Vicbred Super Series 2019

[Messenger]

For Tuesday night, random draw instead of trainer split can simply end up the same although.
The Stewart stable was the only one with enough runners for it to be a serious concern
The stables with multiple runners would mostly be happy especially the Stewart stable

There are four 2yoF heats

Stewart: 1-1-1-2
Miles: 1-1-1
East: 1-1
Attard: 1-1
Shinn: 1-1
with Peter Manning the only unlucky one with his 2 fillies in the same heat


There are three 2yoC&G heats

Stewart: 1-2-1
Crossland: 1-0-2

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN180619

[gutwagon]

There is no way a random heat draw could produce those results Kevin. In the fillies every trainer got an even split, chances of that happening randomly are very slim. The big stables have been well looked after.

[Messenger]

I think they could - I might do a few shuffles of the deck in a minute

Pack of 39 with only 5 hearts to be dealt 4 ways
Pack of 30 with only 4 hearts to be dealt 3 ways

I will get back to you

[Messenger]

Rightio, I could only be bothered doing 10 deals for the 39 Fillies (a small sample I know)

For the 5 Stewart runners (the 5 hearts I left in the deck)
the 4 heats fell as follows:

1112
0131
0320
2021
1220
3200
2111
2210
0221
2201

So in my little sample 5/10 saw them with 2 heats with 2 runners, 1 heat with 1 runner and 1 heat with 0 runners
With the way it fell for HRV 1,1,1,2 popping up 2 times

For the Miles stable (the 3 two's I left in the deck)

21
21
111
111
3
111
12
12
21
111

So in my small sample
5/10 they ended up with 2 fillies in 1 heat and 1 in another
With the way it fell for HRV 1,1,1 occurring 4 times

My sample is too small but it does demonstrate that the way it fell is very possible
I don't know whether mathematically it would be the favoured way but is it not a long shot of happening

[gutwagon]

It is mathematically possible Kevin but for 6 of the 8 trainers with multiple runners to get a perfect split of runners would be huge odds. Heats should have been drawn live somewhere just for integrity purposes.


Personally I think any trainer with multiple runners should have them put into the same heat. It is much better for the industry for the prize money to be spread out across stables.

[Messenger]

From Facebook

Bendigo Harness
4 hrs ·
Members and Guests please note due to a large corporate booking at tomorrow night’s meeting their will be very limited seating available. The tuckshop downstairs will be open & a BBQ outside available for food.


That 'large corporate booking' would want to be HRV putting on something for the Vicbred owners turning up to see their 2yo!!!!!

[Bonnie]

From Facebook

Bendigo Harness
4 hrs ·
Members and Guests please note due to a large corporate booking at tomorrow night’s meeting their will be very limited seating available. The tuckshop downstairs will be open & a BBQ outside available for food.


That 'large corporate booking' would want to be HRV putting on something for the Vicbred owners turning up to see their 2yo!!!!!

You have to be joking Kev ! Nothing for the owners ! Fields for 3year olds are out for Kilmore.

[Dot]

It’s a long time since I lived in Vic but I still remember how cold it gets in winter at Kilmore. I know it gets cold elsewhere too, and yes I know it’s a week day, but with Kilmore also having its track inside the gallops track which doesn’t create the best visual spectacle either on track or via broadcast is this really the best venue and scheduling to be showcasing our best 3yos? Some how I think we are selling ourselves and our product way short if the powers that be think it is.

[Messenger]

The 3yo C&G would have to be random enough for everybody

The big Stewart stable has 9 runners in the 5 heats with the fall being
1-2-4-1-1

For the Aiken stable they drew
3-1-0-1-0

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=KI200619

[Gtrain]

From Facebook

Bendigo Harness
4 hrs ·
Members and Guests please note due to a large corporate booking at tomorrow night’s meeting their will be very limited seating available. The tuckshop downstairs will be open & a BBQ outside available for food.


That 'large corporate booking' would want to be HRV putting on something for the Vicbred owners turning up to see their 2yo!!!!!

Geez I hope Kevs right!! I’ll be starving after a 5 hour trip south!! Can’t wait!!

