Robbie Byrnes warned off

[triplev123]

Thursday8 September 2011


Please be advisedthat licensed person Mr Robbie BYRNES was “Warned Off” by theBoard of HRNSW effective yesterday.



Mr BYRNES failedto adhere to requests to provide records in relation to the currentinvestigation being conducted.



Accordingly MrByrnes is under the same embargo as a disqualified person.



Note: The HarnessRules of Racing relevant to this matter are:



§ Rule187 (2): A person shall not refuse to answer questions or to produce ahorse, document, substance or piece of equipment, or give false or misleadingevidence for information at an enquiry or investigation;




§ Rule187 (3): A person shall comply with an order or direction given by thestewards;




§ Rule187 (7): A person who fails to comply with any provision of this rule isguilty of an offence.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EUytEX_XkE

[Just because]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7kYVjL2lps

[Diesel]

Hmm Tuddah..........

[Flashing Red]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7kYVjL2lps

What? They didn't sing the best line of the song! lol! Was that line not in the original version?

[triplev123]

Ah yes...the much adored and widely sung refrain. Very appropriate in this instance.

[Just because]

Flashing it wasn't actually the Angels who thought up the extra lyrics so to speak. I heard Doc Neeson in an interview a few years ago and he said they were playing a gig in Darwin and someone yelled it out from the crowd and it stuck

[ringman]

lets hope they are not suspicious of R Byrnes doing anything untoward yessssssssssss they got the mongrel and life should be the penalty.

[Mark Croatto]

Ah yes...the much adored and widely sung refrain. Very appropriate in this instance.

G'day big fella

I remember back in the early 80's at the Whitlam Centre (Bass Hill) stuffing around for ages before asking this very attractive young lady up to dance, surprisingly she said yes and we walked out onto the dance floor only to hear this classic fire up; including the much adored and widely sung refrain! Not the way I had hoped it would work out!

Regards

Mark

[Flashing Red]

Flashing it wasn't actually the Angels who thought up the extra lyrics so to speak. I heard Doc Neeson in an interview a few years ago and he said they were playing a gig in Darwin and someone yelled it out from the crowd and it stuck

Are you serious? I am a pretty boring person now, but I can tell you when I use to go out when this song was played IT WENT OFF! Absolutely hilarious that probably about the only line I know of it, wasn't in the original! Learn something new every day! :)

[Thevoiceofreason]

Are you serious? I am a pretty boring person now, but I can tell you when I use to go out when this song was played IT WENT OFF! Absolutely hilarious that probably about the only line I know of it, wasn't in the original! Learn something new every day! :)

Is there any news on the Robbie Byrnes appeal

[Airds]

Not sure VOR , I thought you would know

[Dmoore]

What time is it in Macau??
Apparently Burnes won a major greyhound race recently the Australian Cup or something, but the dog was in someone elses name? Didnt know he was into the greyhounds as well...

[Thevoiceofreason]

My understanding is Robbie Byrnes got into greyhounds some time ago when he was suffering from a bad back.

I was sure he appealed but from time to time they take a while to get through the system of the Racing Appeals Tribunal.

If I had seen anything on the website I would not have asked.

[The Form Student]

What time is it in Macau??
Apparently Burnes won a major greyhound race recently the Australian Cup or something, but the dog was in someone elses name? Didnt know he was into the greyhounds as well...

I think he was training greyhounds before he even became a trotting driver..........I would say back in the 1970's, I used to see him walking the dogs quite often!.......I also remember him driving the "Alsco Linen" truck around for a living!
To be honest, in the few conversations I had with Robbie over the years, I never had a problem with him, he was out to back a winner, like everyone else!.........At one stage, he was travelling all over the place as a leading driver, when he teamed up with the Peter Walsh stable!........ don't know what happened recently.......but I suppose the temptation for the easy dollar was too much, maybe he was not travelling to kindly at the time!

[Airds]

VOR, I thought you would know and not need to look anything up ?

