APG 2022 Sales

[Messenger]

https://www.apgold.com.au/sales/2022-sales/

You can view the catalogues online but I must say it is pretty embarrassing to see that they have simply scanned the book catalogue and even my $100 scanner would do a better job (shadows etc)

[Messenger]

I couldn't find anything to really excite me about the Queensland Sale
but I took a quick look at the Melbourne Sale and I noticed a couple of big Captaintreacherous Lots
Lot 180 a ¾ sister to Maajida
Lot 201 a ½ bro to Villagem (also a ¾ brother to Nostra Beach)

[Messenger]

Some other lots of interest in the Melbourne sale:
Lot 147 a ½ sis to Soho Burning Love
Lot 170 a ½ bro to Bondi Lockdown
Lot 177 first foal of A Victor (2nd dam Vertigal)
Lot 185 a full bro to Be Happy Mach plus ½ to others
Lot 196 interesting first foal as the 2nd dam is a ¾ sister to Art Major (but the Bettors Delight/Somebeachsomewhere cross has been underwhelming)
Next installment later

[Messenger]

Lot 199 a ½ sis to Border Control
Lot 207 a full bro to Miss Sangrial and Sangue Reale
Lot 208 a first foal (Captaintreacherous) from a ½ sis to Captain Joy (and all the other Joys)
Lot 213 a 2nd foal (Captaintreacherous) from daughter of Elect To Live
Lot 215 a ½ sis to Menin Gate (do his wins still hold credence?)
Lot 220 a Somebeachsomewhere from a winner and producer who is a ½ sis to Sokyola
Lot 223 3rd foal of Heavens Trend, a full bro to the 2yo who has won
Lot 241 a ½ bro to Petacular and Idyllic
Next installment later

[Messenger]

Lot 245 a full bro to Major Kiss who only raced 13 times for 6 wins including a Gp1 Gold Tiara
Lot 249 a ½ bro to Its Beaujolais from an outstanding race mare
Lot 253 first foal of a multi winning daughter of Intrude
Lot 272 a ¾ bro to Askmeilltellya
Lot 282 first foal of a multi winning ½ sis to Safari

All I have to do now is check for some, whether the cross is a proven winner or loser

[Messenger]

Rightio

147 - not convinced about Art Major - Western Terror. I don't know how many times it has been tried but the cross has only produced 4 of Art's 790 Classic offspring
170 - Sweet Lou - Art Major only has Spirit Of St Louis to show for the cross at this stage.
177 - Always B Miki - Somebeachsomewhere might be OK as Miki only has 28 classic offspring and 4 of them are Beaches
180 - GOOD, the sire line has worked with the dam, the Captain is the go nowadays but one reservation - if you were to take Maajida out of the equation, would I be so keen (call it my liking more than one apple in my basket)
185 - have a full bro for proof
196 - a gamble as already stated
199 - this is an old mare so you won't be seeing too many Miki/Artsplace crosses. Miki's stars have been with Bettors
201 - none of the Captain's 119 classic progeny are out of a Fake Left mare but this mare produced Nostra Beach by the Captain's dad. Nevertheless I will recant my suggestion that this lot is an absolute standout on breeding but this is pretty great mare so why wouldn't the Captain click
207 - we have the 2 full sibllings and there have been plenty of nice horses with this Art/Christian cross but Our Golden Goddess $442k has been the highest stakes winner so you wouldn't want to overpay.
208 - not much to go on but this dam line with this sire line has produced a millionaire
213 - Captain is the boom sire and although Bettors has not been his best cross, it has produced one millionaire
215 - Art/Safely Kept has been a very good cross and the last time this mare produced a full bro to this one, it looked the goods before going amiss after only 5 starts. A great family
220 - full sis Soho Berlin was OK, the highest stake winner for Somebeach/Live or Die cross will soon be Boots Electric once he passes $202k
223 - with so many Bettors classic progeny you would think there would be something to recommend this cross with RRHeaven but there isn't
241 - Bettors/Western Ideal is a golden cross with a couple of NA millionaires, it would be worth inquiring how the mares previous 2019 foal (now 2yo) is going as it is also by Bettors as the 2009 Bettors didn't do much
245 - maybe for someone who was a fan of Major Kiss
249 - his full bro Brutally Handsome (now a 3yo) looks to have a future but last year's cross with Bettors was the text book one
253 - 4 of Miki's 28 classic progeny have been Art Major's but once again I have to say I would be wanting my Miki to be a Bettors
272 - we think Downbytheseaside is going to be the goods and her best in NA is this Bettors cross and the ¾ sis was good at 2. The dam also produced the dam of Act Now
282 - the dam line has worked with Bettors (Astronaut) and Bettors has produced some good ones with Mach Three although Classie Brigade with $587k has double anything else

As you can see I was only interested in a select few sires
All opinions are those of a true amateur

[Messenger]

With prime importance to Sire, dam, dam line/family, cross history, breeder, even foaling date - I think if I get rich between now and Feb 6, my pick would be 272
This is despite wanting a Captaintreacherous and the safety of a well bred filly (as a back up plan)

[Messenger]

I am changing my mind, what was I thinking - Lot 180 is my well bred Captaintreacherous filly that I liked from my first browse/post
(I wouldn't mind the filly and the colt :D)

ps and Lot 201 (as the mare clicks with everybody, so why not the Captain) and 185 if I had the bucks

[Messenger]

Gold Coast sale 3pm AEDST
I think Lot 16 will be the top priced filly as for the colts ????

