2nd

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/lazarus-was-good-in-defeat-and-will-improve-says-jimmy-takter/

[Greg Hando]

Lazarus is in R11 No 6 at 11.50 am Saturday morning

[gutwagon]

Thanks for that info Greg. I don't think he will start fav this time.
Strange that they list the horses that are on lasix if it is not performance enhancing !

[gutwagon]

He does seem to go better when leading and they seem willing to let him lead. Nice win .

[Dot]

Can you see him winning a few more now Rick?

He wasn't used out the gate the previous start and settled 4th, and paced a53.2 second half and couldn't pick up a leade who went 54.1 and 54. It wasn't s bad run but a conservative one after the virus effected run.

Used off the gate and controlled the race and back to winning, just. Being able to lead and control the race is a big thing in many of these U.S. Stakes races. Whether he can go faster then 1:48 remains to be seen. They may try for a super quick time in Lexington or just be content to try and win there and at the breeders crown.

[Messenger]

Where do I find it men, Hoosier Park Results haven't even got Friday listed yet

http://www.hoosierpark.com/racing/racing-information/results/

[Dot]

Where do I find it men, Hoosier Park Results haven't even got Friday listed yet

http://www.hoosierpark.com/racing/racing-information/results/

Hmmm, sexist much.....

[Greg Hando]

U.S. ENTRIES AND RESULTS
updated Sat 9/22 0:33 AM

Hoosier Park - IN • 9/21/18 • Race 11 • Post Time 9:53

RACE 11 - Hoosier Park - IN - September 21, 2018
Conditions: **THE HOOSIER PARK PACING DERBY** Free For All (noon raceday detention PADDOCK)
Gait: Pace Purse: $177,000 Class: HP Pac Der Distance: 1 mile Track Cond: FT Temp-Allow: 72-0 Off Time: 9:53 PM
HN Horse PP 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Finish Actual LQ Odds Driver Trainer
6 Lazarus N 6 1°/1H 1/1H 1/1T 1/2 1/NK 1:48.4 25.4 *1.20 Yannick Gingras Jimmy Takter
3 Mcwicked 3 5/7 5°/5Q 5°/3T 4/3Q 2/NK 1:48.4 25.0 2.20 David Miller Casie Coleman
4 Donttellmeagain 4 6/8H 7°/7 6°/5T 5/4H 3/H 1:48.4 24.3 10.50 Tim Tetrick Jim King Jr
1 Split The House 1 3/3Q 4/3T 4/3T 6/4H 4/2 1:49.1 25.2 2.60 Scott Zeron Chris Oakes
2 Western Fame 2 4/5 3°/3H 2°/1T 2/2 5/3 1:49.2 26.0 36.00 Andrew McCarthy Jimmy Takter
5 Filibuster Hanover 5 2/1H 2/1H 3/2 3/3 6/3 1:49.2 26.0 22.10 Ronnie Wrenn Jr. Ron Burke
8 Dealt A Winner 8 8/12Q 6/6T 7/6 7/6 7/4H 1:49.3 25.2 106.30 Andy Miller Mark Silva
7 Beckhams Z Tam 7 7/10T 8/8T 8/8 8/7T 8/6Q 1:50.0 25.2 99.30 Ricky Macomber Jr Jamie Macomber
9 All Bets Off 9 9/14 9/10Q 9/9T 9/9Q 9/7Q 1:50.1 25.1 46.20 Matt Kakaley Ron Burke
Time: 26.0 55.0 (29.0) 1:23.0 (28.0) 1:48.4 (25.4)

[Greg Hando]

Lazarus has the 6th fastest mile in the US this year in his Q run at 1.48.3 pretty good considering all the travel,climatising etc.

[Messenger]

Hmmm, sexist much.....

I knew you would say that LOL
I had started to write my post after Rick's post and thought I had better look a bit harder myself and then by the time I posted I noticed you had posted in between time

[gutwagon]

He may win another one Dot, the current batch of horses over there don't seem to be able to break 1.48 so he has a chance. On a side note the racing is very boring over there, often just single file with hardly any moves .

[Messenger]

Kim French reports from the USA

http://www.harnesslink.com/USA/For-Release--Lazarus-N-Fends-Off-McWicked-to-Win-Hoosier-Park-Pacing-Derby

[Dot]

Possibly a hick up in plans for Lazarus to race every week, as a supplemental entry he has been made first emergency for the Dayton Derby as sufficient horses made the prerequisite stakes payments to fill the field.

