David Thorn....1 winner in the past month!!!

[Dust]

Interesting stat...!!!!!!!!!
Wasnt long ago his horses were running through brick walls.

[triplev123]

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Try again Phil. The fact that David took some time out to get married a few weeks ago & since then I suspect has more than likely been on a honeymoon wouldn't have come into it of course. Is there anything else I can help you with? The earth is round by the way, not flat.

[Greg Hando]

Good call 3 x V HA HA

[strong persuader]

That would have to be the greatest reason ever for the team going off form :)

[Dust]

Haha Bzzzzz..........
He has had plenty of runners and all have struggled.
40+ starters for 3 winners this season.
The stats dont lie. The stewards "warning" doesnt either...........
He only got married last week. Honeymoon..??? He was at Menangle on Tuesday. Thats not an excuse.

Oh and Greg..your just a nuffy from the bush. You claim to know alot about everything. But know nothing........

[triplev123]

Ahuh.
Uncle Russ, he must be ever so proud of you.
So much for your Real Names policy Admin.
What are you going to do about this one???

[doinmabest]

The McCarthy factor must also be acknowledged......winning 2 to 3 races every meeting....

[Greg Hando]

Haha Bzzzzz..........
He has had plenty of runners and all have struggled.
40+ starters for 3 winners this season.
The stats dont lie. The stewards "warning" doesnt either...........
He only got married last week. Honeymoon..??? He was at Menangle on Tuesday. Thats not an excuse.

Oh and Greg..your just a nuffy from the bush. You claim to know alot about everything. But know nothing........

Don't claim to no much about anything Dust just an opinion like everybody else perhap's the boy from the bush might run into you one day and have a good yarn i suppose you live in the city somewhere
so i might see you at Menangle one day or perhap's Penrith and a little tip you shouldn't throw insult's toward's those you don't know from behind a computer it's not very nice and just for
interest how long have you been in the game for and at what capacity owner,trainer etc ?

[triplev123]

The McCarthy factor must also be acknowledged......winning 2 to 3 races every meeting....

[VVV] What a factor it is Fred. Luke's stable is absolutely roaring, his horses are racing great & I think he's driving as well as I've ever seen him. Very professional. Good bloke too. Ever met Belinda, his other half? Very aggresive woman.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[doinmabest]

I like how he drives them kindly Jaimie..... Haven't met Belinda but I must be married to her half sister.......

[triplev123]

Yeh, I'd agree with that. His horses look good, obviously feel good & they'll race accordingly.
He has great hands too, rates them so well & he has a knack of getting their best but at the same time I can't ever remember seeing him knock one about. Above all else he seems to keep them mentally fresh/sharp.

[David Summers]

Hi Fred, good calling tonight. Bit off topic , but any more news about the proposed change of bringing back the Menangle 2300 to 2200 ?

[doinmabest]

Thanks Mate looking forward to it. As for the distance changes, no, it is quiet on that front David, my mail was good though.......Watch this space (or the 800m point as it may be) for a new distance.....

[mightymo]

hey Fred

Just make sure you call my girl home first tonight please!:):)

[doinmabest]

I think I will be Harvey.....Good Luck Mate

[mightymo]

Thanks Fred. Its probably her second last start in Aust, before she heads off to the USA to race

[Dust]

Aha Pot Kettle Greg....
You cant handle someone bagging you. You have been on here for some time doing it to others.
Maybe its time to turn the screws..........

Would be a pleasure to catch up some time soon. You never know...!!!!!

[Dust]

Fred, is it possible to alter the 2300m start as the back straight is lengthy enough to adjust by at least 100m??
Thats probably the only downside of having such a big track. Limited distances.......

[doinmabest]

Certainly will shorten the run to the first turn.... Becomes
A 200m run before they hit the bend....

[Greg Hando]

Aha Pot Kettle Greg....
You cant handle someone bagging you. You have been on here for some time doing it to others.
Maybe its time to turn the screws..........

Would be a pleasure to catch up some time soon. You never know...!!!!!

Tell me where i bagged someone i don't remember it the only one's i bagged were the cheat's i think

[David Summers]

Greg , a bit of advice about this original poster , who has undoubtedly used a previous alias and has a "not too well hidden" agenda in posting in the forums.


68


If you just ignore their crap they will have nothing to argue with you about and usually crawl back under the rock they came from. Answering them back is what keeps them posting. I suspect that several of us have had words with this poster previously in his/her other persona.

