Hunter Cup 2019

[Messenger]

I will make it easy for you to find the field. It is not front and centre on trots.com.au as they only list until Feb 1 so you have to click Full Calendar then change from Jan to Feb - UNBELIEVABLE

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX020219#MXM02021901

You can piece it together from Cody's story

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/hunter-cup-latest-from-the-barrier-draw/

But the bottom of the Harnesslink News story by Adam Hamilton was much simpler

http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia/Ideal-draw-for-Tiger-Tara

It is hard to believe a C6/M1 can get a gig

[Messenger]

Has the draw ruined the contest and made it a potential procession for Tiger Tara?

[Dot]

Not a full field Kev, and probably not the Butt stables first choice representative either.

[Dot]

The $1.50 for Tiger Tara suggests so Kev. Very Hard not to see him not leading and Toddy not getting some easy sectionals again early.

[Messenger]

Feb 2 (Hunter Cup) has now been added to listed meetings making it much easier to find the field
I reckon they are listening ;) (they would no doubt deny it LOL)

[PremiumEdition]

Yes Kev an M1 in the Hunter Cup sheeesh, I know its almost impossible to compare great horse from the past but I saw Waitaki Hanover win the Hunter Cup at the Showgrounds from 24yd behind and ran something like 2.06 for the 14 furlongs (2800m) around a saucer from a Stand Start. I'd would love to see the gooduns of yesterday on the bigger tracks of today.

[teecee]

Yes Kev an M1 in the Hunter Cup sheeesh, I know its almost impossible to compare great horse from the past but I saw Waitaki Hanover win the Hunter Cup at the Showgrounds from 24yd behind and ran something like 2.06 for the 14 furlongs (2800m) around a saucer from a Stand Start. I'd would love to see the gooduns of yesterday on the bigger tracks of today.

Gosh M1 eh??? Well that's not too bad eh? After all the race is open to all and sundry M0+

[Messenger]

But should it be Tony? Should a horse that has never won a Metro race be eligible for an elite race?

The M1 this year is Raukapuka Ruler: assessed as R88 in NZ
He had 1 win (his M0) and 0 placings in the last season and a bit before being exported here
Here he has run a nice second to My Field Marshal in a Metro race and in his non Metro win at Menangle ran good time (both only mile races). A slow Goulburn win is his only other credit.
He has ability but has only put one real score on the board - The Norhern Derby nearly 2 years ago. Is that enough to be entitled to a crack at the Hunter Cup.
Admittedly others have been given a shot with less

In the NZ Cup the only creditable run by a horse rated <100 was that of Forgotten Highway who managed 8th

I suppose it depends on whether you see the AG Hunter as a 'Cox Plate' or a 'Melbourne Cup'

I guess programming it as a M0+ makes it the latter

[Dot]

Not exactly Kev, the Melbourne Cup is a handicap, if the Hunter Cup was the true equivalent then Raukapuala Ruler would be getting a start on the likes of Tiger Tara from a stand.

[Messenger]

Yeah, you cannot really compare the 2 codes for even their weight for age (different weights for different ages) would have to be a handicap in our code to achieve the equivalent.
If the Hunter Cup was still a stand you could have your handicap
As it is the draw must seem like a preferential draw to the NZers (but with Tiger being exempt)

[aussiebreno]

Go back to 2006 we had the Hunter Cup, an M4plus, M2-M3. This year there is half the horses. With prizemoney for normal Metro racing now so good in most states is there less of an incentive to travel for interstate features?

[teecee]

But should it be Tony? Should a horse that has never won a Metro race be eligible for an elite race?

The M1 this year is Raukapuka Ruler: assessed as R88 in NZ
He had 1 win (his M0) and 0 placings in the last season and a bit before being exported here
Here he has run a nice second to My Field Marshal in a Metro race and in his non Metro win at Menangle ran good time (both only mile races). A slow Goulburn win is his only other credit.
He has ability but has only put one real score on the board - The Norhern Derby nearly 2 years ago. Is that enough to be entitled to a crack at the Hunter Cup.
Admittedly others have been given a shot with less

In the NZ Cup the only creditable run by a horse rated <100 was that of Forgotten Highway who managed 8th

I suppose it depends on whether you see the AG Hunter as a 'Cox Plate' or a 'Melbourne Cup'

I guess programming it as a M0+ makes it the latter

What you are really asking is how do group 1 winners over here get into Group one races over there? The answer to that is obvious I would say.
The next question is how do group 1 winners over here get M0 or M1 assessments over there? That is a question I don't have an answer to that satisfys my own curiosity.
The next question is why are Australian over there starting to buy our better horses like the aforementioned Raukapuka Ruler along with Sicario and yes even Tiger Tara and Chicago Bull to name but a few? It's because they will go over there to such a low rating that they can pay back in truckloads for their large purchase price. Everyone wins. Kiwis get bigger money for their best horses, Aussies buy these good horses to race for good money against lesser lights due to their assessment paying back their outlay with major interest.
The only losers are the poor Aussies who have to compete against these and the Australian administrators who are slow to react to what their handicapping system is doing to the industry.

