The smoken up saga

[barny]

As an avid follower of australasian harness racing i just want to say that i find the above saga, just another disgracefull episode, in a sport that sadly, is on its knees.
The fact that mr justice has been caught out is shocking in itself, but as with every sport be it cycling, athletics, etc etc, hes claims he is not guilty! And he is blaming security being slack as the culprit.

On top of that, the whole sad affair has dragged on for months, waiting for an outcome, and the findings finally being released prior to the showpiece of nz harness racing the nz cup, by an inept and pointless nz harness racing integrity unit, great forethought!

Over the last few years, there has been the blue magic disgrace, which resulted in suspensions at the highest level, and two people taking there own lives, geoff small abusing everyone except the dog and he probably kicked it! And now this bullshit, its a joke and the people involved in the industry are leaving the sport in droves, the general public look on in amazement at a sport so deeply corrupt right to its core, with trainers ,drivers ,and even stewards involved in the fixing of races, that at the end of the day, it is simply not worth being involved.
A sport that i was proud to follow and be involved in , is quite simply a sad shadow of its former glorious self.

[triplev123]

Let's not get too flaggelatory there trooper.
Former glorious self? Geeze, obviously memory serves to significantly soften the jagged edges of a lot of things.
I've been around in Harness Racing since I was about 5yrs old and directly involved as a Breeder & periodically an Owner since I could first legally do so, which was back around 1986.
As a general comment...and despite the disgraceful & without question dastardly deeds that came to light in August or thereabouts of this year, the Sport is still way, way cleaner today that it ever was at any stage in the past. No question in my mind whatsoever.
One often celebrated now passed on horseman used to pre race tube horses with Laudanum whilst ON COURSE at Fairfield and Richmond for crying out loud. He had a Catholic Priest who was also a mad Punter & he used to stand at the end of the rows keeping an eye out for the Stewards.
There were serious crims running a number of Drivers back in the late 1960's to early/mid/late 1970's and quite a significant proportion of them most definitely saw the early to mid even towards the late 1980's. In keeping with that influence, the amount of black money that was washed through various Bookies back then would no doubt have been quite a staggering thing to behold.

I'm not suggesting today's racing is absolutely squeaky clean by any means because the fact is, wherever there is money there is always going to be those who seek to find an edge in order to get their hands on it. Rightly or wrongly, it is human nature...and gambling in particular attracts all kinds as you'd know.

That being said, I would also swear on a stack of Bibles higher than the roof of my house that today's nefarious behaviour, as hard to cop as it may be, is comparably verging Girl Scout stuff as compared to various forebears. Fact is that some of the things, many of the things, that used to happen years ago were pretty damned dreadful...but, for one reason or another...they simply never saw the light of day. I believe, though I have no real proof, that a number of those in regulatory roles at the time were either compromised in one way or another or they lacked the will to swim against the tide despite knowing things were not on the up & up...or they lacked the technology & resources now available to their modern day counterparts.

Fast forward to recent events and there is a signficant case to be made, via Lance losing that race as a result of a DMSO positive, to suggest that the drug testing regime under which Australian & NZ horsemen now operate, has effectively gone off the deep end. It has gone too far the other way, so far as to have become absurd, ridiculous. DMSO is not a performance enhancing substance. That anyone should ever think of it as such merely serves to underline just how far we have to go as far as educating the Industry on such matters.

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Let's not get too flaggelatory there trooper.
Former glorious self? Geeze, obviously memory serves to significantly soften the jagged edges of a lot of things.
I've been around in Harness Racing since I was about 5yrs old and directly involved as a Breeder & periodically an Owner since I could first legally do so, which was back around 1986.
As a general comment...and despite the disgraceful & without question dastardly deeds that came to light in August or thereabouts of this year, the Sport is still way, way cleaner today that it ever was at any stage in the past. No question in my mind whatsoever.
One often celebrated now passed on horseman used to pre race tube horses with Laudanum whilst ON COURSE at Fairfield and Richmond for crying out loud. He had a Catholic Priest who was also a mad Punter & he used to stand at the end of the rows keeping an eye out for the Stewards.
There were serious crims running a number of Drivers back in the late 1960's to early/mid/late 1970's and quite a significant proportion of them most definitely saw the early to mid even towards the late 1980's. In keeping with that influence, the amount of black money that was washed through various Bookies back then would no doubt have been quite a staggering thing to behold.