[Messenger]

Good luck on the track Grant because as you know, I wasn't being serious - enjoy the tuckshop (I can only think of school days LOL)

[Messenger]

I hope the Tuckshop has plenty of hot pies for those out in the cold at Bendigo because it is only 6pm and the 'feels like' temp is already down to 3 degrees

The Stewart stable won't be noticing it - they are hot, having already won the first three

[Messenger]

Total Domination - the Stewart stable wins 7/7 Vicbred 2yo heats

I don't know what to make of it

She had 9 horses v the others 57

Congratulations to Anne for qualifying 2 with a win and a second

How did Bendigo rescue what would appear to be a monumental booking blunder?

[Dot]

Phenomenal performance from the Stewart stable. Congratulations to Rick for his filly splitting the Stewart pair in the last fillies heat.

[Messenger]

The stable cannot win all the 3yo heats on Thursday as they do not have a horse in the 2nd heat of the fillies
The 3rd heat of the colts is a killer for them as it will be difficult for them to qualify 4 for the semi's

Looking for owner/part owner duplications, the only one I notice is

The Stokie group have a share in both 9 Major Delico and 12 FourBigMen in R1 Heat1 for the C&G

[Dot]

Correct on the fillies Kev but how so on the colts. Isn’t it 5 heats into 24 positions in the semis? First 4 each heat and 4 fastest 5ths?

I understand no trainer splits but I’m at a bit of a loss on no owners splits ( syndicates excepted as they may have multiple memebers who arent visible and may be shareholders in multiple horses) but for those owners whos horses are in individual ownership or in a limited ownership group I do think that is a bit rough. We may want to encourage syndications but not at the expense of individual owners I wouldn’t think. I don’t think there has been anyone/small ownership groups actually effected in the series thus far though.

[Bonnie]

Total Domination - the Stewart stable wins 7/7 Vicbred 2yo heats

I don't know what to make of it

She had 9 horses v the others 57

Congratulations to Anne for qualifying 2 with a win and a second

How did Bendigo rescue what would appear to be a monumental booking blunder?

Thanks Kev. The Tiger Army was a $16K purchase at the yearling sales , he has some happy owners . Beale Street is improving with every run. He was a yearling sale entry then fate stepped in. His paddock mate kicked him in the leg requiring 2 ops and a long recovery. We had no option but to withdraw him from the sale. I didn’t t go to the tuckshop but the free barbecue looked good. Ballarat have invited owners to their dining room at a reduced cost for the Sires heats on Friday night: best Club in Victoria!

[gutwagon]

Thanks Dot, was very happy with her effort.
So 7 wins for the Tonkin stable, 7 short priced winners. I think my idea of putting them all in one heat would have made for a much better betting card , more turnover and spread the money out to the battlers. May also stop all the best bred horses going to the one stable. All things that would help our struggling industry.

[Messenger]

Correct on the fillies Kev but how so on the colts. Isn’t it 5 heats into 24 positions in the semis? First 4 each heat and 4 fastest 5ths?

I understand no trainer splits but I’m at a bit of a loss on no owners splits ( syndicates excepted as they may have multiple memebers who arent visible and may be shareholders in multiple horses) but for those owners whos horses are in individual ownership or in a limited ownership group I do think that is a bit rough. We may want to encourage syndications but not at the expense of individual owners I wouldn’t think. I don’t think there has been anyone/small ownership groups actually effected in the series thus far though.

Right, somehow my morning brain was forgetting to multiply 12 x 2

[Gtrain]

I hope the Tuckshop has plenty of hot pies for those out in the cold at Bendigo because it is only 6pm and the 'feels like' temp is already down to 3 degrees

The Stewart stable won't be noticing it - they are hot, having already won the first three

Crazy night. My filly tried her guts out and ran second in the third race and made Treasure stick it’s neck out a bit. Super proud of her efforts and she will strip fitter for the run. While Stewart’s dominated, I think the fillies division is pretty wide open across at least 6 horses. Amazing effort from Stewart’s team, and while a lot of favourites won, there was certainly some competitive racing and competitive finishes. Certainly a night I’ll say I was proud to be a very small part of.

[Dot]

The stable cannot win all the 3yo heats on Thursday as they do not have a horse in the 2nd heat of the fillies
The 3rd heat of the colts is a killer for them as it will be difficult for them to qualify 4 for the semi's



I’m not so sure about that Kev, if Harley brings his A game on the night! 3 of the 4 are the top 3 picks for the series, and I can perhaps see the 4th one getting a cheeky run on the pegs and into the sprint lane for a qualifying spot.

