Its not a level playing field

[ringman]

I feel sorry for you blokes who are running by the rules of harness racing because you sure are up against it.i have not invested one cent on a race in months and sadly i wont be investing in the future so i am not talking through my kick.
its a absolute joke watching some of these races and seeing whats happening to the average hard worker when these scum bags are getting away with blue murder.its corrupt to the bones nothing is being done with sentences not being harsh enough.

So boys best to join the maggots and start doping your team and of course getting help from other drivers in the run because thats the only way you will be remotely able to compete with what your up against.

If anyone thinks its going to change then think again and keep your eyes open for the tooth fairy:p. what a shame such a great sport has been destroyed by inactivity of those in power to stamp out the scum bags not only that they even have the front to be seen out with persons under investigation(so they say)

bye bye Harness racing you have no hope of recovery unless people revolt and demonstrate while stopping a major meeting:D then they will have to do something MAYBE:mad:

[Paleface]

have heard this sentiment expressed all too often in the last year or so.

[Greg Hando]

ringman say's
So boys best to join the maggots and start doping your team and of course getting help from other drivers in the run because thats the only way you will be remotely able to compete with what your up against.

Two wrong's don't make a right why bring yourself to down to their level ?

[ringman]

Two wrong's don't make a right why bring yourself to down to their level ?

Yes i know Greg but you have no chance working within the rules, what hope has the average joe got when some drivers are assisting others and then you have the QLD mob team driving(its plain to see) and of course the obvious rorting. i honestly dont know how anyone can invest a cent at the moment as Harness racing is going to take a long time to recover from these mongrels and maybe it wont recover.
I would turnover 150k + weekly now i wont invest a cent because they are getting horses over the line by stealth.i had a huge day today(thanks Helmet) and normally i would be taking on the punters at the Harness meetings but i have no confidence in the present form to invest.
As for the future im working on gallops only until they clean the game up and everyone is on the same level playing field

[aussiebreno]

Yeah gallops are so clean...

[Big Max]

Washakie sits parked and it's team driving? a close look at the sectionals i think tell a different story 78.5 lead time then 30.3 30.2 28.1 27.7 mile rate 1.57..........Last year Mr Feelgood LED and went 1.55.9 this looks to me (and please correct me if i'm wrong)that Smokin Up had every chance but Mr Feelgood was just simply too quick.

Ps I'm sure if they went another 100mtrs Smokin Up's tenacity would have got him over the line
just my opinion!

[Toe Cutter]

When was the last time Washakie sat parked..????
It was a sting......

[ringman]

Washakie sits parked and it's team driving? a close look at the sectionals i think tell a different story 78.5 lead time then 30.3 30.2 28.1 27.7 mile rate 1.57..........Last year Mr Feelgood LED and went 1.55.9 this looks to me (and please correct me if i'm wrong)that Smokin Up had every chance but Mr Feelgood was just simply too quick.

Ps I'm sure if they went another 100mtrs Smokin Up's tenacity would have got him over the line
just my opinion!
who said they team drove last night ? it was a smart drive to take the sit on Mr FG

[ringman]

Yeah gallops are so clean...

lets just say they are about 95% cleaner than Harness racing at the moment where at least you can do form and its accurate unlike harness form.take for instance a horse like From London yesterday 3.0 fav and was no possible chance in the race on form but punters still took 3.5 and more on Betfair for plenty the mugs.not to mention Helmet who had no chance in the cox plate.

[barney]

Yeah gallops are so clean...
Group winner in Melbourne has tested positive to arsenic, used to help horse recover from tough run.
All codes have it just seems more in Harness than gallops at present.

[triplev123]

There are different forms or allotropes of Arsenic, grey, black and yellow. I can't remember which one is which but I very strongly suspect this is not the form used by dear old souls who might want to 'off' their husbands by way of banging some into his Eggs Benedict. :rolleyes:Even money it is Sodium Arsanilate. That's what Jurocyl is. Also referred to as pentalavent arsenic. It's a good headline but the same stuff is in ground water and there are detectable levels in tap water.

[Diesel]

Group winner in Melbourne has tested positive to arsenic, used to help horse recover from tough run.
All codes have it just seems more in Harness than gallops at present.