[Dot]

ALLERAGE FARM OPEN at The Red Mile


PP Horse Med 2018 North America YTD Driver Trainer ML Base
Sts W P S Time Earnings Stable Odds Claim
1 Mcwicked L 14 7 3 2 1:48.3F $964364 Brian Sears Casie Coleman 5-2
2 All Bets Off L 16 2 0 2 1:48.0M $135703 Scott Zeron Ron Burke 10-1
3 Rockin Ron L 21 5 5 3 1:50.1H $482155 Corey Callahan Ron Burke 20-1
4 Heaven Rocks A
FOR: 4 1-1-1 $93163 L 6 2 2 0 1:49.3F $82211(i) David Miller Ross Croghan 12-1
5 Lazarus N
FOR: 5 2-1-1 $289613 4 2 2 0 Q1:48.3M $355495(i) Yannick Gingras Jimmy Takter 2-1
6 Filibuster Hanover L 14 5 2 3 1:48.3F $467911 Matt Kakaley Ron Burke 15-1
7 Dr J Hanover L 17 5 2 2 1:49.4S $185786 Douglas Mcnair Tony Alagna 20-1
8 Split The House L 11 2 2 3 1:49.0F $321006 Andrew McCarthy Chris Oakes 12-1
9 Western Fame 21 5 3 2 1:48.4F $259252 Brett Miller Jimmy Takter 15-1
10 Donttellmeagain 13 5 4 1 1:47.2M $368851 Tim Tetrick Jim King Jr 4-1

[KTQ]

Are those seasons winnings or US winnings do you think?

[Dot]

They are seasons. Mcwicked, All Bets Off and Laz at least are lifetime multi millionaires.

[Greg Hando]

Lazarus 2nd beaten about 2mts in 1.46.2 came from 6th on the turn racing 1 off for the mile big run.

[Messenger]

Impressive
The story and replay link

http://www.harnesslink.com/International/McWicked-paces-1-46.2-beats-Lazarus-at-Red-Mile

[Dot]

Take nothing away from McWicked but confirmation of the importance of post position and the trip. Well done McWicked and a great effort from Lazarus.

[Dot]

Jimmy Takter
@JimmyTakter
I am extremely proud of Lazarus performance outside two turns and make up half a length on Mc wicked in the stretch amazing horse
3:57 AM · Oct 7, 2018

[gutwagon]

Have to admit Lazarus has gone better than I ever expected, that run changed my mind. Makes me wonder how fast some of our good mile horses could run at that track. They would smash the 1.46 record , we have had some go 1 to 2 seconds faster than Lazarus ever did here.
US buyers will be taking a good look at our horses now ! At a time that we really need our best horses to stay here.

[Greg Hando]

Yes Dot Mcwicked is a very good horse had the better run result changes if positions swapped i think it wasn't a good drive by Gingras but Lazarus showed his heart by taking ground off Mcwicked over the concluding stages.

[Dot]

Agreed Greg, reverse the draw and runs and Laz wins, but that is racing, and racing luck. Mcwicked is in the record books as the winner but Lazarus loses nothing in running second.

Adam Hamilton
@AdamTABSports
From @JimmyTakter live on @SkyRacingAU - “I could not be prouder. He didn’t get the trip we hoped. He covered at least 4len extra being out deep and that equates to a 1.45.6sec Mile.” Great get @GregHayes78

[Messenger]

Have to admit Lazarus has gone better than I ever expected, that run changed my mind. Makes me wonder how fast some of our good mile horses could run at that track. They would smash the 1.46 record , we have had some go 1 to 2 seconds faster than Lazarus ever did here.
US buyers will be taking a good look at our horses now ! At a time that we really need our best horses to stay here.

I probably thought the same Rick but in the past his campaigns weren't specifically targeting mile racing while now they are - it makes me wonder how many Southern Hem horses really would be better.

There is however no questioning that he was the yardstick when it came to distance races

[Dot]

Not saying we don't have any others that couldn't go similar to Laz (and be successful in the U.S. in open class) but to suggest that they could smash 1:46 because they were 1 or 2 seconds faster then Lazarus here Rick is a big call. Lazarus's last two seasons here started with a NZ Cup campaign over two miles and targeted races longer then a mile after that, mile racing was pretty much an afterthought for his campaigns, and he simply wasn't at his best for those races. Now he is being trained for a mile, and despite a hiccup with illness and a resulting quiet run the qualities that made him a champion here over longer distances are shinning through.

