Popular Alm FFA at Melton tonight

[triplev123]

It's a 30k race so not exactly huge bucks but just the same...the winner's apparently exempt from the ballot for the 425k Victoria Cup & so I reckon you've got to tune in at 8:24 to watch Bitobliss do his thing.
The question is, can he hold out Jrn and ITMQ? You'd have to think he will come out postmarked urgent. Promises to be a fascinating battle.

[aussiebreno]

Melpark Major :cool: I don't think he can win but will be cheering for him.

[mightymo]

It's a 30k race so not exactly huge bucks but just the same...the winner's apparently exempt from the ballot for the 425k Victoria Cup & so I reckon you've got to tune in at 8:24 to watch Bitobliss do his thing.
The question is, can he hold out Jrn and ITMQ? You'd have to think he will come out postmarked urgent. Promises to be a fascinating battle.

Id be very surprised if ITMQ even tries to lead. I reckon MM will lead early and then possibly hand up to Bitobliss

[triplev123]

Nathan Jack in the bike too Harvey, I forgot Jrn was sidelined. How much early speed has Bitobliss got? I am ashamed to say that I don't know.

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

IMTMQ straight to the lead, MM on his back and BOB in the chair.
1. ITMQ
2. MM
3. BOB
4. Decorated Jasper getting home late Brenno!

[Big Max]

mares race tonight at Melton was one of the best races i've seen in a very long time...........very exciting stuff!!!

[Just Saying]

If they had of gone any slower in the Poppie I could have run up beside they leader and shouted GO FASTER!!! Crikey.

[aussiebreno]

Melpark Major :cool: I don't think he can win but will be cheering for him.
I think I spent more energy in the final 100m then he did the whole race. Just getting my breath back now actually.


IMTMQ straight to the lead, MM on his back and BOB in the chair.
1. ITMQ
2. MM
3. BOB
4. Decorated Jasper getting home late Brenno!
Don't know what your opinion of the run was but I reckon you could not have asked for more. Good to see after the last couple.

[A BIT DUSTY]

If they had of gone any slower in the Poppie I could have run up beside they leader and shouted GO FASTER!!! Crikey.


Just goes to show you don't have to run the first half in 57 to have a good exciting and close finish. (TAKE NOTE FLASHING RED)

[Starship Captain]

Enter Flashing Red

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M&feature=related

[aussiebreno]

I see they have queried the driving tactics of Nathan Jack on ITMQ. I would hope it's because he was given a quiet run leading up to Cranbourne and Vic Cup rather than expecting that the horse should have made an earlier move.

[triplev123]

They told the Stewards before the race they were going back, he went back, sat in and did exactly as they said they would and as Snr told him too and they still queried the drive????
I saw an interview late last night from GP and Snr said to Wes Cameron that Nathan Jack had just followed his instructions and he admitted that he might have hamstrung him a bit because if he had ignored them and gone earlier Snr thought he probably would have won. I don't think they're too worried though as Snr made it clear their eyes are on the Cranbourne & Victoria Cups. ITMQ went HUGE. Off the track and home in 53.2 & 26.0.

[Just Saying]

I think the issue was that he may have waited too long to make his run in a slowly run race. They are VERY strict on odds on favourites being seen to go above and beyond the call in order to win regardless of future races. I'm pretty sure that driving instructions can't be used as an excuse in this case. Simply pull the horse out a bit earlier so the last quarter isn't a low 26.

[Flashing Red]

Just goes to show you don't have to run the first half in 57 to have a good exciting and close finish. (TAKE NOTE FLASHING RED)

Maybe you should take note a little more about what I am saying, I like true run races because I feel they are fairer overall. I like my trials to be run at trial speed to ease a horse into races and races to be run faster than trials, as it should be. Has nothing to do with entertainment.

[A BIT DUSTY]

Maybe you should take note a little more about what I am saying, I like true run races because I feel they are fairer overall. I like my trials to be run at trial speed to ease a horse into races and races to be run faster than trials, as it should be. Has nothing to do with entertainment.

The leader running 30's quarters and leader's back horse (hasn't spent a penny) sprint lanes Him, that's real FAIR.