T F S, your comment of the temptation of an easy dollar, You make referance to that he was involved in the scandal ? Do you know this for a fact ? From what I have read and heard he is not involved in the scandal was simply warned off for failing to produce Mobile ph records for a mobile number that he does not even own ! It has been almost 7 months on the sidelines for him, No enquiry or stay given, Others that have been charged have not been warned off, They can train, go to racetracks, etc. which I am a big believer innocent until proven guilty, Pity not everyone was given that right ! I think his appeal is at the end of this month but VOR would know more about dates and time of when its on.

[Airds]

Doug, Macau ?

[The Form Student]

VOR, I thought you would know and not need to look anything up ?

T F S, your comment of the temptation of an easy dollar, You make referance to that he was involved in the scandal ? Do you know this for a fact ? From what I have read and heard he is not involved in the scandal was simply warned off for failing to produce Mobile ph records for a mobile number that he does not even own ! It has been almost 7 months on the sidelines for him, No enquiry or stay given, Others that have been charged have not been warned off, They can train, go to racetracks, etc. which I am a big believer innocent until proven guilty, Pity not everyone was given that right ! I think his appeal is at the end of this month but VOR would know more about dates and time of when its on.

Sorry, as I said I don't know what has happened recently............just a thought............don't know why he won't produce phone records.........but he does deserve to be innocent until proven otherwise!

[tiny]

I think the treatment of Robbie Byrnes and to a lesser degree the Sarina’s is absolutely disgraceful. I think the stewards sometimes think that they are running the Indonesian judicial system and it is everyone’s responsibility to prove they are innocent not them to prove a person guilty.

Robbie Byrnes has not been charged with anything. The Sarina’s charge but not enough evidence to secure a conviction yet both are stood down. However heaps or trainers with positive swabs still training. Other whom it is strongly “suggested” may have an involvement in the swabbing scandal still training.

Why two sets of rules stand them all down or leave them all alone.

[The Form Student]

tiny, did you see that Karloo Kix is now allowed to race pending the Baldenone swab case........

[Thevoiceofreason]

I think the treatment of Robbie Byrnes and to a lesser degree the Sarina’s is absolutely disgraceful. I think the stewards sometimes think that they are running the Indonesian judicial system and it is everyone’s responsibility to prove they are innocent not them to prove a person guilty.

Robbie Byrnes has not been charged with anything. The Sarina’s charge but not enough evidence to secure a conviction yet both are stood down. However heaps or trainers with positive swabs still training. Other whom it is strongly “suggested” may have an involvement in the swabbing scandal still training.

Why two sets of rules stand them all down or leave them all alone.

Firstly Robbie Byrnes was warned off by the board of HRNSW, not the stewards for failing to comply with a direction of the board so most certainly he is guilty of an offence.

Racing Authorities or Stewards for that do not have the right to arrest people when they fail to appear or provide information for an investigation their only recourse is to be able to take action against the persons involved licence.

In relation to the Sarina's they have already been charged with an offence and the case is part heard but was adjourned by the judge acting as a steward in this case to allow further evidence to be gathered at no stage has it been said there is insufficient evidence to obtain a conviction, other than by you.

In relation to your comparison to the Indonesian Judicial System, I think the Australian system has something very similar have you heard the term " remanded in custody" they are not proven guilty of any offence either only charged.

Not a lot of difference from my perspective.

[Dmoore]

Byrnes is guilty of an offense is he
VOR?? What would that be champ? I.e what was he charged with, when did he have a hearing and what was the result of that hearing?
Second, what direction did he fail to comply with? Not handing over his wife's phone records? Hmmmmnnnn..... How much compensation is Gordon Wood looking at?? Maybe Sarinas could join him I the same class action.....

[tiny]

Firstly Robbie Byrnes was warned off by the board of HRNSW, not the stewards for failing to comply with a direction of the board so most certainly he is guilty of an offence.

Racing Authorities or Stewards for that do not have the right to arrest people when they fail to appear or provide information for an investigation their only recourse is to be able to take action against the persons involved licence.

In relation to the Sarina's they have already been charged with an offence and the case is part heard but was adjourned by the judge acting as a steward in this case to allow further evidence to be gathered at no stage has it been said there is insufficient evidence to obtain a conviction, other than by you.