Been debated before about seeding versus random and neithers perfect but in a seeded draw these top three would be spread across the heats, certainly making it more difficult for others to win a heat versus this random field allocation which will see the others in this heat up against it to run a place.

[Messenger]

Seeded v Trainer split may often be the same thing in Vic but I think there is merit in seeded because we want the best horses making finals - don't we?

[Dot]

That’s my thinking too Kev. Particularly with the colts if we are going to increase the opportunities at stud for our colonial bred prospects versus our reliance on shuttles from North America.

[Messenger]

Crazy night. My filly tried her guts out and ran second in the third race and made Treasure stick it’s neck out a bit. Super proud of her efforts and she will strip fitter for the run. While Stewart’s dominated, I think the fillies division is pretty wide open across at least 6 horses. Amazing effort from Stewart’s team, and while a lot of favourites won, there was certainly some competitive racing and competitive finishes. Certainly a night I’ll say I was proud to be a very small part of.

It was a very nice run Grant, it may come down to which of the babies is still up when the final comes around

Did you happen who had booked the place out? Did you get a feed?

[Messenger]

Looking at the barrier stats for Kilmore

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/tracks/kilmore/

It is interesting to note that 8 (SR1) has by far the worst record
No.1 is only average so I figure it is no advantage either
So be warned those who like to play the 8 as the sprint lane barrier

[Gtrain]

It was a very nice run Grant, it may come down to which of the babies is still up when the final comes around

Did you happen who had booked the place out? Did you get a feed?

While it was booked out for meals you could still get in upstairs for a beer which was good cause geez it was fresh! Club did put on a free bbq for participants there which was well recurved!! But I did get too excited after my race and forgot to eat so nothing much concerned me!!

[Dot]

Poster Boy scratched from 4yo heats at Ballarat. Hopefully nothing serious.

[Messenger]

That is disappointing
The Stewart stable weren't going to be able to win everything at Ballarat and now they have 2 heats without a runner

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BA210619

[Messenger]

If we cannot run close to time, we are going to be shafted to Sky2
Thank heavens for Trots Vision, the son-in-law, like many, does not have Sky2

[Messenger]

Stewart stable pretty much continued on their merry way with 5 wins and 2 seconds from the 7 heats they contested and 11/12 they took to chilly Kilmore qualified
It was good racing.
The colts semis should be interesting
There were some strong winning performances but I will have to do some form on Firestorm Red as I liked the way he finished in the last heat

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=KI200619

[Messenger]

On the Bendigo booking clash, Noel has emailed me that they hosted The Australian Pork Fair for the whole day - which was a golden booking for the club

[Dot]

Can only hope there were some converts to harness racing. Hope they were pork sausages being served up on the BBQ!

[Dot]

Unfortunately it is serious Dot . He has pneumonia.

Sorry to hear that Anne, hoping he makes a full recovery.

[Yabbie]

Unfortunately it is serious Dot . He has pneumonia.


Sorry to hear that Anne. Hope he recovers quickly with no ongoing issues :)

[gutwagon]

You used to get $6000 for winning a vicbred heat now it's only $5000. Shows how good our showcase event is doing, I know they pay to last now but you would think they could have increased the prize and not just taken it from the winner !



I fail to see how one stable winning 90% of the heats with short priced favourites makes for exciting or competitive racing. They need to do something to give others a chance of picking up some money and make the heats competitive. These alleged random heat draws did not work .

[Adaptor]

Can only hope there were some converts to harness racing. Hope they were pork sausages being served up on the BBQ!


And the Tote !
The 2yo Trot was sponsored by the visitors, and if you looked closely at the finish, you will see the large sponsor signs.
Non-racing income from these events is GOLD to a club.

[Messenger]

R1 Ballarat, the 1st heat of 4yo Mares saw us return to 'heat style' racing
Shining Oro was not too fussed about winning

[Messenger]

As the Sky host said "Idealsomemagic might be one to follow" after taking ground off Tam Major who ran a 26.6 last quarter in heat 2 for the C&G's. Caller Luke Humphreys might have commented too - Sky viewers would not know as they cross to the bloody dogs before Luke can finish giving the mile rate

[Messenger]

Is there anyone that doesn't think that 'David Moran on Pistol Abbey knew that stablemate Nostra Villa driven by Chris Alford would surrender the lead'?