Just as the foal numbers in Australia are down season on season so too are our foal numbers. It's already at the stage of you taking our best knowing you can make up your outlay on a good NZ horse. As Aussie's breeding barn we will soon run out of horses. What then? IMO the answer lies in your handicapping system.
Back to the original point. Raukupuka Ruler (20-6-2) Gp1(1-0-0) is well qualified on race performance to compete in the Hunter Cup. WE are having to allow any race winners into the NZ Cup when previously you needed 10 Handicap wins just to nominate. Why the change?
Our intermediate graders have been exported. And now the market wants our best and will pay anything for them knowing the outlay will return a handsome profit all things considered.

[Messenger]

Yes I suppose RR was not a good M1 to pick on - being a Gp1 winner

You have had to change noms for the NZ Cup because of our thieving - you would think with all our purchases we might have had an even hotter field (and a full field) for tonight's Hunter but on reflection it is a pretty good field

[Messenger]

I noticed with the dining options for tonight that if you wanted to be in the Legends Room you would want to be a drinker as the only option was $125 per person with drinks

https://www.summerofglory.com.au/aghuntercupdining/

[Richard prior]

Words of Wisdom Tony

[Dot]

Hopefully the proposed ratings system will work to address the current imbalance, but attention to programming and prizemoney and more will be required to return sustainability to the industry in each state and both countries. And whilst no doubt the financial returns weight heavily in the minds of most purchasers of NZ stock that isn’t always the case, with the wife of one very wealthy purchaser of recents times apparently declaring we don’t care about the money, we just want the trophies!

[Messenger]

A magnificent Record breaking win by the Tiger. There were black figures to be had on track!

[aussiebreno]

Ladbrokes had a $2.50 promo. Only allowed $20 max bet but better than nothing.

We had the big 3 fall away (Laz, Bull, Tribeca) but this is one of the all time great seasons. Preux Chevalier 84/85 probably just slightly ahead heading into the Miracle Mile. Any other challengers?

[Dot]

How quickly we forget. Laz last year. NZ Cup, with TT in it, ID with TT, Bull and ST. Freo Cup (2nd) wide the journey with Bull and ST, Hunter Cup, with TT and ST.

[aussiebreno]

How quickly we forget. Laz last year. NZ Cup, with TT in it, ID with TT, Bull and ST. Freo Cup (2nd) wide the journey with Bull and ST, Hunter Cup, with TT and ST.
Lazarus's wins unreal and given the opposition and the way he did it I have Lazarus ahead of Tiger Tara in terms of ability. I'm just talking in terms of what their honour roll/# of Gp1 wins looks like at the end of the season:

Preux Chevalier won what I consider the big 4 of Aust Harness - ID, Hunter Cup, Miracle Mile and Vic Cup. He doesn't go down as good as a Popular Alm or a Gammalite in the history books but that was some season when looking at the honour rolls.

Tiger Tara 3/4 of the way there with a 2nd to boot in the NZ Cup. As good as horses like Blacks a Fake are I don't think they have managed to win that many big Grand Circuit races in the one season.

Laz only

[Yabbie]

I noticed with the dining options for tonight that if you wanted to be in the Legends Room you would want to be a drinker as the only option was $125 per person with drinks

https://www.summerofglory.com.au/aghuntercupdining/



Kevin - this is standard for all major meetings (Hunter Cup, Vic Cup, Great Southern Star, the Interdom in December etc), and has always been the case since the move to Melton.

[Messenger]

Kevin - this is standard for all major meetings (Hunter Cup, Vic Cup, Great Southern Star, the Interdom in December etc), and has always been the case since the move to Melton.

Not good enough then Carol. We were not interested in drinking as we were continuing on to Melbourne after the cup
We were able to purchase a dining package at the Ballarat Cup and simply pay for/order (or not) the drinks we wanted

[Dot]

Agree not good enough, I’m a non drinker and I don’t find paying a premium for a meal to subsidise those who drink an attractive option. Likewise as an owner I receive no benefit from being offered free drinks if I attend Tabcorp Park Melton when my horses are entered. Admittedly residing in WA I’m not likely to be attending very often but more effort is required from Tabcorp Park Melton to offer packages and benefits that suit everyone not just the easy option of offering up free or cheap alcoholic beverages that suit some.

[Yabbie]

Not good enough then Carol. We were not interested in drinking as we were continuing on to Melbourne after the cup
We were able to purchase a dining package at the Ballarat Cup and simply pay for/order (or not) the drinks we wanted


On normal race meetings it is possible to book for the buffet with or without a drinks package. As I advised, the major meeting are always all inclusive.
Your other option is to book in the Bistro on the ground floor.
If you have an alternate suggestion, perhaps you should contact Gayle, the general manager at TABCORP Park to discuss options.
I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with the situation, but you won't get anything changed by commenting on this forum - TABCORP Park has been open for about 7 years and this is the history.
I note Messenger's comment about Ballarat but all clubs are run independently and Ballarat (and Cranbourne) both offer a dining only option.


Cheers

[Messenger]

Contact, I will do but don't underestimate the power of social media Carol
Mine was a last minute decision to go and I could not bring myself to pay $70 for a buffet