Watching that replay again I don't think we, or they, have another horse that could run that mile like Laz did.

[Showgrounds]

Agree, Dot. MM was always the glass of Port after an 8-course degustation menu for Laz. Never going to be the main course.

Just loved the way he was still powering home on the line yesterday. The real Lazarus.

[Danno]

There are milers and there are others, Lazarus is one of the very mighty "others", sure he will improve his mile racing ability the more he is confronted with it and tries to adjust to it, BUT the horse is not a miler just like Blacks A Fake wasn't , Pure Steel wasn't, Rowley Alla was, Gammalite wasn't and Popular Alm was. Lazarus is the best horse produced in the Southern Hemisphere in probably 25 or 30 years or more, no horse has done to top class stayers in staying races what he has done in my memory and that only goes back to the late sixties.

I would love to see him race McWicked over 2 miles!!! It would be a slaughter, if the people who bought him have any nouse whatsoever, they would be trying to line something like that up and show the world what he is REALLY capable of.

[gutwagon]

All the horses that beat Lazarus in Aus over the mile were also trained to race mostly longer distances and came from similar lead up campaigns. Although he did have probably the hardest lead up to Miracle Miles . I don't see any reason that they would not improve just as much if they were trained for only mile racing in faster carts and on faster tracks. It's just my opinion and unfortunately most of the horses that beat him have retired or broken down so we will probably never find out.

He is doing a great job promoting Australian harness racing to the world and hopefully he will break the world record.

[Danno]

So Rick do you think there are horses that are milers and horses that are not?

What about the very few horses that beat Blacks a Fake and their success or otherwise over a distance or a mile?

Do you also think the gallopers dream up favorite distances for their horses?

How many horses have beaten Lazarus over a distance beyond 2000 meters ?

The horse is light years above all others in his generation over a distance, you can choose to ignore that fact if you like but it remains so if you look at facts that are recorded for those that choose to avail themselves.

[Messenger]

Rick, will no doubt post for himself but I think he was the one who reignited this debate with post 125 by suggesting Laz isn't one of our 'milers'

[gutwagon]

Danno, I'm not sure if you have read all my posts.
I think Laz is one of the best horses Australasia has ever produced over distances above one mile. I have never disputed that.


I do think some horses are better over shorter trips and some are better over longer trips. The figures on Lazarus for one mile races in Aus are 4 starts for 1 win. Over longer distances he was rarely beaten.
I think Lazarus goes best over trips longer than one mile and I am amazed that he is running such good times in US and Canada.


Some people on here and other forums seem to think that the horses that beat him here over one mile would not improve their mile performances as much as Lazarus has. I think they would improve to a similar extent and I think some of them could run faster miles than he has.



These are my opinions and I am well aware of all the facts and figures . I have never ignored his record over longer distances or disputed his ability over distance. I think that you have misunderstood my post . I am just curious as to how fast the horses that beat him here over the mile could go in the US. I don't think any of them were better horses overall but they could run faster miles than Lazarus did in Australia. So I think some of them might have been able to go even quicker over a mile than whatever time Laz ends up going.

[Dot]

It was frequently remarked during Smoken Ups career and domination of mile racing on the Menangle track what a great stayer he was. And mile racing at its fastest is exactly that, a staying test, there are no cheap sectionals, no breathers in the run, Lazarus is a great stayer, perhaps our greatest stayer, and therefore he is a great miler, and very likely our greatest miler too.

[aussiebreno]

It was frequently remarked during Smoken Ups career and domination of mile racing on the Menangle track what a great stayer he was. And mile racing at its fastest is exactly that, a staying test, there are no cheap sectionals, no breathers in the run, Lazarus is a great stayer, perhaps our greatest stayer, and therefore he is a great miler, and very likely our greatest miler too.
Laz is possibly the greatest 2400m+ stayer because of his aerobic capacity can maintain 27,28 qtrs all day long.
His anaerobic capacity isn't as great at staying and is what what brings him back to the field because he can't sustain three 26qtrs as well as a Soho Tribeca can.
As an aside his speed/acceleration is also only par with other Grand Circuit horses. Not quite so simply but its his aerobic capacity that wins him his races.