[Galli]

*Yawn*. Pardon me...

[Messenger]

I am sure there were a couple of races you could have enjoyed Kati

[Messenger]

The Stewart stable won 4/5 they contested tonight to take it to 16/19 Vicbred heats contested

[Galli]

I am sure there were a couple of races you could have enjoyed Kati

Only one, Kevin. The one still to come (hence I'm still awake though yawning...).

[Messenger]

I was actually meaning the heats Kati, and thinking many would enjoy R5+7 (I actually enjoyed more than just those two)

[Dot]

The Stewart stable won 4/5 they contested tonight to take it to 16/19 Vicbred heats contested

And the “big guns” from the Stewart stable in the 3yo last year, Poster Boy and Ride High were absent!

[aussiebreno]

Is there anyone that doesn't think that 'David Moran on Pistol Abbey knew that stablemate Nostra Villa driven by Chris Alford would surrender the lead'?
Don't know but doesn't matter anyway because stewards deemed a few weeks ago it is ok to share tactics.


And the “big guns” from the Stewart stable in the 3yo last year, Poster Boy and Ride High were absent!
+ Maraetei the biggest gun of all !

[Messenger]

Don't know but doesn't matter anyway because stewards deemed a few weeks ago it is ok to share tactics.



Do you mean the Holloway Classic Brendan when the Stewart stable had the whole field?
The stewards did qualify their announcing the intended tactics with
"As trainer Emma Stewart has all of the six horses engaged. ..."

[Dot]

I fail to see how one stable winning 90% of the heats with short priced favourites makes for exciting or competitive racing. They need to do something to give others a chance of picking up some money and make the heats competitive. These alleged random heat draws did not work .

What do you propose Rick? I don’t see putting all horses from one stable in one heat as a viable suggestion. Changing the format and prizemoney distribution may see the spoils more widely shared. Maybe the tiered series of the New York and Ontario Sires Stakes with some Aussie variants on being able to cross over or not between series? Or perhaps 24 individual heats across the state over a period of time, winners into semi final and ineligible to contest further heats, and a max number of heats a horse can contest, higher prizemoney money for heats, less for semi and finals, and hope the Stewart stable don’t have 24 horses in each division?

I don’t think you can punish a stable and its owners as you suggest Ric just for being too successful in the series as it stands, but Adminstrators can redesign the series if it’s not achieving the outcomes they are seeking.

[Messenger]

I am worried people will take this the wrong way but here goes

Racing survived the Weir suspension as we would a Stewart suspension BUT we don't want that
Gallops people are in inredulous of the Stewart success rate
It is fairly unbelievable
In the interest of the industry we need to show that they are clean
There has to be a placement for some considerable time that proves they are beyond reproach and deserve to be acclaimed

The reason I post this now, is that we have people suggesting we need to change the system, let's make sure the current system is broke first and get some clear air

Australia emraces the Tall Poppy Syndrome, there is no point pretending we don't so let's counter it with some definitive proof

[gutwagon]

Dot, I think putting all same stable runners in one heat would mostly solve the problem. Their best 5 or so horses would still make the final and they would probably win the final still. They would just get much less prize money on the way to the final, leaving a lot more for other stables and providing more competitive racing and more turnover generated.

If owners don't want their horse in the heat with all their stablemates they could choose a smaller stable from the beginning, again that would help the industry.

Having one huge stable dominate any code of racing just kills the interest of the public and other competitors. It drives people away from the sport.

[Dot]

Rick I’d certainly prefer not to see a dominating stable either but you don’t think the all the horses from the one stable, in the one heat solution you propose isn’t readily circumvented? Large stables operate with a number of staff, some family, some employees, just have a number of them obtain a trainers licence and switch the horses into ostensibly someone else name. The way the Menangle training centre operates, and I believe similar is proposed for Melton, means trainers do not have to have seperate unique training/stabling facilities and the same would apply to training on a private property.

