Pizzuto suspended

[Karloo Krew]

Some might be interested to know that Kevin Pizzuto has today been suspended for 12 months for THAT drive on Our Amazing Art at Menangle on 20 September

Full decision is here (courtesy of harness.org.au)

Stewards today concluded the inquiry into the driving tactics adopted by Mr Kevin Pizzuto in relation to his drive on Our Amazing Art (NZ) at the Menangle harness meeting on 20 September 2011.

Mr Pizzuto was found guilty under rule 147, where a driver fails to drive a horse on its merits and has had his licence to drive in races suspended for a period of twelve (12) months.

Mr Pizzuto was also charged under Rule 149 (1) for failing to give his horse every opportunity over the concluding stages of the race to which he pleaded not guilty. Mr Pizzuto was found guilty of the charge and had his licence to drive in races suspended for a period of six (6) months.

Stewards further directed that both penalties be served concurrently and further advised Mr Pizzuto of his rights of appeal.

[David Summers]

Good news and congratulations to the stewards for this decision.

Does that mean that he still continues to train in the very industry that he has now been banned from driving in?? It's not a good look to anyone looking on from outside the industry.

[Flashing Red]

I know my opinion will be unpopular, but I think 12 months is a pretty harsh penalty. I understand the uproar with this race and wholeheartedly support the stewards in their endeavor to enforce the rules, but here is my .02c....

While it would have "looked" better if Mr Pizzutto had rein driven his charge after he put the whip away, I am of the opinion that even if he kept whipping the horse he would have still finished second. I hadn't watched the race when the last thread on here went wild, but I have since watched it and I think no matter what he did, the horse would have run second anyway.

Just my view, I'm sure most will disagree.

[aussiebreno]

I know my opinion will be unpopular, but I think 12 months is a pretty harsh penalty. I understand the uproar with this race and wholeheartedly support the stewards in their endeavor to enforce the rules, but here is my .02c....

While it would have "looked" better if Mr Pizzutto had rein driven his charge after he put the whip away, I am of the opinion that even if he kept whipping the horse he would have still finished second. I hadn't watched the race when the last thread on here went wild, but I have since watched it and I think no matter what he did, the horse would have run second anyway.

Just my view, I'm sure most will disagree.

Thats opinion. Horse wasn't driven out despite having a chance.

[strong persuader]

Just my view, I'm sure most will disagree.
Count me among the majority. For mine, the ceasing of urging followed by the look over the right shoulder spoke volumes about what place Mr Pizzuto was content to finish in.

[Flashing Red]

Brenno.... I don't think so?

Rule 156(f)
"a horse shall not be whipped after it has passed the winning post at the finish of a race, its run is finished, or if it cannot maintain or improve its position in the race."

We both know that on a daily basis drivers have stopped driving out their horses, even in close finishes, because they aren't going to improve their position. I think the difference here is that the finish was between two stablemates. You never know what is going through any driver's mind during a race, but I honestly do feel there is a plausible argument here that the horse was not driven out because it couldn't have won anyway. Infact it is a bet hate of mine when drivers continue to whip their horses when they can't improve their position.

I know my view won't be popular, but I have tried to back up my view with a regulation. :)

[aussiebreno]

Brenno.... I don't think so?

Rule 156(f)
"a horse shall not be whipped after it has passed the winning post at the finish of a race, its run is finished, or if it cannot maintain or improve its position in the race."

We both know that on a daily basis drivers have stopped driving out their horses, even in close finishes, because they aren't going to improve their position. I think the difference here is that the finish was between two stablemates. You never know what is going through any driver's mind during a race, but I honestly do feel there is a plausible argument here that the horse was not driven out because it couldn't have won anyway. Infact it is a bet hate of mine when drivers continue to whip their horses when they can't improve their position.