In relation to your comparison to the Indonesian Judicial System, I think the Australian system has something very similar have you heard the term " remanded in custody" they are not proven guilty of any offence either only charged.

Not a lot of difference from my perspective.

That's fine VOR but gee they want to get it right. Sam Nati came out at the beginning of the swab scandal and said "this is going to cost people there houses". They will be eating humble pie if it is his or some of his mates at hrnsw.

I like everyone want to see some justice. I just get this feeling it is beyond anyone at hrnsw. Thus far the police investigation has also been a big disappointment.

[Chariots]

Simple solution provide the requested information if you have nothing to hide and prove your innocence.

[Thevoiceofreason]

The irony here is I asked how his appeal went and it seems it is not finalised so it may well be he is found to be not guilty of any offence.

No doubt we will know soon enough.

Having said that Robbie Byrnes knew the rules when he decided to not hand over the phone records.

[Airds]

He knew the rules did he ? Been asked to supply records that are not his to supply ?

[Airds]

Double standards the colonel has, VOR says they have hard evidence and you only get stood down, don't supply records that are not your to supply = warned off, get stood down you can still train go to race tracks etc, warned off you cannot do anything what a joke

[Dmoore]

In post no*20 VOR you stated, "most certainly he is guilty of an offense".....why the backtracking, now you say he may not be guilty of an offence???
Please....stop trying to stir things up in an industry already crippled by the corruption scandal....now you are dragging potentially innocent people into it as well!

[Airds]

Ray, think about your post, how can you supply something that is not yours to supply ? Why should you have to prove your innocent, Jeeese if the police worked like that three quarters of Australia would be in jail. Justice Haylen said "it's not up to them to prove them selves innocent it's up to you to prove them guilty" Mr Sanders, pity the colonel did not do this in the first place may have saved a lot of issues that have arisen out of the scandal and not unesscessarily dragged people's names through the mud. I hear those people are in the process of taking legal action about that issue in the supreme court.

[Thevoiceofreason]

In post no*20 VOR you stated, "most certainly he is guilty of an offense".....why the backtracking, now you say he may not be guilty of an offence???
Please....stop trying to stir things up in an industry already crippled by the corruption scandal....now you are dragging potentially innocent people into it as well!

No what I mean by that is.... as the appeal has not been finalised he may be found not guilty of an offence at that level, most certainly as it stands he is deemed to be guilty of an offence now.

No attempt to stir things up simply stating facts as they are .. not even offering an opinion as to his guilt or otherwise.

[Airds]

As it stands he is guilty of an offence, pleeeeeease, WHAT OFFENCE is that ? Please explain

[Thevoiceofreason]

As it stands he is guilty of an offence, pleeeeeease, WHAT OFFENCE is that ? Please explain

See post 1

and if you believe it was his wife's phone you will be happy because the Easter Bunny will be here soon.

[Dmoore]

Macau is 3 hours behind the East Coast

[Thevoiceofreason]

Facts here, is the phone in his name ? Does he own a phone in his name ? Bank records in his name = handed to hrnsw, Cool the Easter bunny is coming carnt wait, is he coming to bankstown or Macau ?

I was trying to work out your interest in Macau ... but I understand now its the Casino capital of the world apparently, so maybe you are off there to have a punt now you are sick of HRNSW.

It is a partly christian society so Easter Bunny might visit there as well..... perhaps you can catch up with him if you time your visit right.

[Thevoiceofreason]

I cant see why ANYONE would EVER hand their personal bank records in to HRNSW.....Imagine the 'little people' that would be snooping around the offices looking at your personal information!!! I feel sorry for anyone who has had their privacy invaded like that. Would you like some nobody like Saunders snooping around your financial records??

If I had a licence I would understand I have to abide by the rules like it or not.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Have a punt on the trots in NSW??? Please....I wouldn't do it with your money!
There used to be no positive swabs because all the stewards were on the take, now there is 5 a week!!
The empire is rotten to the core.....starting at the VERY top!!

That is the one good thing to come from the swabbing scandal a lot more horses being tested for TCO2 across the state.

As I have said many times everyone wants integrity no one wants to pay for it.

