Glenn Douglas and Ellen Tormey charged

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=40504

This is a Biggie

The horse involved The Boss Man was a late scratching from a heat of the Trotters Interdominion

If found guilty of these charges I never want to hear/read again what a good bloke he is, a mentor etc etc

This was not even his horse and the illegal action is alleged to have occurred on one of our Big nights

If such outlandish behavior is proven one would have serious trouble believing none of the winners of this former premiership trainer were ever milkshaked


Glenn Douglas was involved in one of the most unsavory things to have occurred at a harness track (and afterwards) for which he got a mere 6mths

He has been 'flying' lately and now this comes to light!

[Messenger]

He has been 'flying' lately and now this comes to light!

I hope this has not been a case of making hay while the sun shines

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=40517

Stewards advise that in accordance with the ‘HRV Elevated TC02 Levels Policy’ Kotare Mahdi NZ will be subject to the provisions of the policy for its engagement in Race 5 at the Tabcorp Park Melton race meeting on 8 June 2019.

[Messenger]

The pair are teaming up again in the $25k North Region final at Mildura
What chance a pre-swab?

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ML060619#MLC06061904

[Messenger]

Yep they got a pre-race swab
6 days into June and the stable has 2 trebles and a Metro double

[Messenger]

Another 2 Metro winners tonight for GD
We need to expedite these charges as the stable is building some huge holiday spending money

[Messenger]

Another Douglas horse subject to the HRV Elevated TC02 Levels Policy

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=40878

The policy states:

Results of blood samples consistently reveal elevated TCO2 levels, however they fall
just below the threshold and therefore no action can be taken. This indicates that
trainers are administering alkalinising agents on raceday

As a result the HRV Stewards believe that by introducing the below requirement it
will act as a deterrent to those trainers who are administering alkalinising agents on
raceday.


A link to the pdf this is a quote from, can be found in the earlier link I provided

So, like Kotare Mahdi, the stewards suspect his other horse The Cobblers Piece

It would seem that we really do need to expedite the charges against him

A poster suggested to me, what with HRV doing virtually no PRS and yet they caught Tabone and 2 Douglas horses now have to report early/stay late,
the question is: Are they targetting the right people or missing many others?

[Messenger]

Ellen again

It is alleged that the horse ‘Fremarksgonzo’ was presented to race at Mildura on 13 April 2019 by Ms Tormey, whilst not free of alkalinising agents

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=40928

[Messenger]

No surprise, Douglas's Elegant Jewel in tonight, now subject to the Elevated TCO2 Levels Policy along with The Cobblers Piece again - yesterday

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=41031

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=41030

[Messenger]

Glenn Douglas wins the first at Melton and Rob's interview begins with
"It gives me great pleasure to catch up with Glenn Douglas ..."

I know you are just doing your job Rob but It does not give many of us pleasure because of what he has been found guilty of in the past and what he is charged with right now and yet he is allowed to win race after race

Douglas is just one but we have to stop this acceptance of wrongdoers
HRV - it is no good pretending they are good blokes for the media facade we are putting up - just clean it up quickly and save us all the embarrassment

[Showgrounds]

Glenn Douglas wins the first at Melton and Rob's interview begins with
"It gives me great pleasure to catch up with Glenn Douglas ..."

I know you are just doing your job Rob but It does not give many of us pleasure because of what he has been found guilty of in the past and what he is charged with right now and yet he is allowed to win race after race

Douglas is just one but we have to stop this acceptance of wrongdoers
HRV - it is no good pretending they are good blokes for the media facade we are putting up - just clean it up quickly and save us all the embarrassment

Integrity matters, they say. Pity HRV seems to just "say" rather than do! Every day this rubbish is allowed to continue is just another nail in the coffin.

[Messenger]

And another - Life Is Simply Not Fair (to the honest blokes)

[Messenger]

The Elevated TCO2 Levels List has 5 horses on the list

https://www.thetrots.com.au/for-participants/rules/elevated-tco2-levels-list/

4 out of 5 are Glenn Douglas horses

A reminder of what this policy states:

Results of blood samples consistently reveal elevated TCO2 levels, however they fall
just below the threshold and therefore no action can be taken. This indicates that
trainers are administering alkalinising agents on raceday

As a result the HRV Stewards believe that by introducing the below requirement it
will act as a deterrent to those trainers who are administering alkalinising agents on
raceday.

What is being done to expedite the serious charges he is facing so that this fiasco does not continue !!!!

[gutwagon]

I would say it's been put in the "Too hard basket".

[Mytwobobsworth]

Would love to know if there has been a drop off in performance of the particular horses when the race under these restrictions.