I know my view won't be popular, but I have tried to back up my view with a regulation. :)

Yeah but its your/anyones opinion as to whether he would have maintained or improved the horses position. It's run hadn't finished imo and of many on here. That rules a bit of a nuffy rule given the conjecture and shades of grey. At the end of the day we will never know because it wasn't driven out.
That rule is there to stop the abuse of a horse that has clearly lost the race; not as a loophole for actions like Pizzutos.

[aussiebreno]

totally agree F RED the penalty is way to harsh.I have watched the reply a number of times and in my opinion Our Amazing Art was never going to beat the winner.Mr Pizzuto should appeal the decision.I have seen worse drives, watch replays at menangle on tuesday there was an absolute shocker nothin said as it was a high profile trainer/driver.
Mr Pizzuto you keep training those winners.
New poster. 2 posts both on the Pizzuto case in support of him (not that there is anything wrong with supporting him). No need to tell him on the forum to keep training the winners just tell him next you see him. Were you on the stablemate? How much you win?

[carrot head]

Admin if your'e going to delete half of my thread you may as well delete the lot.The best parts were taken out THANKS FOR NOTHING.

[David Summers]

carrot head your profile says that you are a "solicitor". Touting for new business here perhaps?

Also I trust that in your business letters that you have a grammar and spell checker in use.

[Suzie]

This is appalling by the harness racing to give Kevin such a harsh suspension. Kevin has given his life to harness racing since he was nine years of age with Mini trotting.
Your Heading is correct Kevin did get a 'HEAVY' suspension.
He clearly looked distressed when he see his stable mates gear fall off and once he gets his concentration back then it’s too late to whip the horse, isn’t that what he always gets fines for?
This is politics at play! I may be his sister but I have also been in and watching the industry since 6 years of age and I have never been so disheartened :(

[Suzie]

If you knew Kevin he has always looked over his shoulder since he was in mini trotting this is what it looked like but believe me he had no reason to come second! the winner paid nothing??? watch the race from a different angle and you will see the gear fall off and Kevin look at it!
KEVIN DESERVES AN APPOLOGY

[coldshot]

Without getting into the details of this particular case, I would say that it may be expected under the current circumstances clouding the sport that anyone found guilty of a breach of the rules can expect a stiff penalty. There is still the opportunity to appeal in this case.

[Minty]

I watched this race. A number of times. No matter how many times I watch the race I doubt the second placegetter would have caught the winner. Mr Pizzuto has tried to act within the rules of racing in terms of whip use. The horse was maintaining its position and was not going to get beat for second. It would have been wrong to continue to whip this horse. Has any of the people bagging the driver looked up the the sectional times of the race. Has anyone worked out what Our Amazing Art ran his last sectional in? Has anyone tried to estimate waht the horse would have had to run to get over the leader?

The stewards in NSW have made a mess of things. The damage that has been done will take a LONG time to be fixed. If it will be. Unfortunately by now jumping on people whenever they feel like, or whenever the mob want a lynching. Cannot nor will it ever reverse what has happened. Giving out harsher penalities now is not going to fix it, it is like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. Bit late people, there is no way known this person should have been suspended for 12 months it is ridiculous.

It looks to me that the stewards and other industry participents are on a witch hunt and simply burning this person at the stake. It is not right and only doing the stewards more damage in the eyes of the rest of Australia.

[The Rainmaker]

Has anyone tried to estimate waht the horse would have had to run to get over the leader?



The official times from harnessweb for the race are:

Franco Torres winning time for the race was 1.56.972
Our Amazing Arts time for the race was 1.57.069

Therefore if Our Amazing Art finished 0.098 of a second faster he wouldve won the race.

That is less than one tenth of a second. Would it have made up less than 1/10th of a second if Pizzuto drove it out until the finish line? The stewards think so, whoever backed Our Amazing Art thinks so, and anyone who knows anything about harness racing thinks so. The times dont lie.