[Flashing Red]

If the leader is good enough, the one on its back (or anything else) won't run it down 9 times out of 10 IMHO :) If its about tactics as you have also put it, that said leader should hand up to put the horse on its back 3 pegs. Have seen a number of horses that would otherwise lead do this as a tactical move. Sure racing isn't quite as tactical as the good old show days (they were exciting races) but IMHO genuine races (not slow or record breaking fast) are the fairest of all. :)

IMHO there has to be some line drawn, otherwise if you get a leader and a death seat horse that will not hand up not matter what (this is more relevant to Australian racing, I feel the NZ drivers are more gentleman-like), they could go run a half in 15 if they wanted to - this is one of many examples. Exceptionally slow races can also be dangerous, a number of horses can pull that otherwise would not, they can bring themselves or others down by clipping a wheel or falling over after choking off.... I could go on. I have nothing against slow run races, I just hate races where they WALK, and these sectional rules I feel are in place to stop WALKING. Does that make sense? :)

[Greg Hando]

I thought the race was like watching paint dry the mares race was a real good race to watch

[Flashing Red]

I thought the race was like watching paint dry the mares race was a real good race to watch

The mares race was excellent to watch. Yeehaa! :)

[A BIT DUSTY]

The mares race was excellent to watch. Yeehaa! :)

Wait a minute Flashing red , didn't you say a couple of threads ago. it's not about entertainment, sounds like your having a bit each way now, yeehaa indeed .

[aussiebreno]

I thought the race was like watching paint dry

Surely you don't mean that.

[Big Max]

Tactical driving at it's very best! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Flashing Red]

Wait a minute Flashing red , didn't you say a couple of threads ago. it's not about entertainment, sounds like your having a bit each way now, yeehaa indeed .


Maybe you should take note a little more about what I am saying, I like true run races because I feel they are fairer overall. I like my trials to be run at trial speed to ease a horse into races and races to be run faster than trials, as it should be. Has nothing to do with entertainment.

Read what I have written. I was talking about race times vs fairness. That is completely different from comentating on a race spectator wise. Races with a lot of moves are more exciting for me, personally, to watch - whether they are slow run or world record time... I was talking about two different things.

[A BIT DUSTY]

Read what I have written. I was talking about race times vs fairness. That is completely different from comentating on a race spectator wise. Races with a lot of moves are more exciting for me, personally, to watch - whether they are slow run or world record time... I was talking about two different things.

Flashing Red You keep saying read what you have written ,but you keep contradicting youself in one thread you admonish me when I said a race was exciting when it was a slow 1st half next thing your YEEHAAA a race that was run the way you like it, wasn't that what I was doing when you bellowed " Its not about entertainment " talk about a HYPOCRITE. You keep banging on about how a true run race is fairer would you care to enlighten us on what you base this opinion on,

Is it fair on the leader or death seat horse's to do all the work for some weak little sit sprinter to have the last shot at them
is it fair on the the owner that is forking out to feed these horses so they can be cannon fodder for others, surely they are entitled to prize money as well.
Is it fair on the one paced horse that draws the back row and needs a 32's quarter to get around to the breeze.
Surely your not implying that is fairer for the punter because you don't know which horse the punter has backed , he might be on the one up front doing the walking so he's happy.
You are crying over the race were Amy Tubbs walked them and got home, well done to her ,she got the cash , but nooooo you think she should have ran a half in 1 min or better and hand the race to I.T.M.Q. OH that's FAIR .
Do you know when it's fair, when all the horses are behind the gate and then it's up to horse and driver to decide the the race . The best horse may not always win "that would be great wouldn't it" that's why it's called a race . So please Flashing tell us all what YOUR idea of FAIR is.


Just as a side to Gregs story about a judge over turning a slow section fine or suspension , I once told a former Chief Steward off the record that if I ever copped a fine for slow section's I would fight it in court as I didn't believe there would be a judge in the country that would not throw such a stupid rule out. I told him that purely on the rule forbidding time pieces being banned and then them fining you for not adhering to certain time's would be enough without the fact there was another 9 drivers in the race allowing you to do same , His comment was I would not have a hope of winning such a case . Well guess what 3 weeks later I run the 1st half in 66 AND NOT A WORD WAS SAID TO ME . Maybe this ex stipe knew of the case at the Medowlands or maybe he just didn't want to see what would happen.