I'm not suggesting today's racing is absolutely squeaky clean by any means because the fact is, wherever there is money there is always going to be those who seek to find an edge in order to get their hands on it. Rightly or wrongly, it is human nature...and gambling in particular attracts all kinds as you'd know.

That being said, I would also swear on a stack of Bibles higher than the roof of my house that today's nefarious behaviour, as hard to cop as it may be, is comparably verging Girl Scout stuff as compared to various forebears. Fact is that some of the things, many of the things, that used to happen years ago were pretty damned dreadful...but, for one reason or another...they simply never saw the light of day. I believe, though I have no real proof, that a number of those in regulatory roles at the time were either compromised in one way or another or they lacked the will to swim against the tide despite knowing things were not on the up & up...or they lacked the technology & resources now available to their modern day counterparts.

Fast forward to recent events and there is a signficant case to be made, via Lance losing that race as a result of a DMSO positive, to suggest that the drug testing regime under which Australian & NZ horsemen now operate, has effectively gone off the deep end. It has gone too far the other way, so far as to have become absurd, ridiculous. DMSO is not a performance enhancing substance. That anyone should ever think of it as such merely serves to underline just how far we have to go as far as educating the Industry on such matters.

Spot on VVV. It also reminds me of a story I heard years ago, of a current trainers father from my area. This particular trainer had a horse running at Terang one night over 40 years ago, and was primed (wink wink), to run a big race. Well the horse duly saluted, and once off the track, was bundled into the float (with the gear still on) and taken home by every back road imaginable home to Ballarat. I think with modern technology the way it is. Not much will get through to the keeper these days, and maybe the current saga's are a timely wake up call to the industry as a whole, to not be complacent.

[barny]

Point taken,
however as history shows we should learn from our mistakes,
something we have neglected to do time and again in this industry.
I understand in the old days things may have happened that were shocking, but the only things that have changed, are technology, and the substances used.
Those characters are still in the game,and are crippling it.
Attendances have dropped so much, that its only the diehards on course, and the commiteemen enjoying free food and drink.
Young people, the future of the sport,have not been encouraged into the industry, which was so obviously needed years ago, both as patrons or employees.
Sure the off course turnovers are ok and are up because of tv coverage, but compare the sport to what else is available now and its no contest. Sport betting has exploded, and will continue to do so, so many other options are available for the $ , harness racing has missed the boat completly, most nz clubs are bordering on insolvency, stakes are in decline, the amount of foals on the ground is down 20% and most people involved, are struggling to stay afloat.
The people i have spoken to are continually saying it is virtually impossible to survive, the list of people in the industry who have walked away is staggering, and will continue unless we get some forward thinking administrators in charge instead of the grey suit brigades entrenched in their presidents room, looking down on joe public.

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Point taken,
however as history shows we should learn from our mistakes,
something we have neglected to do time and again in this industry.
I understand in the old days things may have happened that were shocking, but the only things that have changed, are technology, and the substances used.
Those characters are still in the game,and are crippling it.
Attendances have dropped so much, that its only the diehards on course, and the commiteemen enjoying free food and drink.
Young people, the future of the sport,have not been encouraged into the industry, which was so obviously needed years ago, both as patrons or employees.
Sure the off course turnovers are ok and are up because of tv coverage, but compare the sport to what else is available now and its no contest. Sport betting has exploded, and will continue to do so, so many other options are available for the $ , harness racing has missed the boat completly, most nz clubs are bordering on insolvency, stakes are in decline, the amount of foals on the ground is down 20% and most people involved, are struggling to stay afloat.
The people i have spoken to are continually saying it is virtually impossible to survive, the list of people in the industry who have walked away is staggering, and will continue unless we get some forward thinking administrators in charge instead of the grey suit brigades entrenched in their presidents room, looking down on joe public.
Do you think the GFC and the September/Febuary earthquakes may have something to do with it as well?

[barny]

These wonderfull old stories are fantastic, but are just memories of a corrupt sport then, as it still is now, you are naive and living in the past to think its any different now.


spot on vvv. It also reminds me of a story i heard years ago, of a current trainers father from my area. This particular trainer had a horse running at terang one night over 40 years ago, and was primed (wink wink), to run a big race. Well the horse duly saluted, and once off the track, was bundled into the float (with the gear still on) and taken home by every back road imaginable home to ballarat. I think with modern technology the way it is. Not much will get through to the keeper these days, and maybe the current saga's are a timely wake up call to the industry as a whole, to not be complacent.

[barny]

Certainly but the rot was there ages ago those issues have just sped up the issue.

