Bring back the Stand Start for pacers

[Messenger]

After 9yo Love In A Chevy's win tonight at Melton, Lance Justice and Rob Auber were discussing how we can keep old marvels like LIAC racing after they reach their mark. The obvious like Mildura and Claimers came up in the conversation but if you want to keep your horse these are not always an option.

Once upon a time we had Discretionary Handicaps, stand starts of course (which take special training skills in themselves) whereby an honest trier who has not won for a while gets treated kindly by the handicapper - like you see in pro running such as the Stawell Gift
In days gone by the stand starts provided genuine excitement when top horses had to give starts to lesser rivals.

It's demise was IMO pretty much a knee-jerk reaction to Adore Me blowing the start in the 2015 AG Hunter Cup when favourite. I am not convinced they are to the detriment of punting, the quaddies are very popular nowadays and people are looking for big dividends, smart punters in the past factored in whether a horse was a good or bad chance of getting away from the stand and this sometimes made a race a more open event and quaddies a more attractive proposition for a big payout

[Messenger]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it.

Those of us that are rusted on fans who have watched a lot of races (and only get excited by out of the ordinary runs) are in a good position to appreciate when something is not exciting enough (anymore) to recruit a new/young audience. Stand starts with good horses giving lesser lights big starts adds an element of suspense that so many races do not have. Of course you have to think about what is in it for the champions' owners - why should they enter their horses in such events?
Champions in most sports get appearance money - why not harness racing.

Not so much that they just go through the motions but try this idea on:
Mildura (probably not the best example as I hear they are going great guns on all fronts) but thinking of them because of my post about the $20k race last week only attracting Bernie Winkle not Reichman. Say the race was a Stand Start for $10k and they convinced a good horse to come and accept a 50+m penalty for an appearance fee of $5k and another $5k if he/she wins (on top of the 1st prizemoney)

Watching the Elitloppet at 2am in bed on my Iphone, I have to say that not even that big event was as interesting as the OS gallops-hurdles I saw either side of it. I know grass and big prancing horses is a hard act to beat but 1 lap harness racing on a big track, even when the winner comes from behind IS NOT likely to attract us a young audience. We have to think of something else IMO (well my opinion tonight anyway :D)

[Messenger]

Lilac Flash did nothing to help the cause when he knocked down stablemate and favourite Spankem in the Flashing Red Discretionary at Albion Park
Adam Hamilton jumped on it again - see last line
I think you could almost make a case for Spankem to be ruled a non starter as the 10m horse came back onto him
ps 14 starters is pretty ridiculous on a small track

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/hamilton/hamilton-jewels-delight-that-protest-spankems-horror-start/

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=AP050621#APC05062101

[Showgrounds]

Kev, 14 starters is ideal on a 1,000 metre (small -huh?) track for a discretionary handicap as it encourges betting and race moves. The only reason you would reintroduce stands in Victoria. As those who punted Spankem would attest the best horse isn't always the best bet in a standing start race. Which horse do you remember best, Rhett's Law or Popular Alm?

The NZ Trotting Cup is THE premier standing start race. After Self Assured got a jog up start to spring to the lead last year punters, mainly of the flat-footed Copy That, screamed for changes. They got it when the seemingly hapless starter bungled a few more stands and got the chop. None the less the Cup remains that countries greatest race in terms of public interest, on course attendance, betting and as a spectacle.

Apart from horses galloping away, the greatest hindrance against stands are delays in start times and inconsistent starting procedures across states. For mine, the latter two mean stands are finished in Victoria.

[Messenger]

You don't think the excitement of a topliner trying to catch front markers could bring a bit of much needed excitement?
The runs of Akuta and Bettor Twist provide the excitement to our sport but you can go a month(s) without seeing something similar
That is why I would like to see a re-introduction of Stands (even if it is only in Trots) but as I stated above it would take some creative thinking to make it attractive to the topliners owners

[Showgrounds]

Creative thinking = better prize money. No good going around for 25 grand and risking stuffing up a horse's brain. Also, no distance less than 2600 metres to give back markers a decent chance.

NZ FFA aside, New Zealand's three richest open class races are all 3200 metre stands and are no longer handicaps. COVID caused racing to cease for a few months last year which heavily impacted on stakes this season, eg, Harness Jewels were $100k, down from $150. The NZ Cup (540, down from 750), Auckland Cup ($200k, down from $250k) while the Easter Cup remained at $100k. That's the sort of stakes and class of horse I would be thinking.

[Messenger]

Interesting Trev, I thought the Jewels were a bit light on - a lot of fuss for $100k races. I know that is considerable for harness but we are so the poor cousins (not that they would recognize us LOL) when every race at an ordinary Flemington meet the day before was worth more.

[Messenger]

I am not sure I am following Jason Bonnington's (not Adam Hamilton's) reasoning or what point he thinks he is making here

"ROMANTISICING the past is a popular hobby for racing fans.

From a harness racing perspective, older zealots will happily regale younger diehards with wistful stories of how much better the sport was with standing starts and sprint lanes.

Nevertheless, times move on.

On Saturday night at Ballarat, one of few Victorian tracks without an inside exit, seven of the 10 races were won by leaders and five quinellas comprised by horses racing lead-and-trail in transit.

And in the evening’s only stand start, the Hip Pocket & Workwear Safety Coulter Crown, heavily handicapped horses failed to strike a blow.

Some may wish the world would rewind to what it once was, sadly, however, it won’t. "

This isn't a good thing so what is Jason's point - that mobiles and no sprint lane are boring/not working for Ballarat ????????