At the end of the day, Pizzuto can continue to train, Bennett can continue to drive his horses as he usually does, and Pizzuto will only be at a disadvantage when Bennett cant take the drive or he has two runners in the one race. The sentence on paper looks alot harsher than it really is.

[aussiebreno]

It seems Mr Pizzuto has many friends that are supporting him....or many aliases I don't know.

[Minty]

The official times from harnessweb for the race are:

Franco Torres winning time for the race was 1.56.972
Our Amazing Arts time for the race was 1.57.069

Therefore if Our Amazing Art finished 0.098 of a second faster he wouldve won the race.

That is less than one tenth of a second. Would it have made up less than 1/10th of a second if Pizzuto drove it out until the finish line? The stewards think so, whoever backed Our Amazing Art thinks so, and anyone who knows anything about harness racing thinks so. The times dont lie.


I should've worded that better. I was talking about the final sectional.

[Davo]

I cannot beleive that there is so much support for what Kevin Pizzuto did or didn't do in that race at Menangle. The perception was terrible. I have read excuse after excuse from Kevin Pizzuto sympathisers but there is no question that before the seat fell off Pizzuto stopped driving the horse. Watch the video and you will see. I understand that Pizzuto was hit with a hard suspension already for this silly whip rule. But that doesn't mean dont hit the horse. Most people seems to believe it would have won easy.

There is no doubting that Pizzuto has been good for NSW harness racing as his family have spent an awful lot of money on good horses to bring and race in NSW. Better horses mean better racing. I don't blame a Padberg from defending Kevin because all the Pizzuto stable cast offs end up in Debby Padbergs stable in WA. This doesn't excuse what happened in the race two weeks ago.

12 months is a stiff sentance but we all know it will be reduced big time on appeal. But if the stewards are going to be serious then they need to be consistent. There is no way Pizzuto should be the only one getting a massive suspension. I happened to see a race at the pub this arvo at Newcastle. The last race. The driver of the hot hot favourite didn't produce his whip until the last 20m when he was beaten by a 100-1 horse. I would believe that this driver should get a significant suspension too.
Kevin does not drive too much so it shouldn't affect him until Greg is sidelined for something like injury or suspension or for some other reason.

[Flashing Red]

It seems Mr Pizzuto has many friends that are supporting him....or many aliases I don't know.

I wouldn't regard him as a friend, rather as an acquaintance. I am calling it how I see it. :)

I think with the real names rule, the faceless nameless key board warriors have nicked off. I wouldn't have dared mentioned anything contrary in that locked thread. They were (shamefully) going at it torch and pickfork style. Please! With real names introduced, people have to be more civilised because they are accountable. Which is why I think contrary opinions are now appearing, people aren't afraid of getting their head bitten off :)

[Flashing Red]

the winner paid nothing???

I also think this is in his favour. :) Betting records normally reveal support for the less fancied stablemates, not the odds-on pop....

[Minty]

I wouldn't regard him as a friend, rather as an acquaintance. I am calling it how I see it. :)


I am very much the same FR. I wouldn't know Kevin Pizzuto if I fell over him! I can't see how flogging a horse is improving perception of harness racing. In fact quiet the opposite. Whip use is one of the most contentious issues affecting public perception of the sport. And I'm talking about the general public, not just punters. Unfortunately a lot of punters think a horse will keep going quicker while a driver hits it. Not true.

[coldshot]

But if the stewards are going to be serious then they need to be consistent. There is no way Pizzuto should be the only one getting a massive suspension.

Agree 100% - consistency across the board.

[Thevoiceofreason]

You lot are kidding if you think the SUSPENSION handed out to Kevin Pizzuto is harsh.

I am not going to comment on his innocence or guilt, as I have said many times on other topics you need to see all the stewards video coverage to have any hope of making those determinations.

But I will pose this question to forumites who demand consistency who was the last Driver, Trainer or Jockey in Australia or New Zealand in either code who when found guilty off a merits charge was only suspended.

I am an old man and my memory is fading I admit that but I can not remember one. As always I am happy to be corrected.