[Messenger]

I suppose we could make our own subjective survey John
We can probably track the performance that put each horse on the list - the run prior to the date they were added to the list, maybe depending on the speed of results from tests and checking that the horse was swabbed that run (although they started swabbing G Douglas runners with most of their 3 or so random swabs each meet
Then watch the runs since

[Messenger]

I just started with The Cobblers Piece - he was swabbed in the 3 races before going on the list for Bendigo July 19 but you would have to say that for the July 19 run he did not seem to drop off as he was only beaten 4m and they went 1.54.7
He was fence all the way - I might watch it tomorrow

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN190719#BNC19071902

[Messenger]

Elegant Jewel had been racing well before being placed on the list 1-2-10. The 10 was 'jumped object'. Unlike the others he had not been getting Pre Race Swabs prior to being placed on the list. The Winning swab may have been what put him on the list. Just guessing obviously with all of this. He continued to race well with a 2nd and 4th while on the list

All 4 horses were swabbed after wins between June 28 and July 4

When you consider how few horses get PRS it is significant how many of them went to G Douglas horses
The Cobblers Piece, Pocket Thedeal and Ozzie Major had been Pre Race Swabbed in most of their races in the month leading up to being put on the list so they were both virtually already on the list/under examination and so if it wasn't any of these swabs that put them on the list, it could have been the winning post race swabs they had the month before. Once again just guessing obviously

If it was the swabs after the 4 wins - all in the space of a week, that put them on the List, it is somewhat strange that it was 4 weeks difference between when the first and last went on the list. Mind you they were PRSing the later two anyway (maybe the stewards were trying to catch a positive :confused:)

Edit: Maybe the last paragraph does not apply. It is hard to know what the date column means - you would assume it means the first of the 3 starts that they have to comply with the requirements of being on the List. It would seem to be a rolling date as I have found the following link that states The Cobblers Piece was on the list on July 11 so maybe his 3 weeks got extended to 4. I hope it isn't another one of those things that HRV don't keep up to date

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=40878

This is the list as it reads at present

HORSE VENUE DATE
THE COBBLERS PIECE BENDIGO 19 JULY 2019
ELEGANT JEWEL NZ SHEPPARTON 23 JULY 2019
SAFARI ROSE MILDURA 24 JULY 2019
POCKET THE DEAL NZ TABCORP PARK MELTON 10 AUGUST 2019
OZZIE MAJOR SHEPPARTON 13 AUGUST 2019

[Messenger]

I have sought clarification from the stewards as to what the date on the list means Confirmed it was restarted
Cobblers would definitely seem to have been on the List for 4 weeks not 3 as the news link above states July 11 Swan Hill
He was PRS at Bendigo his next start
The stewards reports for the next 2 specifically mention complying

It would have been good if the July 11 Report had mentioned more than just PRS (you would think they should)
as it would have been interesting - Douglas and the stewards would have had to be at Swan Hill at 4.30 (for the 6.30 meeting) as Cobblers was in the 8.30 and being on the list requires 4 hours before (or 3 hours after but that would show as post)

[Messenger]

I would say it's been put in the "Too hard basket".

Chairman of Stewards, Brett Day has explained:

The Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) Racing Appeals and Disciplinary (RAD) Board is an independent Board established under the Racing Act to determine appeals and charges made against persons for serious offences.

Due to the independence the HRV Stewards have no control over when the hearing is held. Ultimately it is a matter for the RAD Board to schedule dates taking into account the availability of RAD Board members, legal representatives, witnesses etc.

The matter is due to be heard in late September.

[Mytwobobsworth]

Not trying to stick up for the bloke but no drop off in performance shows that either the system doesn’t work or there is nothing untoward going.
Nothing wrong with being close to the edge, you are either breaking the rules or you are not.
Seems like a waste of resources and $$$ with stewards and stable reps having to be on course for hours longer than necessary.

[Messenger]

I see your point John, mind you I think Kotare Mahdi was the first of his to find its way onto the list after winning in town and after the serious charges of tubing someone else's horse on Interdom day, he started winning left right and centre BUT none of the Listed horses have won since being listed (after winning just before listing). Maybe that constitutes a drop off?
The price of integrity is an interesting question.
We are potentially talking about tens of thousands of dollars (that is prizemoney alone) possibly going to the wrong people. This trainer was the state's premier trainer for 5 seasons in a row
I know I have brought it up several times but the fact that this stable did not report a horse dying on course then buried it in an asbestos pit to inhibit a post mortem then only got 6 months - so nearly had me lose interest in harness

I am planning a new season resolution to make sure 9 out every 10 posts are positive stories :)

[Mytwobobsworth]

I think that is a different topic all together and one that has been flogged to death on here in regards to being able to stand down trainers. Surely the right legal team can come up with some water tight terminology that can allow this to be implemented. At the moment a couple of stables appear to be almost taking the mickey out of the industry as with the charges hanging over their head there is really no deterrent to flaunting the rules as when these cases are heard they are finished. Sorry “if” found guilty.