Note the final two quarters on a lightning fast track were 27 and 27. In the two Miracle Mile failures
one featured a 26.1 and the other a 25.9 quarter in the last 800m. Quarters the other days were perfect for Laz. He eased off in the 26 opening quarter so his anaerobic capacity wasn't tested like it was in the Miracle Miles.
Same story in his Chariots of Fire mile win - his anaerobic energy stores never got depleted because there was only 27 quarters.

Smoken Up great anaerobic stores and record at the Mile. Im Themightyquinn had weaker anaerobic stores and stops his amazing sprint after a few hundred metres. Head to head who had the better record at distances 2400m+? It wasnt the 'Stayer' it was Quinny. Different energy systems required at different distances and even across the way same distance races are run.

[Richard prior]

I’ll put my 2 bobs worth in and no argument with what’s been posted above, To me, Lazarus is a very intelligent horse that has gone from 1 training regime to a completely different 1 in another country, He’s landed in Nth America with 1 thing in mind, Mile racing and has adapted very quickly to this style of racing, He is far better over longer distances as we know but it’s staggering to me just how far he’s proggressed and how much his PB’s have come down, Now he’s in the 1.46 plus range which is a hell of an achievement and Jimmy Takter must take a lot of credit for this, To turn a very seasoned horse around from racing over a variety of distances to just Mile racing is an incredible feat

[Dot]

Agree Richard bar one thing and that's the "he is far better over longer distances as we know". Lazarus has been more successful over longer distances racing down under but that doesn't necessarily translate directly to he is better over longer distances then he is over a mile.

As Brenno posted above horses do have varying aerobic and anerobic excercise capacity, and fast, slow and adaptive muscle fibres, and different energy systems are required to win races depending distance and on the way the race is run. But muscle fibre and aerobic and anaerobic capacity are adaptive and modify (to a degree) as a result of training, that is excercise intensity and duration.

With a focus on distance racing downunder, particularly in NZ, no doubt Lazarus training routine was tailored to maximising his ability over longer distances in a manner Mark Purdon has used with success for many years, which along with the proportion of distance races as opposed to mile races in his resume was unlikely to give a true indication of his ability over a mile. Certainly in that last MM he drew 10 and arguably he was effected by ill health, and there were at least three horses who went great races that day, most outstanding to me Soho Tribecca.

But the improvement in a horse is not unlimited, Lazarus's "poor" mile times but otherwise phenomenal record, meant he had room for major improvement over the mile, and he has adapted and found it under a program tailored for mile racing by Jimmy Takter. I've every respect for what Our Field Marshall, Jilliby Kung Fu and in particularl Soho Tribecca achieved in the last miracle mile but they were clearly at the top of their game on the day and would certainly be compeditive in the top class in the U.S. and perhaps improve their marks a little but I don't believe they are open to the same degree of improvement over a mile that Lazarus was.

[gutwagon]

Dot we are talking about hypothetical situations and personal opinions . I would love to see the 3 horses you mentioned above go to the US and see what they could do. My opinion is that at least one of them would go better than 1.46 and faster than what ever Lazarus does. I may be wrong, I have been before , on the odd occasion I am proved correct. I respect everyone's opinion on here and we will just have to agree to disagree.
I must say that I can't make much sense out of Danno's last post. Is it just me ?

[Dot]

$430,000 Breeders Crown Open Pace

PP-Horse-Driver-Trainer-ML
1-Filibuster Hanover-Matt Kakaley-Ron Burke-4/1
2-Lazarus N-Yannick Gingras-Jimmy Takter-3/1
3-McWicked-Brian Sears-Casie Coleman-5/2
4-Western Fame-Brett Miller-Jimmy Takter-6/1
5-Rockin Ron-Chris Page-Ron Burke-12/1
6-Donttellmeagain-Tim Tetrick-Jim King Jr.-9/2
7-All Bets Off-Matt Kakaley-Ron Burke-10/1
8-Dealt A Winner-David Miller-Mark Silva-15/1

[KTQ]

Filibuster Hanover.. inneresting

[Dot]

McWicked outstanding, all credit to the connections, something obviously amiss with Lazarus, a disappointing likely end to his US campaign

[Messenger]

Luke's report

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/world-racing-mcwicked-champion-in-the-states/

[gutwagon]

Any news on Lazarus yet ? I hope they don't retire him after that run, he deserves better.