[David Summers]

VOR, you say you are an "old man" , but you are as sharp as ever. I always enjoy your thoughtful posts. Keep it up http://www.postsmile.net/img/19/1943.gif (http://www.postsmile.com/)

[Minty]

But I will pose this question to forumites who demand consistency who was the last Driver, Trainer or Jockey in Australia or New Zealand in either code who when found guilty off a merits charge was only suspended.

I am an old man and my memory is fading I admit that but I can not remember one. As always I am happy to be corrected.


There have been a few. Penalties ranging from $5000 fine to 3 months suspension.

[David Summers]

I don't blame a Padberg from defending Kevin because all the Pizzuto stable cast offs end up in Debby Padbergs stable in WA.

Minty can you confirm that this statement about Pizzuto cast offs and the relationship with the Padberg stable is correct?

If so , your seeming defence of Pizzuto's drive , when your family has a close professional relationship with him , might make readers question your reasons for posting here. Also you have only joined the forums when this thread was started and have never posted before.

If the quote at the top of my post is correct , your statement in another post here "I wouldn't know Kevin Pizzuto if I fell over him!" is rather puzzling.

[Pureblonde]

$5000 fines and/or 3 month suspensions.....please Minty provide detail of these....they seem very light penalties for a "Merits" charge. VOR....are you saying the stewards should've disqualified Pizzuto?

[Thevoiceofreason]

$5000 fines and/or 3 month suspensions.....please Minty provide detail of these....they seem very light penalties for a "Merits" charge. VOR....are you saying the stewards should've disqualified Pizzuto?

Firstly I think Minty is wrong I do not recall the stewards imposing a "Suspension" penalty under a Merits charge ever and like you want details before I will concede.

I agree there have been thousands under the reasonable and permissible section of the rule since it was first around in the 1970's but none to my memory under a "Merits" charge.

I have not offered an opinion on the Pizutto drive and still will not for the reasons outlined all I am saying is if he is guilty of a " Merits" charge than the appropriate penalty is a period of disqualification from the game.

To my memory that has always been the case and this penalty moves into dangerous ground if he is guilty he can continue to train and now instead of driving them himself he can use the best driver available.

I am sorry but if that is harsh than I am an Astronaut.

[aussiebreno]

Firstly I think Minty is wrong I do not recall the stewards imposing a "Suspension" penalty under a Merits charge ever and like you want details before I will concede.

I agree there have been thousands under the reasonable and permissible section of the rule since it was first around in the 1970's but none to my memory under a "Merits" charge.

I have not offered an opinion on the Pizutto drive and still will not for the reasons outlined all I am saying is if he is guilty of a " Merits" charge than the appropriate penalty is a period of disqualification from the game.

To my memory that has always been the case and this penalty moves into dangerous ground if he is guilty he can continue to train and now instead of driving them himself he can use the best driver available.

I am sorry but if that is harsh than I am an Astronaut.
For some its even a reward not a punishment

[Davo]

I wouldn't know Kevin Pizzuto if I fell over him! .

Must be a few Kristy Padbergs then. There is one in WA who trains a horse called Alta Delihlah. You mentioned falling and I understand this horse fell in the last. Is it ok.

Did you realise Kevin Pizzuto trained Alta Delihlah in NSW before you bought it?

[Davo]

I also think this is in his favour. :) Betting records normally reveal support for the less fancied stablemates, not the odds-on pop....

Not correct.

[Minty]

Must be a few Kristy Padbergs then. There is one in WA who trains a horse called Alta Delihlah. You mentioned falling and I understand this horse fell in the last. Is it ok.

Did you realise Kevin Pizzuto trained Alta Delihlah in NSW before you bought it?

I most certainly know who trained the horse prior to my purchasing her. To clarify a few things. Yes, the stable has bought horses from the Pizzutto stable. Among many other stables from NSW, Vic, SA, NZ and even Tasmania. In fact more horses have been purchased from other stables over the last few years than from the Pizzuto stable.