[Greg Hando]

Surely you don't mean that.
Yep sure do Brendan slow lead then a sprint up the straight the horses back in the field were never going to catch the winner with slow sectional's

[Flashing Red]

Flashing Red You keep saying read what you have written ,but you keep contradicting youself in one thread you admonish me when I said a race was exciting when it was a slow 1st half next thing your YEEHAAA a race that was run the way you like it, wasn't that what I was doing when you bellowed " Its not about entertainment " talk about a HYPOCRITE. You keep banging on about how a true run race is fairer would you care to enlighten us on what you base this opinion on,

Is it fair on the leader or death seat horse's to do all the work for some weak little sit sprinter to have the last shot at them
is it fair on the the owner that is forking out to feed these horses so they can be cannon fodder for others, surely they are entitled to prize money as well.
Is it fair on the one paced horse that draws the back row and needs a 32's quarter to get around to the breeze.
Surely your not implying that is fairer for the punter because you don't know which horse the punter has backed , he might be on the one up front doing the walking so he's happy.
You are crying over the race were Amy Tubbs walked them and got home, well done to her ,she got the cash , but nooooo you think she should have ran a half in 1 min or better and hand the race to I.T.M.Q. OH that's FAIR .
Do you know when it's fair, when all the horses are behind the gate and then it's up to horse and driver to decide the the race . The best horse may not always win "that would be great wouldn't it" that's why it's called a race . So please Flashing tell us all what YOUR idea of FAIR is.


Just as a side to Gregs story about a judge over turning a slow section fine or suspension , I once told a former Chief Steward off the record that if I ever copped a fine for slow section's I would fight it in court as I didn't believe there would be a judge in the country that would not throw such a stupid rule out. I told him that purely on the rule forbidding time pieces being banned and then them fining you for not adhering to certain time's would be enough without the fact there was another 9 drivers in the race allowing you to do same , His comment was I would not have a hope of winning such a case . Well guess what 3 weeks later I run the 1st half in 66 AND NOT A WORD WAS SAID TO ME . Maybe this ex stipe knew of the case at the Medowlands or maybe he just didn't want to see what would happen.

No one in the past 12 months has had any trouble comprehending me or thought that my posts were contradictory until you came here, just dwell on that for a couple of minutes if you can. Quite humorous that you are also now putting words into my mouth re Amy Tubbs drive which I have actually not comentated on. So since I have already clarified myself on a number of instances and you have nothing new to say, I actually have nothing else to contribute to this discussion. I will always agree to disagree, but I take exception to you calling me a hypocrit :)

[aussiebreno]

Yep sure do Brendan slow lead then a sprint up the straight the horses back in the field were never going to catch the winner with slow sectional's
I get that it wasn't the most entertaining race but to say you'd rather watch paint dry than a Group 3 is quite bizarre for someone with 349 posts on this forum. It's like that kid in each neighbourhood who took his bat and ball and left.*


*That kid in my neighbourhood could have been me. Cricket just wasn't my game!

[A BIT DUSTY]

Read what I have written. I was talking about race times vs fairness. That is completely different from comentating on a race spectator wise. Races with a lot of moves are more exciting for me, personally, to watch - whether they are slow run or world record time... I was talking about two different things.

I know it must be a shock to have someone query your post, but you still didn't explain how you equate True run races to FAIRNESS. I Was waiting with great expectation but your wisdom was not forth coming.

Once a again you seem to contradict yourself when you say you think races should be run at a true pace, and then claim races with a lot of moves are more exciting for you to watch,The normal pattern is In a fast run race there are virtually no moves ,they stay in the running line until the quarter, were as in a slow run affair there are moves galore. Make up your mind.

[triplev123]

Don't start him on 2yo racing Tahn.
It'll be like tossing Handsome Pete a quarter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc5swu54aPs ;););)

[A BIT DUSTY]

Yep sure do Brendan slow lead then a sprint up the straight the horses back in the field were never going to catch the winner with slow sectional's

Hi Greg I must have been watching a different race to you. The race I watched the second horse" who got beat a lip: came from last ,and it is generally excepted that had N Jack went a little earlier I.T.M.Q wins.. also I don't know if you realised that there was only 10 meters between 1st and last , which would indicate that every horse had their chance

[A BIT DUSTY]

Don't start him on 2yo racing Tahn.
It'll be like tossing Hamdsome Pete a quarter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc5swu54aPs ;););)

Oh it's so good to hear from you Jamie , when you hadn't posted for 3 minutes or so I thought something awful must have happened to you , I quickly ruled out that you had fallen out of a gig because As I said before I doubt you have ever sat in one.