[Greg Hando]

Thank's for your advice David the post's do sound familiar in context your point is noted.

[Harness29]

David Thorn has had the same horses really since start of last season, quite possible they are all on there marks, whilst people like Luke mcarthy constantly have horses worth 50k plus continuously flowing through his barn.. But I must admit tho Thorns horses have really really head butted the brick wall, whilst I say that his team may have hit there marks they do not hit it as fast as his have.. There is a small underlining reason I'm sure

[latemail_cam]

True Dave has had the same horses for the past year and yes most of them have hit there mark. Most of Daves winners come before Luke hit town and now the fitzpatricks are getting some real nice horses come through the stables.

[montana]

Thanks Fred. Its probably her second last start in Aust, before she heads off to the USA to race

Harvey, who do u send your horses to in the states ?

[mightymo]

This is the first one i have sent over there to race.

I am most likely sending her to Noel Daley. Besides being a very good trainer, Luke's brother works for Noel and also drives for him, so he will be able to keep a close eye on her for me.

[Don Corleone]

[VVV] What a factor it is Fred. Luke's stable is absolutely roaring, his horses are racing great & I think he's driving as well as I've ever seen him. Very professional. Good bloke too. Ever met Belinda, his other half? Very aggresive woman.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Very professional is Luke and his team. I sent a horse over a few months ago and he has kept constantly in touch with us. Good bloke, good horseman.

Also re: David Thorn, I think the interview he did a few weeks ago on trots tv he suggested he would have a quite early season.

[Dust]

***********
so i might see you at Menangle one day or perhap's Penrith and a little tip you shouldn't throw insult's toward's those you don't know from behind a computer it's not very nice

Greg, you should take your own advice..........
Easy to sit and judge others..........its gunna bite you this time.

[Dust]

David........Best to mind your own business.
This is a forum and a public one at that.
I have only one agenda now............

[Susan]

Since 1 September David Thorn has had 42 starters for 6 winners and 14 placings (plus a further 7 4ths). Personally I don't consider them bad stats! Especially when you take into consideration the McCarthy factor!

[Stonie]

Interesting stat...!!!!!!!!!
Wasnt long ago his horses were running through brick walls.

I remembered reading through this thread and found it strange all the excuses that were given.
It seems things havent changed for David.
3 months on and it gets worse.......


76 starts for 8 wins.......thats almost 1 win for every 10 runners.
Last season he was going at just over 1 win for every 4 runners.

[candykisses]

I remembered reading through this thread and found it strange all the excuses that were given.
It seems things havent changed for David.
3 months on and it gets worse.......


76 starts for 8 wins.......thats almost 1 win for every 10 runners.
Last season he was going at just over 1 win for every 4 runners.

Let me guess the same members that are standing up for the new poster boy , were standing up for thorny when he was running rampant.

Probably with the same OUT TRAINING OUT DRIVING MANTRA

[Starship Captain]

In Victoria a similar thing seemed to happen, a pair from down Cranbourne way and the Fat Butcher lost all there steam.

[Greg Hando]

If i can add something to Stonie's post. David now has 55% placing's 1st - 4th as a trainer and 53% as a driver at Menangle no not going very good at all.

[Stonie]

Let me guess the same members that are standing up for the new poster boy , were standing up for thorny when he was running rampant.

Probably with the same OUT TRAINING OUT DRIVING MANTRA

Yeah you got it Cassie, Same old....crap.
Its funny how most trainers can work away and get similar results year in year out.
Whilst others have these unexplainable bursts where their horses are unbeatable.
There are a handful of them around and this is something that should be looked at.
They are quite happy to pick up a form reversal of a horse but not trainers......

[Mighty Atom]

I certainly wouldn't accuse anybody training today of any malpractice;however I do make my own private assessment of trainers and horses and generally keep it to myself. I'm like Bill (Thevoiceofreason), I've been around horses a lot longer than most on this forum. I've been through the late 60's,70's 80's and 90's and I know how it works. There were trainers bobbing up from nowhere during the 70's & 80's, achieving almost instant success and then disappearing, due mainly to the analytical labs. Nothing has changed except the swab testing has become a lot more sophisticated and you better be more than one step ahead of them.

On saying this the penalties for positive swabs are becoming more and more lenient and trainers are taking advantage of this.Its imperative that an analyse of what drugs can be used (therapeutic) and what can't (performance enhancing) be presented and made legal.