I never spoke to Kevin Pizzuto prior to the puchase of AD. I bought her on someone elses recomendation. I have spoken to this person maybe twice on the phone. I never met them in person. So, yes, If I saw him on the street I would walk straight past him and be none the wiser. Same goes for a lot of people I have purchased horses from. Doesn't mean I know them. I simply purchased a horse that was for sale!

I still stand by my saying the penalty was to harsh. I still don't think the second place horse would have caught the winner regardless of how many times it was hit. It is my opinion and I am entitled to it. Same as you are entitled to yours and sometimes people simply disagree.

[2minuteman]

Missing Mr triplev123.Holiday's perhaps?

[David Summers]

No , has been banned twice for using fake real names. The warning at the top of the forum is clear enough.

Rules are rules and those who want to post here need to abide by them. I can't see how that can possibly be a problem.

[2minuteman]

Did not say it was a problem,just asking.Thanks for the reply.

[David Summers]

Sorry Ron , was not making any criticism of yourself in any way. My apologies to you if you thought I was.

When I said "I can't see how that can possibly be a problem" , it was directed at a couple of forum posters who think they are being "clever" trying to use stupid fake real names and who think that the new "real name" forum rules should not apply to them.

[2minuteman]

Sorry Ron , was not making any criticism of yourself in any way. My apologies to you if you thought I was.

When I said "I can't see how that can possibly be a problem" , it was directed at a couple of forum posters who think they are being "clever" trying to use stupid fake real names and who think that the new "real name" forum rules should not apply to them.
All sweet

[triplev123]

Sorry Ron , was not making any criticism of yourself in any way. My apologies to you if you thought I was.

When I said "I can't see how that can possibly be a problem" , it was directed at a couple of forum posters who think they are being "clever" trying to use stupid fake real names and who think that the new "real name" forum rules should not apply to them.

[VVV] Directed indeed. Taking your shots whilst I was on the sidelines eh? So, without further ado and by way of batting it back over the net there Dave, apparently your pomposity is only exceed by your self rightousness. Jules & the Crew have known exactly who I am since day 1, name, e-mail, phone numbers, the lot and this I gave voluntarily via email. If you can say the same then good for you. If not, then please...spare me the Boy Scout routine.

[David Summers]

Like 99% of users in the forums , we put on our glasses and read the instruction from the forum administrators at the top of the page and followed the directions. We did not behave like childish babies using silly names.

I did not make the rules , the administrators did, but note in the forum pole you voted "yes" and agreed that you would continue posting if you had to show your real name. I don't know why it is such a big deal. You received a warning in one of the threads from admin and most probably you were contacted direct. I am not here to have a debate with you.

I have enjoyed many of your posts and have enjoyed interacting with you in these forums over the past few months. There are a lot more important things to discuss at the moment.

Moving on , hopefully, I heard mention that all CCTV footage from Menangle over the last few months has been called for in the current investigation. Apparently some of it is quite explosive in those that are seen within the videos before particular races. I have only been told this second hand and wondered if you have seen this printed anywhere?

[David Summers]

While I think of it too, triple, I note on the NZ forum that you have been a critic of Auckland Reactor in the past. What did you make of his win last Friday? I thought was very impressive , especially from the standing start.