Eagerly await your next awe inspiring post zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[triplev123]

Your rapier like wit is too much for me Denny.

[A BIT DUSTY]

Your rapier like wit is too much for me Denny.

Lighten up Jamie and don't take yourself tooo seriously, It's all good banter , I F WE ALL HAD THE SAME VIEWS ON EVERYTHING IT WOULD BE A BORING OLD WORLD.

You have a good night now cheers

[triplev123]

I must apologise for my attitude Denny. I have run out of Coffee.

[A BIT DUSTY]

I must apologise for my attitude Denny. I have run out of Coffee.


No worries Jamie Just ease up on using words like RAPIER I had to go look for a dictionary .

[Greg Hando]

Hi Greg I must have been watching a different race to you. The race I watched the second horse" who got beat a lip: came from last ,and it is generally excepted that had N Jack went a little earlier I.T.M.Q wins.. also I don't know if you realised that there was only 10 meters between 1st and last , which would indicate that every horse had their chance
And why do you think their was 10 mts between 1st and last, horse's of comparable ability walk and sprint home and finish together you knew the winner after the first half sectional's were given over in the run perhap's they were forgetting the ability of the old horse in front and his ability to sprint hard for a half his form was very strong and only got beat by Smoken Up 7 mts coming home in 54.9 a few week's back so how did they think they would catch him after a walk and the horse who ran 2nd is an exceptional animal and was entitled to finish up the front on sheer class alone anyway it is only my opinion and still didn't think it was an exciting race to watch.

[Just Saying]

...still didn't think it was an exciting race to watch.
I can't comment on that as I fell asleep at about the 800m mark.

[A BIT DUSTY]

I can't comment on that as I fell asleep at about the 800m mark.


Greg and Scott you guy's seem to forget it's not about YOU its a competition were tactics play a huge roll. Connections of I.T,M.Q advised stewards they were going back , so what else do you think Amy Tubbs was going to do carve out a 57 half or something. She drove a brilliant tactical race and still only won by a head or so . To bad you fell asleep Scott as you missed a very exciting last half.

[Gtrain]

Greg and Scott you guy's seem to forget it's not about YOU its a competition were tactics play a huge roll. Connections of I.T,M.Q advised stewards they were going back , so what else do you think Amy Tubbs was going to do carve out a 57 half or something. She drove a brilliant tactical race and still only won by a head or so . To bad you fell asleep Scott as you missed a very exciting last half.

I'm sure that if Scott owned MM he would be looking to sack Amy due to making that race so boring. God forbid a driver drives for the best interests of the horse.

[Just Saying]

I'm sure that if Scott owned MM he would be looking to sack Amy due to making that race so boring. God forbid a driver drives for the best interests of the horse.
Gentleman please! Just as Amy and her fellow drivers did what was in THERE best interests Greg and I respond to the race in relation to OUR best interests. They want the win. We want the excitement. It's called being a normal self interested human. Chill out!

[Just Saying]

p.s I don't actually have a problem with Amy's drive. I thought Nathan could've been a little more pro-active. But again that's from a punters/spectators point of view not a connections point of view because sadly I don't own the horse. :(

[Flashing Red]

Don't start him on 2yo racing Tahn.
It'll be like tossing Handsome Pete a quarter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc5swu54aPs ;););)

Oh, don't worry, he was put in the "too hard basket" yesterday :) Keyboard warriors... :rolleyes:

[A BIT DUSTY]

Oh, don't worry, he was put in the "too hard basket" yesterday :) Keyboard warriors... :rolleyes:

Dearest Flashing Red

I hope by this post you don't mean we won't clash horn's again,cause I love a good stoush. Now before you get all huffy I would like to clear a few thing's up. Now firstly you mentioned that you had been posting on here for 12 month's without anyone challenging you. I already know this because I have been an avid reader of this site for aprox that time, and have enjoyed reading your and most of the other regular forum users ( excluding the serial pest Ring man of course) thoughts . I generally agree with most of your post and some I don't , but as you may have noticed I am filthy on both the slow sections rule and also the change of tactic rule, the reason I hate both of these rules are because I believe they take away a huge amount of the tactical part of driving. I would ask you to tell me of any other competitive sport in the world that has rules were you have to tell your opponents what your tactics are before the race , and then the leader of the race is suppose to run at a certain time, I honestly can not think of one sport that has one of them let alone both. Can you imagine the jockeys in the Melbourne Cup being told the leader has to run furlongs in even time ( 12 SECS I think) we would the laughing stock of world racing, Can you imagine Queensland having to tell N.S.W what tactics they were going to use in the state of origin. I know it is all to do with the punter , I have been a punter since I was 15 and have done more money than I would like to think of , but I have always known that I was gambling and that I was taking an informed view of how a race might be run , but if it didn't pan out that way I copped it fair and square because I knew it was a punt.
I know the punting dollar is important to the survival of our sport , but I feel with these two rules they are pandering to much to the punter.

So when I read your post where you were giving the opinion that fast run races were fairer I saw red and went on the attack witch is a bad habit of mine so I do apologise if I offended you, but you hit a raw nerve.

Hope you take me out of the " too hard basket" soon as I enjoy a good debate

Cheers Denny

[eliteblood]

I'm with you Denny.
Why should you have to disclose your tactics to the opposition before the race. Who knows beforehand what is going to happen in any case that totally throws plan A out the window. A good driver needs the flexibility to respond to situations as they arise without being hamstrung by what he has declared to be his tactics before the horses are even geared up.
Why also should the lead driver be required to drive his horse at a pace that is detrimental to his chances of winning the race. IMO, Amy Tubbs drove the correct race on Melpark Major by getting in two very soft quarters when the other drivers allowed it. She did what she is supposed to do - gave her horse the best opportunity to win the race for her owners and for the punters who backed her horse. If that doesn't suit the driver of ITMQ or any other horse, too bad, the ball is in their court to do something about it. If the authorities want "fairer" racing then they need to continue the move to bigger tracks and sprint lanes. It is much harder to slow the speed on bigger tracks where you don't have the protection of a turn coming up every couple of hundred metres.

[strong persuader]

I agree with all but one thing that Denny and Trevor have said. Drivers shouldn't have to advise their tactics beforehand, sectional times should be abolished, sprint lanes should never be built.

[A BIT DUSTY]

Can I give tell you a little story that tickled my fancy at the time, up here in Newcastle we have an elderly driver that gave the game away several years ago and has recently renewed his licence.
Now I don't want to mention his name but if you follow the game up this way you may work out who I am refering to. He has been training & driving a known front runner and it week after week run along in front at a strong pace often the 1st half in 57 or better over both the mile or 2090 mtrs, he got home a couple of times ,but as he got up in grade more often than not he got run down. His tactics were well known and the other drivers would take hold and sit back and have the last shot at him. Then one knight as was the norm all the fancy runners where dragged back to the rear fully expecting the old fellow to let his horse bowl along. Well the old fellow went to the front alright but ran the 1st half in about 65 and blew them away . I didn't back him but cheered myself hoarse for him as I could appreciate the cleverness of his drive and the lack of ability of his much younger opponents to read the race. He probably copped a fine for slow sectionals but I think he should have been given a bloody medal for his drive.

I'm with you on sprint lanes Phil I don't like them either.

I know I am sounding like a winger but there just my opinions

cheers Denny

[Greg Hando]

Greg and Scott you guy's seem to forget it's not about YOU its a competition were tactics play a huge roll. Connections of I.T,M.Q advised stewards they were going back , so what else do you think Amy Tubbs was going to do carve out a 57 half or something. She drove a brilliant tactical race and still only won by a head or so . To bad you fell asleep Scott as you missed a very exciting last half.

Excuse me for having an opinion Denny. I don't think it has been said anywhere that it is about YOU as you put it and i have never said anything was about me, i was agreeing with some comment's written that to some who watched the race thought it to be a boring race to watch.
I don't punt very much at all (occasionally on my own horse's ) so don't really care who win's most of the time but i like to see a truly run race not walk then a sprint home or use a squib lane to win in some cases.