[Messenger]

John, you say there is really no deterrent of flaunting the rules.
Listing a horse is intended to be a deterrent - they use the word in fact

Results of blood samples consistently reveal elevated TCO2 levels, however they fall
just below the threshold and therefore no action can be taken. This indicates that
trainers are administering alkalinising agents on raceday

As a result the HRV Stewards believe that by introducing the below requirement it
will act as a deterrent to those trainers who are administering alkalinising agents on
raceday.

Earlier you said that there is nothing wrong with being close to the edge.
As I understand it - being close to the edge in a post race swab can indicate that you could have been Over if it had been a Pre Race Swab or a Post Race taken much later and therefore these are the requirements of horses placed on the list

[Mytwobobsworth]

Wasn’t meaning a deterrent in that manner.
Was meaning in the grand scheme of things with the serious charges hanging over some stables does it really matter to them if the get a little bi carb wack or something similar.
Not just Douglas but other stables as well if more serious charges(race fixing etc) are proven they are pretty much finished in this industry so if they pick up some more minor offences in the meantime won’t really effect them. So they potentially are just making hay while the sun shines in the time they have left, getting some dollars in the bank before they are off stacking shelves at the supermarket.

[Messenger]

But let's not forget that although theoretically, milkshakes battle fatigue by preventing the build-up of lactic acid in muscles, they also are believed to help mask illegal drugs in post-race testing.

[hugdon]

9/10 Kev?�� I lebieve ya ��

[Messenger]

Believe Jim - there are plenty of threads I would rather post in

[Messenger]

Chairman of Stewards, Brett Day has explained:

The Harness Racing Victoria (HRV) Racing Appeals and Disciplinary (RAD) Board is an independent Board established under the Racing Act to determine appeals and charges made against persons for serious offences.

Due to the independence the HRV Stewards have no control over when the hearing is held. Ultimately it is a matter for the RAD Board to schedule dates taking into account the availability of RAD Board members, legal representatives, witnesses etc.

The matter is due to be heard in late September.



Did I miss it?
It is now mid October (so much for late September)

[Messenger]

December tomorrow and another Metro winner tonight for Glenn Douglas despite being charged with offences in relation to last year's Interdominion
Integrity RAD board?

[Messenger]

Another metro double to G.Douglas :rolleyes:

[Messenger]

Both found guilty

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=42240

We now await penalty - will it be commensurate with two people trying to corrupt the biggest Trots race of the year?

[Messenger]

If wife Julie Douglas is simply allowed to take over training the team and Glenn Douglas allowed to continue driving

INTEGRITY in our industry will be non-existent

[gutwagon]

My guess is 6 months for Ellen and 2 years for Glenn. Personally I would give Glenn 10 years.

[Messenger]

I don't know Rick, he only got 6mths instead of 10yrs for this one

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/harness-racing-owner-and-trainer-banned-from-sport-for-six-months-after-investigation-into-sudden-death-of-horse-talk-to-the-hand/news-story/bd2ffb4128ca2e379d4f174711618498

[Messenger]

Apparently a 48 page explanation from the RAD Board re the decision was originally put up on HRA site but fairly quickly taken down again.
Transparency?

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=42327

2yrs for Douglas
18mths for Tormey

[Showgrounds]

Karma.

[Showgrounds]

If wife Julie Douglas is simply allowed to take over training the team and Glenn Douglas allowed to continue driving

INTEGRITY in our industry will be non-existent

It appears integrity IS non-existent.

JULIE Douglas has 7 acceptors at Melton on Saturday night, 2 at Charlton Sunday and 3 at Shepparton on Christmas Eve. Those numbers suggest she is not a "hobby" trainer.

[Messenger]

Reading the 26 page transcript is enough to turn you off harness racing although it pales somewhat in comparison to Mr Asbestos's previous efforts

We find that both Ms Tormey and Mr Douglas were not honest and reliable witnesses.

Dougllas has won several premierships in the industry and been considered by some as a mentor :confused:

[Messenger]

It appears integrity IS non-existent.

JULIE Douglas has 7 acceptors at Melton on Saturday night, 2 at Charlton Sunday and 3 at Shepparton on Christmas Eve. Those numbers suggest she is not a "hobby" trainer.