[Dmoore]

I was thinking more like Boldenone, arsenic, methamphetamines etc etc etc!
TC02 Is for the apes and all the smart trainers have a blocker for it

[Airds]

Happy to pay for integrity any day, even happy to drop the prize money per race by$500 and have more horses swabbed per race, I have no problems with paying for integrity at all, but it needs to be done properly not only in swabbing but the stewards, hrnsw staff at all levels, the hrnsw vet,etc.

[Dmoore]

Happy to pay for integrity any day, even happy to drop the prize money per race by$500 and have more horses swabbed per race, I have no problems with paying for integrity at all, but it needs to be done properly not only in swabbing but the stewards, hrnsw staff at all levels, the hrnsw vet,etc.

Agreed! But the damage is already done! Just when harness racing was recovering from Nabeur and Gleeson etc along comes this!! Game over

[Thevoiceofreason]

Happy to pay for integrity any day, even happy to drop the prize money per race by$500 and have more horses swabbed per race, I have no problems with paying for integrity at all, but it needs to be done properly not only in swabbing but the stewards, hrnsw staff at all levels, the hrnsw vet,etc.

Sometimes you argue against yourself,I actually agree more money should go to integrity but in Harness in NSW it has been difficult to get the industry to see it that way.

Even when it was hinted at at the start of this scandal that more money would be spent on swabbing it was bagged by the states leading trainer in an article in a Sydney newspaper.

Recently HRNSW have at significant cost added a regulatory vet with over 30 years experience as both a clinical and regulatory vet in the racing industry to its integrity team.... common sense would tell you this has to be helping especially with the additional swabs they have been getting.

So where is the proof that it is not being done properly now, in fact all indicators are that it is, as you say more positive swabs.

The positive swabs are being found and people in the scandal are being investigated by HRNSW and the Police all be it slower than you would like.

It is clear to me at least HRNSW are now going to move after the police unless there is a guilty plea like Dean Atkinson where they sentenced first.

I am not going to bag HRNSW for being patient and I am also happy to let the appeal judge decide on the guilt or otherwise of Byrnes, because unlike you I do not take his "explanation" at face value but then again would a trotting driver tell a fib.... oh hold on HRNSW think the Sarina's have because they have been charged with just that.

[The Form Student]

The whole industry is stuffed whilst ever there is a lack of transparency from the top to the bottom...............let me give you a few thoughts........on another thread, Karloo Kix, is allowed to race pending an enquiry, but mainly due to the time taken for the B sample to be tested overseas...........Do they think that because they fly it overseas it provides integrity, and a guilt edged decision.........not really.......why don't we get our own super duper testing equipment and speed up the process for instances like this when there is an urgent need for an answer, not just routine testing........"Get This One Done Quickly".....there is a flow on effect now that Karloo Kix is allowed to race...............all contributor's to this thread that have made comments about Boldenone have said that it remains in the horses system for months.......so if the horse tested positive previously, you would think it would be tested now prior to it being allowed to race.........there is no mention of it.......maybe Barry Lew has threatened HRNSW that they are depriving him of earning an income and "Lew will Sue" if not allowed to race...........if the horse now wins a race and is later found guilty of the original test..........some other poor owner will miss the opportunity to stand on the victory podium!........it is time for the racing minister to get off his arse and take control of this total mess!

There is a story in today's Daily Telegraph about the appalling coverage of Menangle's Oaks meeting last saturday night.......I think they were hinting at Sky Channel.....promoting the Cranbourne Cup of $25,000 over Menangle's two $200,000 races........perhaps it has something to do with Adam Hamilton being from Victoria and the connections he has to Vic! But the Telegraph should also look at itself and it's journalist's regarding the absolutely disgraceful coverage of the Inter Dominion Final, won by an outstanding horse.......yes the race was after midnight eastern state time on Saturday morning, so you would not expect Saturday's paper to have any coverage...that's OK...........Sunday's paper?...........No!.........Monday's paper?..........right again, NO!..............yet Jeff Collerson's greyhound report is in everyday!.....Harness Racing is heading for the scrap heap!
Perhaps, the best answer is to firstly not allow TCO2 thresholds at all for the time being..........or increase the penalty immediately!........so people don't take the chance, not only on the level or whether they get tested in the first place! More testing urgently........go and buy some extra freezers from Harvey Norman!
What has happened to the EPO irregularity that was mentioned recently..............another cover up or stuff up!............somebody, please wake up, before it is too late........Harness Racing has had too much bad publicity over the years.....they need to put things back on track urgently........change the rules now and change them again if required after these enquiries............let's get off this Carousel ride and go in a straight line for a change!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Triple V]