[triplev123]

like 99% of users in the forums , we put on our glasses and read the instruction from the forum administrators at the top of the page and followed the directions. We did not behave like childish babies using silly names.
[vvv] we don't share the same sense of humour apparently.

i did not make the rules , the administrators did, but note in the forum pole you voted "yes" and agreed that you would continue posting if you had to show your real name. I don't know why it is such a big deal. You received a warning in one of the threads from admin and most probably you were contacted direct. I am not here to have a debate with you.
[vvv] we don't share the same sense of irony either apparently.

i have enjoyed many of your posts and have enjoyed interacting with you in these forums over the past few months. There are a lot more important things to discuss at the moment.
[vvv] Aint that the truth. Teetering on a precipice is a good description in some respects.
The way forward here in NSW is what needs to be focussed on. I came across one of the blokes who's widely said to have been involved in all this while I was at Penrith the other night. I've known him for a quite long time, since his school days, and he has driven for us and for mates of mine in the distant and more recent past and I've been as mad as all Hell at him since I first heard of his alleged connection.
Up close, one on one, no one else around and you know...it was a bit uncomfortable but I ended up just saying g'day and making a bit of small talk about a stallion that was in one of the sire's brochures that was left on the bench. It surprised me. It was a lot harder than I thought to be pissed off at someone that you've admired and been friends with for so long as opposed to being pissed off at someone you've never liked to begin with. I think he knew by the look on my face that I was disappointed, I hope that he did. It is an awful damned business all this crap. The collateral damage is going to be something to behold.

moving on , hopefully, i heard mention that all cctv footage from menangle over the last few months has been called for in the current investigation. Apparently some of it is quite explosive in those that are seen within the videos before particular races. I have only been told this second hand and wondered if you have seen this printed anywhere?
[vvv] haven't heard the cctv thing but would not be at all suprised if it is correct. Regular attendees have mentioned that certain entities would make cameo appearances for no (at the time) fathomable reason/s. Hindsight perhaps serves to place these 'frank sinatra at sancturay cove' routines in context however.

vvv

[triplev123]

While I think of it too, triple, I note on the NZ forum that you have been a critic of Auckland Reactor in the past. What did you make of his win last Friday? I thought was very impressive , especially from the standing start.

[VVV] Not a fan of the mercurial AR. I also have significant doubts that he ever had a dose of colitus-x. I've seen it up close & personal and they don't put their heads out over the stall door, eyes bright, ears pricked and wearing a heavy blue canvas rug whilst they're suffering the rigours thereof...as was evidenced by the photos of old mate at the time.
That being said, and especially so given old mate Kelvin's VERY lackluster efforts with the horse when he was in the USA, just to get AR back to the track & firing at any level off the back of such a campaign, let alone to win one with him whilst in against that level of company, was without any shadow of a doubt one of the all-time great training performances from Mark Purdon. If the horse can go on from there, who knows? One FFA in a race where a few of the heavy hitters seemed to have missed away/had a few traffic issues is one thing. A New Zealand Cup would silence all.

[David Summers]

I can't believe how settled AR was in the run , compared to how he used to race. If he has finally got his head together , and naturally this is just one race, we can look forward to exciting times ahead.

We may not agree on some things triple, but Mark's training performance to do what he did with AR in his performance in this race , was really extraordinary.

[triplev123]

I missed this race first time around but a mate of mine suggested that I should go & have a look at it and compare it to the drive which spawned this thread.
Check out Nicole Mollander's drive on Neffeli Lavra in Race 3 at Menangle on Tuesday September 27th, 2011. To me, almost drive for drive as far as a lack of vigour over the concluding stages but she wins it. Now if she were to get beaten there instead of winning by a Tally-Ho paper...I wonder, does she also score 12 months on the sidelines?
Horse has got a big-arse Murphy Blind there so it's a fair thing that maybe it didn't see the opposition coming & it sure battled back like that was the case after being well headed...but again, really close to the line she just stops driving it. Dunno. More the horse than the driver maybe? Weird one that.