The 2 have been Disqualified - am I not right in thinking that that is much harsher than suspended?

Doesn't it mean that they cannot set foot on a track or the property of a licensed person?

Does Glenn Douglas live with Julie Douglas?

I notice that already neither Douglas or Tormey can be found with a Harnessweb Licensee search

[aussiebreno]

And Tormey just transferred horse/s to her father.

[Mighty Atom]

The 2 have been Disqualified - am I not right in thinking that that is much harsher than suspended?

Doesn't it mean that they cannot set foot on a track or the property of a licensed person?

Does Glenn Douglas live with Julie Douglas?

I notice that already neither Douglas or Tormey can be found with a Harnessweb Licensee search

Great observation Kevin spot on.

[thepacingman]

The Appendix on the last two pages is interesting. Many coincidences there and makes it look like this was not a one off.

http://www.harness.org.au/news/uploads/RADB%20Tormey%20Douglas%20Summary%20Decision%20-%2019122019.pdf

[Messenger]

Apparently a 48 page explanation from the RAD Board re the decision was originally put up on HRA site but fairly quickly taken down again.
Transparency?

I have seen this original transcript and although the now edited part may be a rather explicit cover up story, it could also be possible that Julie Douglas is a separate entity

I will certainly never think of 'mending fences' in quite the same way again

[Showgrounds]

Well, that was short lived. Both appealed to VCAT today and have been granted stays of proceedings. No doubt, the horses will be back in their names as trainers by Christmas.
After reading the HRV summary, I reckon there was one misdemeanor they were not charged with - treating stewards with total contempt as if they were complete idiots! Some of the answers given to questions put by the stewards, and defendants' responsible, are shake-your-head laughable.

[Messenger]

Mind you if Douglas's 'mending fences with benefits' excuse is not a complete fabrication, you wouldn't expect his wife or father-in-law to give him anything

[Messenger]

I see Julie Douglas training and Eric Anderson owning horses driven by Glenn Douglas at Melton last night
They are very understanding wife and father-in-law IF you believe his lurid excuse for being in The Boss Man's box at Ellen Tormey's

[aussiebreno]

I see Julie Douglas training and Eric Anderson owning horses driven by Daryl Douglas at Melton last night
They are very understanding wife and father-in-law IF you believe his lurid excuse for being in The Boss Man's box at Ellen Tormey's
You would think he would have done his 'Dash'.

[gutwagon]

I see Julie Douglas training and Eric Anderson owning horses driven by Daryl Douglas at Melton last night
They are very understanding wife and father-in-law IF you believe his lurid excuse for being in The Boss Man's box at Ellen Tormey's
Think you mean Glen driving, I make the same mistake a lot.

[Messenger]

Oops thank Rick - now edited

[Showgrounds]

Noticed that Glenn Douglas trained and drove a horse (ran last) in the main race at Boort today. Julie Douglas also had runners at Boort. Interesting, I hope he keeps his stomach tube securely in his own stable in future.

[gutwagon]

You could say he should keep his tube in his pants !

[Messenger]

It is getting annoying seeing these disqualified people regularly winning at Mildura

[aussiebreno]

It is getting annoying seeing these disqualified people regularly winning at Mildura
Even the Cramps would be getting sick of it!

[Showgrounds]

Don't worry Kev, the will feature prominently in the "needy" section of my proposed Hall of Shame. Needy being devoted to the incredibly stupid rather than greedy, the majority. I'm thinking a diorama accurately meticulously depicting what the stewards saw when they walked in!

[Messenger]

Who said 'Cheats never Prosper'

Tormey drives a treble at Bendigo tonight (2 of which she also trained)
She is on a stay from an 18 month disqualification

[Showgrounds]

And Mr Hoselink trained and drove a winner as well.

Justice in the State of Victoria is in troubled times, even in harness racing.

[Messenger]

The couple steamed up for more wieners last night

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN150420

[Messenger]

VCAT has no jurisdiction in the proceeding and that it was appropriate that the application be dismissed ....... also found that it was appropriate for the stay orders made on 23 December 2019 to be set aside

BUT

On 20 May 2020, Ms Tormey and Mr Douglas both applied to VCAT to have the operation of the tribunal’s orders of 19 May 2020 stayed ...... Subsequently, VCAT Senior Member Dea ordered that the tribunal's orders of 19 May 2020 be stayed until the determination of the appeal or further order of the Tribunal or the Court on condition that the applicants file and serve any appeal by 4pm on 17 June 2020.