I was thinking more like Boldenone, arsenic, methamphetamines etc etc etc!
TC02 Is for the apes and all the smart trainers have a blocker for it


[VVV] A blocker for TC02 testing? Trooper, that's a complete flight of fancy. Impossible.
If you're going to take a swing at least do your homework first.

[Thevoiceofreason]

From the form student post above

"The whole industry is stuffed whilst ever there is a lack of transparency from the top to the bottom...............let me give you a few thoughts........on another thread, Karloo Kix, is allowed to race pending an enquiry, but mainly due to the time taken for the B sample to be tested overseas...........Do they think that because they fly it overseas it provides integrity, and a guilt edged decision.........not really.......why don't we get our own super duper testing equipment and speed up the process for instances like this when there is an urgent need for an answer, not just routine testing........"Get This One Done Quickly".....there is a flow on effect now that Karloo Kix is allowed to race...............all contributor's to this thread that have made comments about Boldenone have said that it remains in the horses system for months.......so if the horse tested positive previously, you would think it would be tested now prior to it being allowed to race.........there is no mention of it.......maybe Barry Lew has threatened HRNSW that they are depriving him of earning an income and "Lew will Sue" if not allowed to race...........if the horse now wins a race and is later found guilty of the original test..........some other poor owner will miss the opportunity to stand on the victory podium!........it is time for the racing minister to get off his arse and take control of this total mess!"

Confirmatory Analysis of any swab can only be completed by an independent recognized Racing Laboratory the decision by HRNSW to use Hong Kong on the important cases should be applauded, the HKJC laboratory is considered within the world wide community of Racing Labs as the world leader how any organisation can be criticized for using the best available is beyond my thinking.

I actually think if he was asked the racing minister would be very happy that HRNSW have taken such a professional approach.

In this case my understanding is that two horses tested positive to BOLDENONE on the same night at the same meeting, this after there have no BOLDENONE positives for years. These are circumstances that require proper investigation and that is what HRNSW are clearly doing.

The media release posted below from Feb 15th shows the report from the HKJC lab has already been received. The new testing is clearly in addition to that.


Positive swab for Barry Lew
Harness Racing NSW have received a report from the Australian Racing Forensic Laboratory (ARFL) that boldenone, at a level greater than 15 micrograms per litre in urine, has been detected in a post race urine sample taken from KARLOO KIX following its win in the KOFM PACE (2030metres) run at Newcastle on 9 December 2011.
The “B” sample and the control were sent to the Hong Kong Jockey Club Racing Laboratory (HKJC) for confirmation, and the HKJC has today confirm the presence of boldenone in the post race urine sample taken from KARLOO KIX on 9 December 2011.
Trainer Mr Barry Lew has been advised of these findings. An inquiry will be conducted at a time and date to be fixed.
Acting under the provisions of Australian Harness Racing Rule 183 (A), KARLOO KIX has been stood down until further notice.
Australian Harness Racing Rule 188A (2) (i) states:
(1) The following substances when present at or below the levels set out are expected from the provisions of sub rule 1:
(i) Boldenone in male horses other than geldings, (including both free boldenone and boldenone liberated from its conjugates) at a mass concentration of 15 micrograms per litre in urine.


So many people get on here and shout "HRNSW DO A BETTER JOB " and then when they try to improve what they do by using the industry best you bag them for it.

Talk about not being able to win, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

I would not want Sam or Reid's job for a million a year it would not be worth the angst.

[The Form Student]

As I said, we need faster turnaround times.........fix this problem!...........I am also not criticising what they have done........but we are all left in abeyance while this slow process drags on.........Why don't we have the equipment the HKJC has?............this is a multi billion dollar industry in Aust too! Get the TAB to spend some of the money they are not providing to harness racing from fixed price gambling for the integrity of the racing industry!.....