[Greg Hando]

I see the horse hangs in a bit she might want to try the Murphy on the other side very cool drive i don't think she saw the horse coming

[strong persuader]

I missed this race first time around but a mate of mine suggested that I should go & have a look at it and compare it to the drive which spawned this thread.
Check out Nicole Mollander's drive on Neffeli Lavra in Race 3 at Menangle on Tuesday September 27th, 2011. To me, almost drive for drive as far as a lack of vigour over the concluding stages but she wins it. Now if she were to get beaten there instead of winning by a Tally-Ho paper...I wonder, does she also score 12 months on the sidelines?
Horse has got a big-arse Murphy Blind there so it's a fair thing that maybe it didn't see the opposition coming & it sure battled back like that was the case after being well headed...but again, really close to the line she just stops driving it. Dunno. More the horse than the driver maybe? Weird one that.
This was mentioned in an interview by Bill Galway on TrotsTV. He said that the horse got on its knee and was full of praise for how NM kept it together and got it home.

[triplev123]

This was mentioned in an interview by Bill Galway on TrotsTV. He said that the horse got on its knee and was full of praise for how NM kept it together and got it home.

[VVV] I'm going to have to watch that race again Phil. If it got on a knee then it did so with such a feather-like touch that I missed it completely. To me it looked more like it just didn't see the horse to its outside until said horse had gone near on a length past it. That Murphy Blind was a whopper...looked like the lid off my Otto Bin.

[Mark Croatto]

I missed this race first time around but a mate of mine suggested that I should go & have a look at it and compare it to the drive which spawned this thread.
Check out Nicole Mollander's drive on Neffeli Lavra in Race 3 at Menangle on Tuesday September 27th, 2011. To me, almost drive for drive as far as a lack of vigour over the concluding stages but she wins it. Now if she were to get beaten there instead of winning by a Tally-Ho paper...I wonder, does she also score 12 months on the sidelines?
Horse has got a big-arse Murphy Blind there so it's a fair thing that maybe it didn't see the opposition coming & it sure battled back like that was the case after being well headed...but again, really close to the line she just stops driving it. Dunno. More the horse than the driver maybe? Weird one that.

G'day Jaimie

I was there and watched the finish to that race and even though it is hardly discernible on the video replay she kept flicking it over the last 50 metres. They were only light taps but tap it she most certainly did.

Regards

Mark

[triplev123]

Cheers Mark,
I certainly can't make that out from the video and not that I doubt Billy either but again I can't see it getting on a knee anywhere at any stage either. Maybe I need to get along to OPSM? That's a fair bet.
Interestingly, there's also not a mention anywhere in the Stewards Report of the obviously significant role the Murphy Blind played there...this despite the rule of the week style 'let's make a big show of it' routine that from time to time goes along with gear change notifications/announcements.
It makes that whole thing a bit of a farce really because if a particular piece of gear clearly makes a significant difference to a given performance (as it did in this case) nowhere is that noted for future reference.
For the sake of the Punters who plonk their $$$$ down next time out, I wonder...wouldn't it be a good idea to make a note somewhere in the previous outing's Stewards Report of the fact that because of the Murphy Blind the mare quite clearly didn't see the opposition coming at her until they were well past her?
Instead it says nothing at all other than the driver was fined for slow sectionals & then on the actual race results only there's a notation that she raced greenly and was warned. That's as helpful as an Axe without a handle.
I find the the subject of gear, gear changes etc. quite interesting because while it is just as vital to the outcome of a race as a change of tactics the emphasis that is placed upon it has always been and continues to be quite clearly significantly less. Perhaps, like the majority of the Punters, a great many of the Stewards simply do not know one piece of gear from another...and have no idea of their functions & so of possible/probable/actual reasons why various bits and pieces are being added or otherwise removed & so on. It's easier to police the slow sectionals or a 'changes of tactics'.

[Flashing Red]

Re the murphy blind: I think that is requires far to much detail on behalf of the steward. You are stepping into the realm of assumptions than fact. There is a difference between informing punters and spoon feeding them. I find the professional punters or big gamblers seem to need less help than the $20 punters...