Could use the ”Aquanita” style of management, no not the pre race drenches and top ups, the trainers train the horses and all administration, bills out, bills paid, supplies ordered wages etc, is done for them by an Office Adminstrator. Horses have seperate trainers now so won’t be in the same heat, there is now some confusion for industry officials and some punters at least as to who is the bone fide trainer, and the “large stable” can still dominate the races, but are now less likely to win a premiership of course as the wins are shared around a number of “trainers”.

[aussiebreno]

Dot, I think putting all same stable runners in one heat would mostly solve the problem. Their best 5 or so horses would still make the final and they would probably win the final still. They would just get much less prize money on the way to the final, leaving a lot more for other stables and providing more competitive racing and more turnover generated.

If owners don't want their horse in the heat with all their stablemates they could choose a smaller stable from the beginning, again that would help the industry.

Having one huge stable dominate any code of racing just kills the interest of the public and other competitors. It drives people away from the sport.

Nah. Don't like it. What if your nice honest 3C1 draws a heat against Centenario, Hurricane Harley, Hardhitter, Demon Delight etc while another 3C1 of similar ability gets a gift run through because draws weak heat.

[Dot]

And not to mention if that trainer, who ordinarily is considered to be a small trainer, just happens to have, for the first time in their career, two nice 3C1s and they both have to be in against those aforementioned horses because the policy is all a trainers horses have to be in the same heat!

( think we just had something like that happen under the no trainer splits conditions )

[Messenger]

I had an email suggesting it isn't tall poppy syndrome that makes people sceptical of the Stewart/Tonkin success but rather the memory of Tonkin's suspension over blue magic.
I don't think many remember this, especially punters that are primarily gallops followers, I still think it is the mathematical implausibility of their success rate or tall poppy

[gutwagon]

The series seemed to work a lot better when there were a lot more heats spread over several months, each country club would have some heats. If a horse had some bad luck in one heat it had a chance to run in another. Why was it changed ?

Kevin, you know the old saying "If it's too good to be true ...."

[gutwagon]

Just looking at the fields for the semi finals and Tonkin/Stewarts would be very happy as they got fairly even splits in everything except the 4yo mares semis. Well with at least 2 of their runners in the races it will make for better betting.

[Galli]

Confidence booster: Get ALL horses to the track 4 hours before their race.

[Dot]

Oh I think that could be way more interesting if the requirement was to get half a stables representatives to the track 4 hours before the first race.

[Bonnie]

Confidence booster: Get ALL horses to the track 4 hours before their race.

The retention barn works well in NSW and horses are accommodated in the barn . Some horses are already there well before their races so stewards could test earlier if required. However, we must consider horse welfare, it is unfair to expect them to stand at the races hours before their race.

[Messenger]

Just looking at the fields for the semi finals and Tonkin/Stewarts would be very happy as they got fairly even splits in everything except the 4yo mares semis. Well with at least 2 of their runners in the races it will make for better betting.

And the R11 the 1st semi for the 3yoF is much stronger than R12 the 2nd semi which will see Kualoa and some lesser fillies make the final

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX290619

[Galli]

we must consider horse welfare, it is unfair to expect them to stand at the races hours before their race.

They have to do that quite often anyway - as soon as you take 2 or more horses to the races. I wish someone thought about horse welfare (let alone the connections'!) when we took two to Kilmore in winter. One in the race 1, the other in the last 3.5 hours later!!!! We sat at the stalls (can't leave the horses unattended!) and ran with them in the parade ring every now and again. +4, rain and wind. Never again...

Horses stand most of the day anyway (and what's keeping the stable staff from walking them around?). If we are serious about improving the integrity, then let's get serious! Getting them to the track early is cheaper than providing security to all the stables.

[Bonnie]

You can’t predict what race your horse will be in when you enter and with multiple runners your experience is not a one off Kati. Usually all runners from one stable travel to the races in one float/ truck.If the horse in the first is required 4 hours before their race ( not 1 hour as required now ) it extends the wait time for the horse in the last by 3 hours. Add travel time and it can be another 2 hours. Horses might stand all day Kati but not in the one spot. Integrity should not be judged on the cheapest option but the most effective.

[Galli]

Integrity should not be judged on the cheapest option but the most effective.

Are you offering to pay for it then? Or should we take that money off the total stakes of VicBred Series? Racing for ribbons next? I'm sorry, but something's got to give...