[triplev123]

Barny, for the sake of the vast majority of honest, hard working, well meaning Industry participants that's THE one thing that I live in hope of...that one day our beloved Industry will learn from its mistakes. I try (admittedly, not always successfully) to keep my eyes on the horizon & not look at the crap at our feet.

[gutwagon]

One thing is for sure, 2011 has not been a good year for the image of our sport. At least I am sure my horses will race free of prohibited substances and thats the only way I would have it !

[Viv Strangman]

The presense of DMSO on its own is very surprising. Everyone in this industry knows that it is tested for and to present a horse with DMSO in its system in 2011 would seem like professional suicide by Lance. It just doesnt make sense unless the trace amounts found were present in something else that Lance gave to Smoken Up. I am aware that DMSO is present in trace amounts for instance in ITPP to mention just one possability. That would seem far more likely than the random contamination explanation being offered up at present

[strong persuader]

I too think that we are not seeing anything worse today than what has been seen before and unfortunately, will probably see again. Wherever money is involved, so will people who are willing to do anything to get it.

As far as attendances, I listened to a radio bit today about the current NBA dispute in the US, it spoke of the players wanting more than they currently get whilst the team owners are arguing that falling attendances make it necessary that the players accept less. So harness racing isn't the only sport that is being plagued by non attendance at regular meetings. Nowadays it would be only the exceptional event or horses that will make people want to go to a track, the Trots is no longer the only place to be on a Sat night in the bush or a Friday in the Sydney area, or whatever night a particular club may have ran their meetings on back in the heyday of oncourse attendance.

I spoke with a fellow today who would probably talk to more participants in a week than I do in a year and his words were very comforting, that 95% of people in the game are good and honest and that the 5% who aren't should be weeded out and thrown out with the rubbish was the general consensus he felt amongst people. I agree wholeheartedly, with only one caution, continue to be on guard as once the current bad apples are shown the door the next lot will sneak in looking to pick up where they left off!

[triplev123]

The presense of DMSO on its own is very surprising. Everyone in this industry knows that it is tested for and to present a horse with DMSO in its system in 2011 would seem like professional suicide by Lance. It just doesnt make sense unless the trace amounts found were present in something else that Lance gave to Smoken Up. I am aware that DMSO is present in trace amounts for instance in ITPP to mention just one possability. That would seem far more likely than the random contamination explanation being offered up at present

[VVV] BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Incorrect answer.
Looks like it's back to Chemistry 101 for you, 'Viv'. http://chemistry.about.com/od/homeworkhelp/a/chemistry101.htm

DMSO is NOT present in ITPP & despite claims made in that erroneous story in The Australian of a week or so back, nor is Arsenic for that matter.

[Flashing Red]

[VVV] BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Incorrect answer.
Looks like it's back to Chemistry 101 for you, 'Viv'. http://chemistry.about.com/od/homeworkhelp/a/chemistry101.htm

DMSO is NOT present in ITPP & despite claims made in that erroneous story in The Australian of a week or so back, nor is Arsenic for that matter.

Don't worry, over the next 12 months everyone will link everything to ITPP :rolleyes:

[triplev123]

Don't worry, over the next 12 months everyone will link everything to ITPP :rolleyes:


[VVV] Indeed. I'm yet to see Ms. Courtney Walsh of The Australian print a correction to her piece of pre-Melbourne Cup sensationalism. The standard of Journalism at The Australian is usually a lot higher.

[ross sugars]

i have not read the transcript but i have no reason not to believe the smoken up camp how can the control sample be positive to dmso and the nz authorities come to this result the control MUST BE NEGATIVE end of story

[Thevoiceofreason]

i have not read the transcript but i have no reason not to believe the smoken up camp how can the control sample be positive to dmso and the nz authorities come to this result the control MUST BE NEGATIVE end of story

Ross I have not previously commented on this saga but as you say if the control is positive or showing any signs of DMSO, that should be case over with no positive finding.

If I started to list the precedents this thread would go on for pages with just the list.

[teecee]

The primary sample is positive,25mg/ltre
The secondary sample is positive 25mg/ltre
The control sample initially showed a positive but after the test equipment was cleaned and the control sample retested NEGATIVE.
this was considered contamination of the testing equipment rather than the control sample positive.
This issue was not contested by defence


i have not read the transcript but i have no reason not to believe the smoken up camp how can the control sample be positive to dmso and the nz authorities come to this result the control MUST BE NEGATIVE end of story

[p plater]

teecee. you are obviously very close to this case