Plenty more in the Gallops than you think....
There are more high TC02s than Harness. The difference being they warn their participants to check feeds/routines.
Aust Harness seem to be the only ones persisting with this...

[Thevoiceofreason]

Plenty more in the Gallops than you think....
There are more high TC02s than Harness. The difference being they warn their participants to check feeds/routines.
Aust Harness seem to be the only ones persisting with this...

John you are partially right however a quick phone call and I think you will find out that the only state that does not provide this warning that a trainer is close to a breach of the rules is NSW to my understanding ever other state both codes has this warning system in place.

Michael Beattie introduced it to NSW as well to bring them into line but it left when he did or soon after. So there is no confusion if you are over you are over but if you are close you are warned and told to improve your procedures.

In NSW if you got a high one in the Beattie days then you got target tested for quite a while ask the trainers they all know.

[Flashing Red]

John you are partially right however a quick phone call and I think you will find out that the only state that does not provide this warning that a trainer is close to a breach of the rules is NSW to my understanding ever other state both codes has this warning system in place.

Not Qld as far as I believe.... I actually thought it was only Vic that sent warning letters. I think they are a great idea. It might help completely innocent trainers uncover dehydration issues (especially in winter times) and a host of other things etc....

[Greg Hando]

When was the last time Washakie sat parked..????
It was a sting......

Washakie has sat in the death 4 or 5 times in his last 12 start's and do you think John said to Washakie's owner's were gonna team drive so Mr Feelgood can win and we'll run for place money

[Diesel]

Washakie has sat in the death 4 or 5 times in his last 12 start's and do you think John said to Washakie's owner's were gonna team drive so Mr Feelgood can win and we'll run for place money

Washakie has sat in the death twice in his last 12 starts......
1 was a Tuesday outside Destreos........
The 2nd was when he landed there not cos he wanted to be there.

You wouldnt know what "John" is thinking.....Only one of his horses was gunna get a sit behind Smokin Up.
Mr Feelgood drew 1 and if he led I bet Washakie wouldnt have been outside him.

[mightymo]

Washakie has sat in the death twice in his last 12 starts......
1 was a Tuesday outside Destreos........
The 2nd was when he landed there not cos he wanted to be there.

You wouldnt know what "John" is thinking.....Only one of his horses was gunna get a sit behind Smokin Up.
Mr Feelgood drew 1 and if he led I bet Washakie wouldnt have been outside him.

so where would you think Washakie should have been in the run. Would you have preferred he restrained back to last or alternatively took sit on a 250/1 pop??

Washakie applied no pressure to Smoken Up. In fact, Lance has publicly come out and said he drove a bad race in that he went too slow on Smoken Up and that he should have made it a much tougher staying test...

[Big Max]

Brilliantly said mightymo, Washakie is a true grand circuit contender and (IMO) the best place for him FROM THE DRAW was to sit quietly in the death.30 sec quarters in this grade is comfortable for a horse like Washakie.

There will always be conspiracy theories when a trainer has more than one runner especially when they are as successful as the McCarthy team.Starts getting a little annoying after a while.

[Greg Hando]

Washakie has sat in the death twice in his last 12 starts......
1 was a Tuesday outside Destreos........
The 2nd was when he landed there not cos he wanted to be there.

You wouldnt know what "John" is thinking.....Only one of his horses was gunna get a sit behind Smokin Up.
Mr Feelgood drew 1 and if he led I bet Washakie wouldnt have been outside him.

On Harnessweb it say's he was in thr death seat on 9-7-11,16-7-11,23-8-11 and 22-10-11 only saying what i read
and if Mr Feelgood had led Smoken Up would have been in the death with Washakie in the 1 x 1 i reckon

[Thevoiceofreason]

As always happy to be corrected biggest career win, the Truer, sat in the death.

You just got to love a conspiracy theory.

[strong persuader]

Group winner in Melbourne has tested positive to arsenic, used to help horse recover from tough run.
All codes have it just seems more in Harness than gallops at present.
There may be more to this than what appears at first sight, arsenic is a component of ITPP, the drug that is most thought to be the current choice for enhancement of form and supposedly undetectable at this point in time.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/arsenic-drug-for-sale-on-internet/story-fnajufri-1226175635076

[triplev123]

Geeze, that sounds a bit nasty. I wonder where they're getting that information from though?
Nothing that I've ever read about it has ever mentioned Arsenic.
Looking at the chemical formula/structure, which from what I can find is C6H6Na6O21P6, I just can't see where it is/can be represented as a component there either?
Maybe Arsenic, the chemical formula/ structure of which is H3AsO4, is produced/passed from the horse's system as a metabolite of the ITPP, although at this point I can't see how?
Thanks for the story Phil. Interesting stuff.