[The Rainmaker]

I think in the current climate, people are entitled to be a little curious or ask questions, especially when particular trainers racetrack results warrant it. This is due to the ongoing swabbing and bribing scandal in NSW and also the fact there is still no test available for detecting the presence of ITPP in swab samples. In my opinion if both of these issues were put to bed, people may have more peace of mind that all trainers are competing on a level playing field.

I thought a good point was raised in an earlier post, if stewards can inquire about an improved performance of a horse in a race (or even a poor performance in a race), why can't the same thing be done with trainers who's teams have gone from average to firing in a matter of weeks/months.

I was talking to some friends in the industry afew weeks ago. I mentioned to them to keep an eye out for Ronnie Lloyd's horses around Sydney, they seemed to be firing way above their abilities and performances of a couple of months earlier. Sure enough not even a fortnight later it was made public one of his runners obtained a positive swab at Penrith. It just goes to show where there is smoke, more often than not there is fire.

[Thevoiceofreason]

I posted on this thread yesterday with a post that was not in any way inflammatory can the moderator that removed it please private message me with the reason so I do not break the rules again.

[Stonie]

I think in the current climate, people are entitled to be a little curious or ask questions, especially when particular trainers racetrack results warrant it. This is due to the ongoing swabbing and bribing scandal in NSW and also the fact there is still no test available for detecting the presence of ITPP in swab samples. In my opinion if both of these issues were put to bed, people may have more peace of mind that all trainers are competing on a level playing field.

I thought a good point was raised in an earlier post, if stewards can inquire about an improved performance of a horse in a race (or even a poor performance in a race), why can't the same thing be done with trainers who's teams have gone from average to firing in a matter of weeks/months.

I was talking to some friends in the industry afew weeks ago. I mentioned to them to keep an eye out for Ronnie Lloyd's horses around Sydney, they seemed to be firing way above their abilities and performances of a couple of months earlier. Sure enough not even a fortnight later it was made public one of his runners obtained a positive swab at Penrith. It just goes to show where there is smoke, more often than not there is fire.

Very true......
I doubt David has any involvement in the current scandal but with the influx of American influences of late things have gotten out of control.
I just hope that every swab frozen of late is tested when available. Just because things cant be detected now doesnt mean it should be let go.

[tiny]

Very true......
I doubt David has any involvement in the current scandal but with the influx of American influences of late things have gotten out of control.
I just hope that every swab frozen of late is tested when available. Just because things cant be detected now doesnt mean it should be let go.

I agree. but on the frozen swabs I don't understand what will happen in the future should a swab go positive to a new drug:
Will prize money that has been paid have to be returned?
If a trainer has several positive swabs to the same drug over a period of time will this be seen as a single offence or several?
Can a trainer clam that at the time of the race the undetictibal was not on the probihideted substance list.

My opinion is this is uncharted territory and should it happen open a massive can of worms.

I remember the same calmes made years ago when EPO was rumered to be around. But to my knowledge no one in harness racing has ever had an EPO positive.

I honestly believe this will all eventuate to nothing. I really dought itpp in being used in Australian racing. It's just the same as its always been and the rumer mill keeps on spinning out the usual crap.

[The Rainmaker]

I remember the same calmes made years ago when EPO was rumered to be around. But to my knowledge no one in harness racing has ever had an EPO positive.



Wrong.

As at 10/2009:

1. ALAN DONOHOE
Five charges for acting in a manner detrimental to the sport by administering EPO to five different horses: Schultz, Jimmy Jazzalong, Bailey Bromac, Disco Lemonade and Riverboat Rosie.
Penalty: Six-year disqualification.
Status: Appeal against penalty yesterday, reduced from six years to four years and six months.

2. JEREMY QUINLAN/
LARRY GRANTHAM
Three positive tests from pacer Em Maguane.
Penalties: Quinlan (trainer) disqualified for six years. Grantham (stable foreman who admitted administering the drug) disqualified for 13 years.
Status: Quinlan appeal to be heard at a date to be set. Grantham did not appeal.

3. AUSTIN MIFSUD
One positive test from an out-of-competition sample with pacer Julies Equity.
Status: Inquiry to be heard at date to be fixed.

4. PHILLIP WALTERS
One positive test from an out-of-competition sample with pacer Second Mortgage.
Status: Inquiry at a date to be fixed.