:)

[triplev123]

G'day Flashing,

Said detail of course meaning that they would have to know what each piece of gear was and what its function is. :eek:
I think the required detail aspect is not the issue. Rather, I think it's much more simple than all that.
In the very same fashion as the vast majority of their Punting compatriots, I very much doubt the majority of Stewards would have any idea at all what a Murphy Blind was to begin with let alone what it is/was meant to do.
In fact I doubt that most onlookers, officialdom, participants and public alike...have any idea at all of what various bits of gear added to or subtracted from a given horse's rigging does/is expected to do/is designed to do. That's why the whole Gear Form and gear change notifications are such folly. If a horse goes out in full blocks one week and it goes out in a wide open bridle the next, I guarentee you that virtually nobody notices, Stewards included.

[Flashing Red]

I wish we could race with poles on both sides. But alas, rules are one full pole and a half (rein) pole only at the most.

[triplev123]

There's another stupid rule.
Worse still is that nobody in officialdom here can tell you for sure & certain why we are not allowed to race with two poles. Some will run with the line about 'safety on small tracks' etc ...but that just doesn't hold water. The fact is that they race on just as many half milers up there in the States as we do down here...for example, NY State is absolutely chock FULL of them & there's never a problem.

[Flashing Red]

It's safer a horse going in a straight line than bearing in or out, anyway.

It hasn't mattered as much now as our times and racing style have been noticeably slower than in the Northern Hemisphere. But, for example, Menangle is getting quicker by the week, it will become imperitive for horses to go straight. You loose too much ground and it becomes dangerous at the high speeds not to go straight. I never saw Yonkers, a tighter half mile than Harold Park, have any problems with horses wearing 2 poles. In fact about 1/2 of every field in every race raced with 2 poles. I believe Joe Muscara one time pointed out in a big race, maybe it was the Meadowlands Pace, every single starter wore 2 full poles.

I think if there was a forum (not an internet one) for people to discuss their views and work collaboratively with stewards... I feel that it will only be better for the industry overall. As it was recently pointed out to me, sometimes suggestion appear left field but instead of complaining, explaining will help you further your cause and allow those making the decision to be better informed when doing so. :)

[triplev123]

I'd very much like to see such a Forum convened here in NSW and I'd sure like to participate in it.
There are three or four 'rules' that immediately come to mind which are currently in play but that, IMO, need at the very least significant re-thinks and more likely require a holus bolus arse-hole-ing into the nearest garbage bin followed by an Ok, let's start again.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Welcome back barred one.

I thunk your stuff on the gear rules is interesting, however the simple fact is different trainers use different pieces of gear for differing uses.

Outside of this code but the most famous one I recall was a Norton Bit at the gallops, it is a pretty strong bit as gallops bits go most trainers used it as a hanging bit, it was listed as a hanging bit by all states.

Bart Cummings blew up said they were not a hanging bit although at the time marketed as one, he said it was used by his stable as a pulling bit and should be listed as such. He eventually won the battle with the bit in the gallops actually listed by name.

I have personally had many conversations with well respected Harness trainers who use gear for purposes it was not thought to be best for.

So I think your gear thoughts are a little too complex, all the authorities need to do is advertise its use as a change and monitor those changes at the track.

We can not expect to be spoon feed on every detail, next you will want an opinion by the officials this bloke can not drive or this bloke can not train.

We need to assume if gear is carried on a horse or removed from it there was a reason nothing more nothing less.

[Flashing Red]

I have personally had many conversations with well respected Harness trainers who use gear for purposes it was not thought to be best for.

So I think your gear thoughts are a little too complex, all the authorities need to do is advertise its use as a change and monitor those changes at the track.

We can not expect to be spoon feed on every detail, next you will want an opinion by the officials this bloke can not drive or this bloke can not train.

We need to assume if gear is carried on a horse or removed from it there was a reason nothing more nothing less.

I agree. I think that gear on/off should be notifed, diligently, then leave it at that. I also use certain pieces of equipment in a less than conventional way. And I'm with Bart on this one. Can't see how a Norton stops hanging, but you're thankful you have it on with one that pulls! :D