[Dot]

Obviously we must be mindful of horse welfare, and for the welfare of the people charged with their care during the course of a long long day. Box stalls on course would obviously be desirable but aren’t available at Melton. The yearlings when the premier trotting sale was on managed to stand in the tie up stalls for for virtually all day. Granted some racehorses may find it more difficult but that I guess is part of the difference between being a racehorse and being a good racehorse.

As a one off, or on infrequent occasions such as features, it would be possible to make the stalls more hospitable to horses with comfort flooring mats, or perhaps shavings or straw. And whilst it would be an additional responsibility for stable staff they could be walked.

Granted they don’t race immediately on arrival but what is the length of a racehorses journey from western Victoria to Menangles environs by truck, where they are confined to a stall for a journey? I don’t think any of the transports stops and unloads on the journey anymore. Certainly one of the horse transport companies no longer stops and does a 24 hour leg between the quarantine station in Kalgoolie and their base near Adelaide whilst the horses stand in their stalls.

At the barest minimum the horses we export to North America will stand in stalls for 24 hours as they undertake the journey. Those that go via the polar route, as many now do, to disembark on the East Coast will be a minimum of 36 hours in the narrow confines of the shipping crate and longer still if there are unexpected delays on the journey. No one in Australia seems to quote “animal welfare” as a reason not to sell them for export to the US.

So whilst standing them in the stalls at Melton for long periods during a race meeting may not be ideal I don’t think as an industry we can say solely on the basis of animal welfare that it can’t be done. Some shipping in from the further reaches of the state in an early race, with a stable mate in the last, and then shipping home again that night are already standing in a confined space for extended periods of time.

[Messenger]

Centenario has been scratched from his semi

[Dot]

Shame for him to go amiss, won’t be back until 4yo season I’ve read

[Messenger]

Andy Gath's Vicbred semi finalist Night Spirit, R9 No.13 tonight, won at Cranbourne last night - an unusual preparation for a 2yo nowadays

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=CR280619#CRC28061909

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX290619#MXM29061905

The emergency is already getting a start in that semi after finishing 9/9 in his heat - we hardly needed heats and semi's

[Messenger]

9 semis down and the Stewart stable has won 6 and come second in the other 3

Barrier draws have started and they have won there too
Drawing 1&2 in the 2yo fillies and the 3yo boys

[Messenger]

Congratulations to our finalists, breeder Rick, Anne with 2 winners and Grant (em) who could still have a runner

[Gtrain]

Congratulations to our finalists, breeder Rick, Anne with 2 winners and Grant (em) who could still have a runner

Thanks Kevin. Just wasn’t my night!!

[gutwagon]

Thanks Kevin, another honest effort from her. Will need a miracle in the final with the 12 barrier and the strength of the field.

[Messenger]

If you are looking for the fields for the finals you will find them in the blog from semi night

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/live-blog-vicbred-super-series-semi-finals/

[Messenger]

The trotters spread the money around - six different stables for the six $100k finals
You have to love that

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX050719

[Messenger]

Only 3 of 11 favourites won tonight and one of them was a healthy $2.90 pop, 6 started odds on and only 2 of them were successful
Andy Gath was the only trainer to get a double

[gutwagon]

The trotters spread the money around - six different stables for the six $100k finals
You have to love that

http://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX050719
I would have said that the night wasn't ruined by one dominant stable, but you are much more diplomatic than I Kevin.

[Messenger]

Imagine if on a day of six Gp1 races at Flemington (we're not talking any old Gp1's)
Bart Cummings trained a First 4
3 Trifectas
a Quinella
and in the one he didn't win he got 2nd and 3rd

[Dot]

I think you mean Gai Waterhouse don’t you Kev?

[Messenger]

No, Gai doesn't quite have the legendary status that Bart has

[Messenger]

We do have to remember that the prizemoney is being shared between various owners (congratulations Anne)
but the Stewart stable won $535,600 of the $780,000 on offer
It did however involve a lot more work than winning the equivalent in one race with one horse eg an Inter

[Bonnie]

Thanks Kev. Pistol Abbey is an amazing mare ; just gets the job done in a very professional way. The enquiries are coming from US buyers , my head says Yes but emotionally my heart says No. She is only 4 but her racing career is very limited and I certainly don’t need another broodmare. There is one Open Mares race next week and no more until the Breeders Crown 4 year old mares on August 24 ( not even a lead up race for that ). I will not break her heart racing against the boys at the top level. Certainly there are early issues with the NR but programming leaves a lot to be desired. If you are a breeder a mare with a good track record adds value but it’s frustrating when the opportunities are not provided equally to both sexes.