[triplev123]

I've read over a whole stack of stuff on this drug & still can't see where Arsenic ever comes into play in myo-inositol trispyrophosphate...be it part of the initial structure or a metabolite of/whatever.
At the risk of going the early Crow...right now, I'm thinking that this story, with the Melbourne Racing Carnival in full swing, is a well-timed beat up.
The horse might well have returned an Arsenic positive but that could have come from numerous other sources...and to then link it to myo-inositol trispyrophosphate?
At the moment that seems a HUGE leap of faith to me.
Maybe they had a whack with the ITPP test and it has, for want of a better word 'malfunctioned'? & instead of picking on the Phosphorous aspects of ITPP, it is picking up on the presence of Arsenic (which could be from Jurocyl or similar?) Arsenic & Phosphorous are pretty closely situated on the periodic table....there are only 3 bonded atoms of Oxygen vs 3 bonded atoms of Hydrogen between them. The test is in it's infancy and maybe it is not bowling onto a length? Fascinating stuff. All will be revealed in due course no doubt.

[triplev123]

Just read a press release from the TB's....
To me, the way it reads, the Arsenic positive & the ITPP testing are two seperate things.
First off it mentions a horse came back with an Arsenic positive that has been sent to HK for confirmation...and then it goes on to quote Terry Bailey talking about ITPP testing. Nowhere can I see where anyone has specifically linked the two....except Courtney Walsh.
I think our intrepid journo from The Australian has put 2 & 2 together and ended up with 5.
Also, contrary to her headline and to everything I've been able to locate...ITPP is NOT an Arsenic drug. I can't find so much as a single reference to it as such. It might be there but it is well hidden if it is. The funniest part is that if it's an error then the SAME ERROR is being repeated all over the Internet all over the world by hack journo after hack journo that don't know any better & just accept as gospel the work of others & duly copy it.

[2minuteman]

Very good comment.Check MEDIA WATCH and the re-reporting of the man eaten by Spiders.

[Flashing Red]

Just read a press release from the TB's....
To me, the way it reads, the Arsenic positive & the ITPP testing are two seperate things.
First off it mentions a horse came back with an Arsenic positive that has been sent to HK for confirmation...and then it goes on to quote Terry Bailey talking about ITPP testing. Nowhere can I see where anyone has specifically linked the two....except Courtney Walsh.
I think our intrepid journo from The Australian has put 2 & 2 together and ended up with 5.
Also, contrary to her headline and to everything I've been able to locate...ITPP is NOT an Arsenic drug. I can't find so much as a single reference to it as such. It might be there but it is well hidden if it is. The funniest part is that if it's an error then the SAME ERROR is being repeated all over the Internet all over the world by hack journo after hack journo that don't know any better & just accept as gospel the work of others & duly copy it.

You don't have to tell me, I agree. Isn't the first (nor will it be the last) time a journo screws up.

[strong persuader]

Just read a press release from the TB's....
To me, the way it reads, the Arsenic positive & the ITPP testing are two seperate things.
First off it mentions a horse came back with an Arsenic positive that has been sent to HK for confirmation...and then it goes on to quote Terry Bailey talking about ITPP testing. Nowhere can I see where anyone has specifically linked the two....except Courtney Walsh.
I think our intrepid journo from The Australian has put 2 & 2 together and ended up with 5.
Also, contrary to her headline and to everything I've been able to locate...ITPP is NOT an Arsenic drug. I can't find so much as a single reference to it as such. It might be there but it is well hidden if it is. The funniest part is that if it's an error then the SAME ERROR is being repeated all over the Internet all over the world by hack journo after hack journo that don't know any better & just accept as gospel the work of others & duly copy it.
Good work Jaimie. I had done some research myself, but probably not to the same degree, and was coming to the same conclusion. Not sure who said it, but there is a quote that goes something like........"To not read the newspapers is uninformed, to read the newspapers is misinformed."