Let's make the TCO2 tolerance to ZERO for the time being, I also said they should go and buy some more freezers form Harvey Norman.......so they can stock up on swabs until they can process them!..........These would be some "positive" moves to prove they are serious in fixing things up...........You say you would not want Sam or the "Colonels" job for millions a year..............Well let them stand aside and get someone who is going to formulate a Plan for the industries future, but put things back on track immediately.............maybe it is time for a heavy handed approach to bring things back to order.............the other deficiency in their operation is they do not advise in full, the circumstance for decisions that are made............they don't advise upfront the concentration level of contaminants found in swabs, they only provide limited information, which makes you keep guessing...........I hope they read this, because they can continue to think they are doing the right thing, and that we only need to be fed a few scraps of info from time to time.............so be it!............if things continue as is............we will be tied up in knots with no direction for the next 10 years, and wonder why the sport has gone down the drain!

Now back to the Boldenone enquiry...........this was detected on 9th December, 2011.......................now 3 months since the incident!............the HKJC confrimed on 13th February 2012 that the "B" sample was also positive...............so what is being done since???????????
See stewards report below;

Harness Racing NSW have received a report from the Australian Racing Forensic Laboratory (ARFL) that boldenone, at a level greater than 15 micrograms per litre in urine, has been detected in a post race urine sample taken from MACH WIPER following its win in the NXFM Newcastle Cup (2550 metres) run at Newcastle on 9 December 2011.
The “B” sample and the control were sent to the Hong Kong Jockey Club Racing Laboratory (HKJC) for confirmation, and the HKJC has today confirm the presence of boldenone in the post race urine sample taken from MACH WIPER on 9 December 2011.Trainer Mr Luke McCarthy has been advised of these findings. An inquiry will be conducted at a time and date to be fixed.Acting under the provisions of Australian Harness Racing Rule 183 (A), MACH WIPER has been stood down until further notice.
Australian Harness Racing Rule 188A. (2) states:
The following substances when present at or below the levels set out are excepted from the provisions of subrule (1):
(i) Boldenone in male horses other than geldings, (including both free boldenone and boldenone liberated from its conjugates) at a mass concentration of 15 micrograms per litre in urine.

To be honest, there is no direction from HRNSW on anything........please give me a glimmer of hope!

[Thevoiceofreason]

Form Student

With the greatest of respect you are on the wrong boat here over a number of issues.

Swabbing positives with exception of TC02 take about 4 weeks to confirm no matter which lab in the world does it, so if you do the maths about 4 weeks for the Australian test from the date of the race allow some time to arrange transport another 4 weeks for the confirmatory from HK and we are at about the date HK confirmed so very much within the best time frame you could expect. Your wish for a faster turn around time is simply not viable with current technology.


In relation to the threshold level for TCO2 , as it is naturally occurring in every horse, a level that is over what may naturally occur has to be set, this level is constant across all racing countries and codes so firstly to be set at zero is not possible because no horse has zero in its system.

The current threshold has changed a couple of times over the years as more and more scientific data has become available the more tests that are done world wide each year continue to shed more light on the subject, however as I understand the accepted normal range in a horse has actually got higher caused in part by more and more horses being fed vet supplements that contain citrates that actually boost the TCO2 level, this is one of the issues that stops it being black and white.

The current level is set so that to achieve it, it is considered the horse has to have been drenched close to race time which in all codes is against the rules.

By way of comparison I have looked at the two most recent positive swab case conducted by Racing NSW stewards

Race Date 17 July 2011 Inquiry 7 October 2011
Race Date 25 July 2011 Inquiry 14 October 2011

It is about the same time frame as you can see.

[tiny]

For Karoo kick to be allowed to return to racing it must have returned a clean swab to get this approved. Other wise the horse can be presented at the races again to return a second positive and knowing what we know about boldenone it is highly likely to be the case.

I still think some type of horrible mistake has been made here.

[doesnotlikenarcs inc.]

Daryl, sorry Tiny, what do you base your assumption on? Do you understand the process, have you spoken to any offcialdom???You seem to know alot, I am presuming you are in the know...