[gutwagon]

Anne, I think most of the problems are caused by the lack of horse numbers at present. They could program Open mares races more often but they wouldn't get enough nominations to run a race. Also doesn't help that one strong stable dominates the big money races and scares many others away. I think the blame lays with poor planing by past and present boards. They continue to ignore falling foal numbers and only offer token short sighted solutions.

Just my opinion and I mean no offense to you or your horses and I hope that you continue to have success. Our industry needs both large and small owners, trainers and breeders to survive , I think having any one stable dominate so much is driving away the smaller investors.

[Bonnie]

I love racing and breeding my fillies and mares Rick. Have been doing it for 50 years and I am still passionate about my horses. Frustration and disappointment got to me when I searched for a race for Abbey . It’s been the same for decades but I agree smaller fields and races not standing up have highlighted and exacerbated the problem. Without racing opportunities and decent prize money many owners and breeders are walking away.
As a breeder I feel the industry is in crisis. The upcoming change of direction from a leading Vic stud this season will have a huge impact on the small to mid sized breeders with added costs for all. Yabby Dam Farms have announced a substantial reduction in their participation and this comes from an owner who has made a major investment in the industry.
I posed a question to David Martin recently regarding the NR of one of my horses and was told to give the system “time “ . I fear time is running out !

[gutwagon]

Unfortunately Anne the new "Handicapping System" will not solve the lack of horses being bred or people leaving the industry. It may help some owners and frustrate others. They are hell bent on running more and more races, they don't seem to care about how uneven the races are or small fields ! The tiered prize money races were going to fix everything but as most expected it has made it worse.

In my opinion the new board and the previous one are/were just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and refusing to admit there is a leak. Anybody that mentions the leak is told to "give it time" !

[Dot]

Out of interest Rick what would you propose to get more horses bred and stop people leaving the industry? And how would you fund it?

[gutwagon]

I don't have a magical fix for the industry Dot but I know what they are currently trying is not working. They should not be using turnover as a measure of success , they should be using foal numbers and industry participant numbers.
Breeding bonuses need to be aimed at smaller breeders . They need to concentrate on getting people back to the tracks. They need to remodel the Melton facilities to make it a more punter and people friendly place. I don't think the idea of running as many races as possible with small fields will help in the long run. The tiered prize money system is a disaster and is driving many away. Integrity is still a big issue.

I think that the bottom line is if you can get more people on track and interested in the sport it will eventually solve the problems. Aim more at the ownership, breeding and social experience and not just all about gamboling.
How you do that and fund it ? That's the job for people in charge, and they should be people with passion and experience in harness racing.
They need to start really listening to people in the industry, look at the reasons they are leaving. At the moment many of the people that I speak to and including myself think that the current board is treating us like idiots.

[Dot]

I love racing and breeding my fillies and mares Rick. Have been doing it for 50 years and I am still passionate about my horses. Frustration and disappointment got to me when I searched for a race for Abbey . It’s been the same for decades but I agree smaller fields and races not standing up have highlighted and exacerbated the problem. Without racing opportunities and decent prize money many owners and breeders are walking away.
As a breeder I feel the industry is in crisis. The upcoming change of direction from a leading Vic stud this season will have a huge impact on the small to mid sized breeders with added costs for all. Yabby Dam Farms have announced a substantial reduction in their participation and this comes from an owner who has made a major investment in the industry.
I posed a question to David Martin recently regarding the NR of one of my horses and was told to give the system “time “ . I fear time is running out !

Perhaps this is a help to you Anne, I confess HRNSW has put a heap of stuff out and I’ve only just scanned through it so I’m not sure of the frequency of these races, every week might mean a trainer change but Pistol Abbey would be racing mares as you wish Anne.


https://www.harness.org.au/NEWS/news2/uploads/190701%20Metropolitan%20Handicapping%20System%20-%20Mares%20from%201%20July%202019.pdf

[Bonnie]

Thanks Dot.

[Adaptor]

Interesting to look at the sire lines of the six Vicbred Super Series finals at the weekend.
No Cam Fella sireline winners.That's a change from the domination by Bettors Delight in Group 1 finals.