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=43791

[Messenger]

ps I should have added that if you want to read 14 pages about why VCAT has no jurisdiction (nothing about the offences) continue below

http://www.harness.org.au/news/uploads/Z996%202019%20&%20Z997%202019%20Tormey%20&%20Douglas%20v%20Harness%20Racing%20Victoria%20(De cision).pdf

[Messenger]

The late scratchings and driver changes at 6pm tonight for Bendigo makes one think that there has been a development in this case

[Mytwobobsworth]

The late scratchings and driver changes at 6pm tonight for Bendigo makes one think that there has been a development in this case

Apparently something to do with VCAT had to be done by 4pm today, wasn’t done in time.

[Messenger]

Apparently something to do with VCAT had to be done by 4pm today, wasn’t done in time.

Thanks John - I should read my own posts - I see I posted that in Post 60

[Messenger]

Interesting to see the 'now' trained Julie Douglas runners scratched tonight

[Messenger]

On 19 June 2020, Ms Tormey and Mr Douglas filed a notice of appeal with the Supreme Court of Victoria against the decision of VCAT made on 19 May 2020. An application for a stay of that decision pending the appeal will be heard on Wednesday 24 June 2020, however the Supreme Court has granted an interim stay of the decision pending the hearing next week.

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=44049

You would think their legal fees are building but Asbestos Anderson is supposed to be loaded

[Showgrounds]

Asbestos can absorb plenty of heat, apparently. ��

[Messenger]

"On 19 June 2020, Ms Tormey and Mr Douglas filed a notice of appeal with the Supreme Court of Victoria. On 24 June 2020 a stay of the decision of the HRV RAD Board (19 December 2019) and the orders of VCAT (19 May 2020) was granted, pending the Supreme Court of Victoria hearing the appeal on 14 August 2020."

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=44089

[Showgrounds]

Gee, if I had the dough to go to the Supreme Court I doubt I would have been so desperate for a quick that I would have to resort to tubing a horse on race day!

Gee, maybe I have just given them a line of defence!

[Messenger]

I have seen this original transcript and although the now edited part may be a rather explicit cover up story, it could also be possible that Julie Douglas is a separate entity

I will certainly never think of 'mending fences' in quite the same way again

Ellen Tormey driving for Julie Douglas in the last at Kilmore tonight :eek:

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=KI250620#KIC25062010

[Messenger]

Daryl Douglas driving for Julie Douglas at Bendigo trials last night - no matter what they are a close knit family

[gutwagon]

Daryl Douglas also driving at Maryborough trials yesterday. Coming back in time to take over from his brother ! Wonder how long he will last this time ?

[Mytwobobsworth]

Daryl Douglas also driving at Maryborough trials yesterday. Coming back in time to take over from his brother ! Wonder how long he will last this time ?


Unconfirmed but im led to believe he has had the red carpet layed out for him as well.
Apparently there is no restrictions on how many drives per trial meeting count towards getting his license back, even Chris Lang could only have 2 per meeting counted so your set number of drives takes however long to complete. They tell me all of Douglas drives count so if say he has to complete 15 or 20 trial drives he can knock them over in 2 or 3 meetings.

[Messenger]

On 8 September 2020, Justice Richards of the Supreme Court of Victoria handed down a judgment dismissing appeals by licensed trainer-driver Ellen Tormey and licensed trainer-driver Glenn Douglas against a decision of the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) .....

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=44905

[Messenger]

BUT
You might remember that
VCAT Senior Member Dea ordered that the tribunal's orders of 19 May 2020 be stayed until the determination of the appeal or further order of the Tribunal or the Court on condition that the applicants file and serve any appeal by 4pm on 17 June 2020.
see Post 60 for info about the above quote
This date was missed but their notice of appeal was only a day or 2 late and on Thursday the judge accepted their explanation for the delay so it has been ruled that their notice to appeal be accepted

We now await the appeal

[gutwagon]

And they continue to drive and train !

[Messenger]

However, unless there is a further determination by the Court of Appeal, Ms Tormey and Mr Douglas are currently disqualified persons under the Australian Harness Racing Rules.

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=45174

[Showgrounds]

Hip, hip!

[Messenger]

They're back

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=45707

:mad:

[Messenger]

Roma Pocock has given him a couple of hers to train see Mildura

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ML191120

[Messenger]

Dad John, dalliance Glenn and his misses Julie train the treble driven by Ellen tonight

Not a good look Mildura

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=ML021220

[Messenger]

5 winners from 7 drives for ET at Mildura - the only problem is that she has been DISQUALIFIED for her part as trainer in the stomach tubing of a horse in the Interdom

We know why the Douglas camp are giving her drives - because they are from the same pod

To Scott Garraway and Kate Hargreaves and all the other trainers giving her drives - Are you putting the industry first?