[The Form Student]

Form Student

With the greatest of respect you are on the wrong boat here over a number of issues.

Swabbing positives with exception of TC02 take about 4 weeks to confirm no matter which lab in the world does it, so if you do the maths about 4 weeks for the Australian test from the date of the race allow some time to arrange transport another 4 weeks for the confirmatory from HK and we are at about the date HK confirmed so very much within the best time frame you could expect. Your wish for a faster turn around time is simply not viable with current technology.


In relation to the threshold level for TCO2 , as it is naturally occurring in every horse, a level that is over what may naturally occur has to be set, this level is constant across all racing countries and codes so firstly to be set at zero is not possible because no horse has zero in its system.

The current threshold has changed a couple of times over the years as more and more scientific data has become available the more tests that are done world wide each year continue to shed more light on the subject, however as I understand the accepted normal range in a horse has actually got higher caused in part by more and more horses being fed vet supplements that contain citrates that actually boost the TCO2 level, this is one of the issues that stops it being black and white.

The current level is set so that to achieve it, it is considered the horse has to have been drenched close to race time which in all codes is against the rules.

By way of comparison I have looked at the two most recent positive swab case conducted by Racing NSW stewards

Race Date 17 July 2011 Inquiry 7 October 2011
Race Date 25 July 2011 Inquiry 14 October 2011

It is about the same time frame as you can see.

Sorry, I meant to set the tolerance level to zero above the threshold and put all on notice their will be higher penalties from now on, including suspension plus fines......especially for repeat offenders!
HRNSW needs to provide more detail about the decisions it makes..........you really don't know what they are doing.........at least at the gallops the chief steward will get on the radio or Sky and explain the decisions.........I know Harness Racing doesn't have that kind of exposure, but they can at least decisions in more detail. The setewrds reports from the gallops are in the paper the next day...........stewards reports in NSW are much slower than in the other states going onto the AHR site, and can take several days!
They need a shake-up in all areas, what they have existed on doing as their routine in the past is over.........clean up all areas of your operation so that the public and participants have faith that HRNSW is a "world class" operation!!!!!!

[doesnotlikenarcs inc.]

http://www.trotstv.com.au/?id=3245

things like this you after TFS.....they said these are going to be more regular, they are on trotstv.com.au.....

[Thevoiceofreason]

Sorry, I meant to set the tolerance level to zero above the threshold and put all on notice their will be higher penalties from now on, including suspension plus fines......especially for repeat offenders!
HRNSW needs to provide more detail about the decisions it makes..........you really don't know what they are doing.........at least at the gallops the chief steward will get on the radio or Sky and explain the decisions.........I know Harness Racing doesn't have that kind of exposure, but they can at least decisions in more detail. The setewrds reports from the gallops are in the paper the next day...........stewards reports in NSW are much slower than in the other states going onto the AHR site, and can take several days!
They need a shake-up in all areas, what they have existed on doing as their routine in the past is over.........clean up all areas of your operation so that the public and participants have faith that HRNSW is a "world class" operation!!!!!!

The fact that TCO2 is naturally occurring is why it is set at its current level to lower it would be not be possible as you would be drifting into naturally occurring levels. and there is already zero tolerance above this level.

In relation to penalties the industry is in a way tied to what has already happened you can not just start giving people two years for something others get six months for you would lose on appeal as soon as the case opened, as in any law situation precedents are an important factor.

From reading the stewards reports on both codes they seem to provide about the same amount of information but I take your point about lack of exposure.

To be honest you need to feel for the Harness Stewards in relation to their day to day reports apart from the fact they are already massively understaffed at meetings their gallops counterparts have a shorthand writer to type the stewards reports at all major city and provincial meetings, most of the Harness stewards type their own the next day or sometimes the day after or the day after that, depending on where they last worked.

Let me provide an example from just last week

C Paul Chief Steward Bankstown
C Paul Chief Steward Bathurst
C Paul Chief Steward Penrith
C Paul Steward Menangle

Remember he has to travel to all these meetings and home, prepare for the next meeting, He is not the only one in this boat, I am just using this as an example.