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/bonnington/bonnington-time-great-sporting-nation-offers-something-for-kate/

The bulk of his article is about Kate Gath not getting the broader recognition she deserves (say like Jamie Kah) - We are like a secret Jason, so few know about us. I have a famous racing brother-in-law that once told me we are pretty much Irrelevant nowadays. He wasn't being nasty just analytical and I cannot really argue his point. People will say how much we contribute to the economy etc etc but you can say the same thing about anything eg Knitting, Pokies, Garbage, ..... We are our own little world.

[aussiebreno]

I am not sure I am following Adam Hamilton's reasoning (or what point he thinks he is making here)

"ROMANTISICING the past is a popular hobby for racing fans.

From a harness racing perspective, older zealots will happily regale younger diehards with wistful stories of how much better the sport was with standing starts and sprint lanes.

Nevertheless, times move on.

On Saturday night at Ballarat, one of few Victorian tracks without an inside exit, seven of the 10 races were won by leaders and five quinellas comprised by horses racing lead-and-trail in transit.

And in the evening’s only stand start, the Hip Pocket & Workwear Safety Coulter Crown, heavily handicapped horses failed to strike a blow.

Some may wish the world would rewind to what it once was, sadly, however, it won’t. "

This isn't a good thing so what is Adam's point - that mobiles and no sprint lane are boring/not working for Ballarat ????????

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/the-forum/bonnington/bonnington-time-great-sporting-nation-offers-something-for-kate/

The bulk of his article is about Kate Gath not getting the broader recognition she deserves (say like Jamie Kah) - We are like a secret Adam, so few know about us. I have a famous racing brother-in-law that once told me we are pretty much Irrelevant nowadays. He wasn't being nasty just analytical and I cannot really argue his point. People will say how much we contribute to the economy etc etc but you can say the same thing about anything eg Knitting, Pokies, Garbage, ..... We are our own little world.
(Adam IMO has been one who has done as much as anybody to try and rectify this but it hasn't happened)

Is his point those at the back can't win so why handicap them even further. It would just give the leaders an even bigger advantage.

[Messenger]

Maybe Brendan. Hey we could do with a few reports on what is news in NSW :)

[Messenger]

A poster has pointed out to me that the Stand/Trot was the closest finish of the night

And what about calling some fans "older zealots"
zealot meaning: a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals

This from one of our main media men!!!

[Showgrounds]

Must try to dig up footage, if it exists, of Popular Alm's second Kilmore Cup win off 35 metres. I have just rediscovered a long misplaced CUB framed advertising print of the great horse in that race. It might compel those too young / ignorant to know how good it is to watch great horses a handicap over big distances in big races. You won't see King of Swing starting at $1.22 from a handicap, that's for sure. You might even get increased betting turnover!

[aussiebreno]

A poster has pointed out to me that the Stand/Trot was the closest finish of the night

And what about calling some fans "older zealots"
zealot meaning: a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals

This from one of our main media men!!!
Which I think goes back to the point had 3rd and 4th horse not been handicapped as much then leader and behind leader may not have won/run2nd?

[aussiebreno]

Must try to dig up footage, if it exists, of Popular Alm's second Kilmore Cup win off 35 metres. I have just rediscovered a long misplaced CUB framed advertising print of the great horse in that race. It might compel those too young / ignorant to know how good it is to watch great horses a handicap over big distances in big races. You won't see King of Swing starting at $1.22 from a handicap, that's for sure. You might even get increased betting turnover!

Most kids watched Cartoons I watched a Popular Alm video on repeat!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNlLhMcTNpY Head to 52mins in for the Kilmore Cup victory.

With advances evening out the breed with fewer outliers like Poppy, and hopefully we are on a more level playing field in regards to chemists, the ability of a horse to give away those big starts in top grade doesn't really seem achievable to me. Whilst I only really follow Riverina and Sat night Menangle over the past couple years it would seem the rating system has done a pretty good job of evening out races in these jurisdictions & therefore I don't think a distance handicap is required. I think you will find betting turnover was crap which is a key reason they don't have them anymore.

[Showgrounds]

I think false starts delaying races and too many horses blowing the start were the root causes of their demise in Victoria. As I said previously NZs three major stands, NZ, Auckland and Easter Cups are 3200 metre free for all's.

[aussiebreno]

I think false starts delaying races and too many horses blowing the start were the root causes of their demise in Victoria. As I said previously NZs three major stands, NZ, Auckland and Easter Cups are 3200 metre free for all's.

Sources say, when compared to CPI, NZ prizemoney has fell 13% in the past 12 years. So not a great case study.

[Messenger]

Most kids watched Cartoons I watched a Popular Alm video on repeat!
These are the only cartoons Breno watched

[Showgrounds]

Sources say, when compared to CPI, NZ prizemoney has fell 13% in the past 12 years. So not a great case study.

It's a damnside better than here mate. Unfortunately the handicapping system stinks ensuring horses are sold as soon as the phone rings.

[aussiebreno]

It's a damnside better than here mate. Unfortunately the handicapping system stinks ensuring horses are sold as soon as the phone rings.

I can't find concrete figures for HRA or HRNSW but HRV has kept up with inflation. Given NSW sold Harold Park I would say they would be ahead too. QLD has drastically improved of late. Gloucester Park prizemoney continues to be strong. Grass isn't always greener.

[Showgrounds]

No but it is grass. Victorian country penalty stake has been stagnant on $7,000, same as Forbury Park which just ran its last meeting. At the bottom of the world Invercargill regularly races for $10k minimum. The North Island is struggling but stakes at Cambridge are back to pre-covid $8k. Alexandra Park is living proof that being competent at running a Trotting club does not automatically make you a successful property developer. Bleeding millions through its own incompetence.