I honestly believe this will all eventuate to nothing. I really dought itpp in being used in Australian racing. It's just the same as its always been and the rumer mill keeps on spinning out the usual crap.



Wrong.

I have talked to a trainer and a owner in NSW who have been approached in the past to buy ITPP. I can tell you the stuff is not cheap, way above the means of a hobby trainer. The only blokes who can afford this are big time stables and big time punting stables. It is definitely out there.

HRNSW came out with an article a couple of months ago, stating that older swab samples would be frozen and retained for when a test becomes available to detect ITPP. I can guarantee HRNSW knows it is out there, and this was HRNSW's subtle way of telling these trainers to quit while the going is good.

[Flashing Red]

I posted on this thread yesterday with a post that was not in any way inflammatory can the moderator that removed it please private message me with the reason so I do not break the rules again.

It was me, nothing you said was wrong and you did not break the rules, it was more a couple of the replies/questions to you which I deleted. I believe you quoted one of the replies/questions so it was easier for me to mass delete. You did nothing wrong :)

[tiny]

Hi rainman I didn't know about these positives. Do you know if they were from frozen swabs from the period before the EPO test.
The point that I was trying to make is that any positive that comes from a frozen swab will be uncharted territory in legal terms and one that may be better left alone.

[Thevoiceofreason]

It was me, nothing you said was wrong and you did not break the rules, it was more a couple of the replies/questions to you which I deleted. I believe you quoted one of the replies/questions so it was easier for me to mass delete. You did nothing wrong :)

Sweet Thanks

[The Rainmaker]

Hi rainman I didn't know about these positives. Do you know if they were from frozen swabs from the period before the EPO test.
The point that I was trying to make is that any positive that comes from a frozen swab will be uncharted territory in legal terms and one that may be better left alone.

Hi tiny

As far as I know those EPO positives were from current testing (at that time), but I may be wrong.

In regards to the dated frozen swabs if a test becomes available for ITPP in future, personally I don't think it should be left alone, but I'm sure HRNSW and other relevant authorities probably share your view. Who decides how far they go back in time to test samples, and at what cost, which/whos samples get tested, and how many get tested?

It all becomes a bit messy. That's why I'm certain that the media release a couple of months ago from HRNSW in relation to testing for ITPP was a 'warning shot' to certain trainers to stop using it.

[Triple V]

I think it is now rather timely to note that the person who started this thread & all those who saw fit to pile on afterwards have as yet not been able to find it within themselves to revisit it & then acknowleged the fact that since the 14th of January, David has had 28 starters @ Menangle for no less than 10 winners and 9 placegetters (and this including instances where he has had 2 starters in the same event)
On that score, Michael Muscat driving as well as ever. Onya Mick! Impending married life is obviously doing you the world of good. ;)

[ringman]

I think it is now rather timely to note that the person who started this thread & all those who saw fit to pile on afterwards have as yet not been able to find it within themselves to revisit it

I think being banned may have something to do with that :p.

[racefair]

I think it is now rather timely to note that the person who started this thread & all those who saw fit to pile on afterwards have as yet not been able to find it within themselves to revisit it & then acknowleged the fact that since the 14th of January, David has had 28 starters @ Menangle for no less than 10 winners and 9 placegetters (and this including instances where he has had 2 starters in the same event)
On that score, Michael Muscat driving as well as ever. Onya Mick! Impending married life is obviously doing you the world of good. ;)

Hi Jamie, from memory some inferred that the introduction of the "2 hour On course arrival time" slowed a few local trainers such as David Thorn a little. This expired and went back to 1 hour on the 19th December 2011. see http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=94625
You've made comment that the 2 hour arrival time didn't make a difference, however the statistics and many people including senior stewards disagree.

[Triple V]

I stand by those comments Jett however I think you've somewhat misrepresented what I said.
In terms of effectiveness I believe and have always believed that Pre Race testing...be it on the back of a 1hr or 2hrs pre race arrival, is largely a waste of time because it tends only to catch the needy, the greedy, the sloppy & occasionally, though I hesitate to use the term, the 'unlucky'.
It would no doubt be harder to beat the 2hrs pre race arrival than it would be to beat the 1hr requirement...no question, but from what I have read about & learned of the subject, IMO it is certainly not an impossibility.
On the other hand it is absolutely 100% stone cold impossible to beat a 2hrs Post Race TCO2 test. There's not a pre race buffer substance on this earth that would be effective come race time but unable to detected up to 2hrs afterwards.
In closing, there's not a lot of point in quoting the views of Snr. Stewards to me because, having banged away at this subject for more years than I care to remember I've found that, with one or two very notable exceptions, they tend to have a pretty sizeable knowledge vacuum as far as this subject is concerned.
It was not all that many years ago when I raised the subject of Post Race TC02 testing with a former Snr. Steward here in NSW that he looked at me rather blankly for a moment or two and then said..."Can they do that?".