[Dot]

Michael Guerin
@GuerinSports
·
Oct 29
No excuses, just disappointment for his horse from Jimmy Takter after Lazarus dropped out in Breeders Crown: “Poor guy, he must really have had a bug attacking him. He was beaten at the three-quarter pole.”
Plans for the great horse decided over next two weeks, stud most likely

[Dot]

Jimmy Takter is retiring at the end of the year so for Laz to race on next season in the US the connections would also need to decide on a new trainer. McWicked’s future also undecided, Cassie Coleman would like him to race on but owner apparently favours stud career.

[KTQ]

What I find so insane is the fact that they haven't let him recover. He was sick when he got there and it's like they are just so money hungry they won't just let him have a full 2 weeks off to get 100%. He's been on antibiotics and yet they're racing him. You couldn't pay me for that trainer to have one of mine - that kind of behaviour destroys horses (though I have none to give anyway haha)

[gutwagon]

Reports that he had blood and mucus in his lungs after race. Really does seem strange that they even let him race.

[Dot]

Sadly it seems Danno was very much right when he wrote at the beginning of the thread that Laz had been reduced to a commercial asset. The plan for Lazarus was certainly ambitious with much that could and did go wrong, and the timing was not in his favour. It looks that downunder punters can be thankful that their interests are much better looked after by stewards here then they are by the “judges” in North America.

Lazarus’s connections must have been hoping for a miracle in the breeders crown, the SAA test used to determine Laz was ill before Yonkers is a very sensitive biomarker is for inflammation as the result of infection and is easily administered and accurate in real time. Continue to use this test and connections could not possibly have not known that Laz was still effected by illness when he lined up in the breeders crown.

Sadly it certainly seems the “commercial” and “its the business” attitude prevalent in NA was applied to Lazarus starting in the Breeders crown but without that miracle it’s hard to know what connections expected to achieve. Nothing Laz did in the US should make us look at him in a lesser light for it is apparent that he was let down badly by his connections. Although it was not a winning effort we should be in awe of the mile, with so many people downunder still claiming he is not a miler, Laz paced at the Red Mile and list it with his greatest achievements downunder.

[gutwagon]

It would seem that Jimmy Takter has little respect for his horses if he knew Lazarus was not well before the race. If owners tried to pressure him into starting an unfit horse he should have told them to find another trainer.
Lets hope there is no permanent damage to his lungs and he can race a few more times to show his true potential.

I'm no Purdon fan but I doubt he would have let him run until he was fully recovered.

[teecee]

Compliments of All Stars Harness Racing...

http://www.allstarsracingstables.com/special-occasions

“Nobody ever rang. I didn’t really expect it because that is the way they do it over there but then maybe I could have been of some help to Jimmy even though he is such a great trainer. Because the environment and racing is so different they prefer to form their own opinions and fair enough. ”

[figgy1]

This is an excerpt from an article in NZ Herald in June 2018 about Lazarus......so I find it interesting that he has made the statement he did in the above article on their webpage??


But one text on Saturday morning, as he was preparing for his six-win domination at the Harness Jewels at Cambridge, brought a wry smile to Purdon's face.

It was from North American trainer Jimmy Takter, the new trainer of Purdon's champion pacer Lazarus.

Takter is a harness racing legend. His horses have won more than US$120 million. He wanted to chat to Purdon.

"Jimmy texted saying he had got my number off somebody and he wanted me to know that Laz has arrived safe and sound and looked great," said Purdon.

"And then he asked me if we could talk sometimes because he had some questions about Laz.

"I was stoked to get the text and am looking forward to talking to him because he is obviously one of the leading trainers in the world and I am really hoping Laz will do a great job up there so I am happy to help," said Purdon yesterday.

"To be honest, if Laz was going really well and was set for a decent race or two in September, I'd love to go up there and watch him race and even ask Jimmy if I could spend some time at his stables.

"I think that would be a really good experience."

[Dot]

Similar to the above in some Media Jimmy Takter is quoted as saying although Laz was on antibiotics they didn’t think there was anything still wrong with him, in others that the SAA test never really normalised. Hard to know what the real stories are.

But what is known now is Lazarus future is at stud and he will stand at Deo Volente farms in 2019

[gutwagon]

It would help his US stud career if he kept racing a bit longer and improved his time. They never got to see him at his best , it would be a sad way to end his racing life.