2 Direct Scooters (Somebeachsomewhere)
3 Adios Line ..or Abercrombie line ( Art Major)
1 No Nukes.. (Western Terror)

[Messenger]

Finally home and I got the time to listen to the RSN Stewart and Tonkin extended interview
Although I previously listed their achievements on the night, it sounds more mind-blowing when they state that their horses filled 16/18 places in the Gp1's
I would have liked it if they had delved a little further into the secret to their success - saying that it is just hard work makes it sound like the rest of the industry are lazy layabouts
They did say that Clayton has a special talent for picking yearlings - something you cannot teach
He is a serious believer in light weight drivers
Reminiscing about Safari's win over Blacks A Fake in the Ballarat Cup

They kept talking about the training partnership and yet it is not one officially

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/rsn-special-emma-stewart-and-clayton-tonkin/

[gutwagon]

Kevin, most people that I speak to in the industry call them "the Tonkin horses". I think it makes a joke of the integrity push that they are not officially a training partnership.

We would all like to know what their secret is !!!!!!

[Dot]

Oh come on boys Emma’s the trainer, and Clayton’s just another bloke trying to steal a woman’s thunder!!

[Messenger]

All men are b@$+@£#$

[Dot]

I love racing and breeding my fillies and mares Rick. Have been doing it for 50 years and I am still passionate about my horses. Frustration and disappointment got to me when I searched for a race for Abbey . It’s been the same for decades but I agree smaller fields and races not standing up have highlighted and exacerbated the problem. Without racing opportunities and decent prize money many owners and breeders are walking away.
As a breeder I feel the industry is in crisis. The upcoming change of direction from a leading Vic stud this season will have a huge impact on the small to mid sized breeders with added costs for all. Yabby Dam Farms have announced a substantial reduction in their participation and this comes from an owner who has made a major investment in the industry.
I posed a question to David Martin recently regarding the NR of one of my horses and was told to give the system “time “ . I fear time is running out !

Empires switch to all frozen semen stallion roster confirmed and pricing released. No change really for Captaintreacherous and SBSW who are booked out but I think breeders will vote with their feet for Betting Line (third season always difficult anyway) Heston Blue Chip and Well Said as pricing and incentives do not appear very favourable to breeders for the extra costs and risk involved with frozen semen.

Should be a “win” for studs providing fresh semen and better opportunities for locally bred sires ( particularly if HRV begin to support them as other states do) and an incentive for others to source frozen semen sires at better terms then offered by Empire.

[Bonnie]

Thanks Kev. Pistol Abbey is an amazing mare ; just gets the job done in a very professional way. The enquiries are coming from US buyers , my head says Yes but emotionally my heart says No. She is only 4 but her racing career is very limited and I certainly don’t need another broodmare. There is one Open Mares race next week and no more until the Breeders Crown 4 year old mares on August 24 ( not even a lead up race for that ). I will not break her heart racing against the boys at the top level. Certainly there are early issues with the NR but programming leaves a lot to be desired. If you are a breeder a mare with a good track record adds value but it’s frustrating when the opportunities are not provided equally to both sexes.
One of Australia’s best mares Soho Burning Love has been sold to the USA to continue her racing career. Owner says reluctant to sell but lack of racing opportunities for mares is the reason behind the sale .

[Messenger]

Conspiracy Theory: provide no mares races in order to force them into the breeding barn to improve horse numbers

Implausibe, I know, as it results in a -1 to the horse population and only turns positive if and when they finally produce 2 racing progeny :confused:

[gutwagon]

One big problem with that Conspiracy Theory is that the board doesn't seem to want people to breed horses. They are giving very little incentive to breeders.

My theory is the TAB and Labor government want Harness racing to die. TAB has plenty of racing and dog races, they don't need Harness racing with long races and false starts.

[Dot]

Agree there’s not much incentive coming from HRV to breed. You might be right but does the Vic government really want to lose a $400m plus industry based predominantly in regional Victoria or is the message just not getting through to the right people in government? Tab may have plenty of gallops and dogs races but they don’t actually have enough to fill every minute of their wall to wall business model, so they do still need harness racing.

TAB could benefit from longer races if they activate their Betting Exchange license