[spurbuck]

Jett, people like you amuse me!
David has had prior to the last few weeks had a very ordinary bunch of horses in work and also had some time off himself. Now he has had his stable replenished with better horses coming back from the paddock.
But of course that wouldn't have anything to do with it would it!?!?!

[Stonie]

I think it is now rather timely to note that the person who started this thread & all those who saw fit to pile on afterwards have as yet not been able to find it within themselves to revisit it & then acknowleged the fact that since the 14th of January, David has had 28 starters @ Menangle for no less than 10 winners and 9 placegetters (and this including instances where he has had 2 starters in the same event)
On that score, Michael Muscat driving as well as ever. Onya Mick! Impending married life is obviously doing you the world of good. ;)

Part of your post is very inaccurate.......
You should know which part.
Lets just say you probably wont find the answer on the internet.

[racefair]

I stand by those comments Jett however I think you've somewhat misrepresented what I said.
In terms of effectiveness I believe and have always believed that Pre Race testing...be it on the back of a 1hr or 2hrs pre race arrival, is largely a waste of time because it tends only to catch the needy, the greedy, the sloppy & occasionally, though I hesitate to use the term, the 'unlucky'.
It would no doubt be harder to beat the 2hrs pre race arrival than it would be to beat the 1hr requirement...no question, but from what I have read about & learned of the subject, IMO it is certainly not an impossibility.
On the other hand it is absolutely 100% stone cold impossible to beat a 2hrs Post Race TCO2 test. There's not a pre race buffer substance on this earth that would be effective come race time but unable to detected up to 2hrs afterwards.
In closing, there's not a lot of point in quoting the views of Snr. Stewards to me because, having banged away at this subject for more years than I care to remember I've found that, with one or two very notable exceptions, they tend to have a pretty sizeable knowledge vacuum as far as this subject is concerned.
It was not all that many years ago when I raised the subject of Post Race TC02 testing with a former Snr. Steward here in NSW that he looked at me rather blankly for a moment or two and then said..."Can they do that?".

Hi Jamie, I've not researched the topic. I've just highlighted what others have inferred in terms of co incidences around arrival times and changes in local trainers success. Thanks for the information. Cheers,

[racefair]

Jett, people like you amuse me!
David has had prior to the last few weeks had a very ordinary bunch of horses in work and also had some time off himself. Now he has had his stable replenished with better horses coming back from the paddock.
But of course that wouldn't have anything to do with it would it!?!?!

Hi Tom,
Can you please be more specific. Which horses are very ordinary and which are the other? David has shown in the past to be very skillful at improving all horses and so why now do you suggest that he needs better horses to win races?
If you want to talk about it then I think that David is another with an amazing rise to ascendancy. Just take a look at a few of the Metro trainers ladder. In Season 09/10 David doesn't get a mention. He then top scores in season 10/11 with 39 1sts and currently has 7 1sts in season 11/12.
It would be interesting to see how many of his horses of season 09/10 made up his season 10/11. Did David have a full stable of horses in season 09/10 or did he get married then too? What changed?
http://www.harness.org.au/nsw-premierships.cfm?season_name=1112

[Triple V]

Hi Jamie, I've not researched the topic. I've just highlighted what others have inferred in terms of co incidences around arrival times and changes in local trainers success. Thanks for the information. Cheers,

[VVV] G'day Jett. I'd like to see Stewards get on the front foot, I'd like to see them being much more open/upfront/direct about this and other testing procedures/protocols. I think there's a little too much of the Undercover Elephant about it in the sense that the way arrivals and so on have been changed around, to me it kind of feels more like a Policeman jumping out from behind a Bus Shelter with a hand held radar gun. I just don't know why they don't come straight out with it and say that this is what we're doing, this is why and you've all been warned so fall foul of it and be prepared for the consequences. The cloak & dagger stuff just leads to more speculation & rumour. They could stop it all dead in its tracks if maybe they took a slightly different approach.