Streamed here

https://www.apgold.com.au/live-streaming/

[Messenger]

Lot 16 Passed In at $70k - more are being passed in than sold. Vendors are being unrealistic

[Messenger]

The Passed In trend continues
Lot 54 an Ohoka Punter (service fee $1,800), unless you go back to the 3rd dam, the only selling point is that it is a half bro to Signor Jujon who has won $70k. They knock back $50k !!!!

This morning PP tried to rubbish lot 51 (as he does not like Dean Baring) - massive fail by PP as the filly just sold for $100k and is leading filly as we pass the half way mark

[Messenger]

Lots 10 & 13 of Lazarus's that got to $45k want $60k (Lot 38 of his got $60k). Memo to vendors, he is unproven and Bettors is yet to produce an heir/good siring son

[Messenger]

Is B.Graham Brittany?
Bought the Lazarus for $60k and Dean Baring's $100k Sweet Lou
with GST that is $176k in the shopping basket

[Messenger]

Lot 78 a Sunshine Beach colt was Passed In for $155k !!!!
A full bro to Gp1 2yo Awaywego but $155k is serious money

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Lot 46 a Betting Line (out of favour) late filly (Jan 15) from an ordinary Dam and 2nd dam AND they knocked back over $20k from memory

Edit My memory must have been wrong as I now see a Reserve of $15k

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Sales updates were good until Lot 56 but nothing since

https://www.apgold.com.au/sales/sales-results/2022-sales-results-series-33/gold-coast-2022/

[Messenger]

Not as many Passed In in the 2nd half of the sale but still 32 of 85 Passed In which is about 38%

[Messenger]

I am not sure why Lot 66 thinks they deserve $70k
His only real credential apart from being a Bettors is being a full bro to Lifes Black who has $96k in the bank but is not guaranteed to earn much more than $100k
$50k bid seemed a fair offer although if they paid $27k for the service?

[Messenger]

With his imminent move to Queensland, Tim Butt bought 4

[Messenger]

Lot 78 a Sunshine Beach colt was Passed In for $155k !!!!
A full bro to Gp1 2yo Awaywego but $155k is serious money

They want $180k for him !
Sunshine Beach stands for $4,000 in Canada
This is not a strong arm of N3
The following is the noteworthy descendants of his 5th dam
The 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd dams produced ZERO of note (the best being the dam ($53,789) by the 2nd dam)

It would seem that with a reserve like that the breeder did not want to sell the colt but had to put him through the sale to qualify him for the rich race series

From

https://classicfamilies.azurewebsites.net/CF/Descendants.aspx?HorseID=10007379

[Messenger]

I am not saying I would have paid $75k but PP is being very unfair saying that the buyer of Lot 36 - Downbytheseaside x Lislady is a sucker on the basis that the mare was previously purchased with this foal in its womb for $5,500
Back at that time Downbytheseaside was totally unproven/had had no progeny race. There was no guarantee the foal would even be born, what sex it would be, or how athletic in stature it would be. In future he will have to call out all pinhooking as this was an even bigger gamble by the purchaser of the mare (albeit at a bargain basement price) which was very successful even after expenses

[Lorraine]

The mare was purchased for a bit more than that and also had to come from NZ to Sydney then to Queensland and if they were willing to take the risk that Downbytheseaside would make it good luck to them.

[Messenger]

An interesting initiative - Owner to bring Non-Owner, who will have the chance to win a $5,000 voucher for the sale

https://www.thetrots.com.au/news/articles/enter-byowner-now-for-your-chance-to-own-the-moment/

IMO, all they will need to do then is chip in $5k of their own and find 3 friends to do the same and they might find a worthwhile purchase for around $25k

[Messenger]

BIG COMPLAINT about APG Melbourne Sale stream - there is no on screen info ie Lot No in ring (and the glare off the horse's sticker makes it impossible to read) and no $ current Bid info ie no Semaphore at all
You cant take a break from the audio (auctioneer barrage) as there is no other way of knowing what is going on

[Messenger]

Slow start to the Melbourne Sale so far (pacers that is - skipped trotters)
Half of the first 24 through the ring have been Passed In

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People that reneg on the bid they had knocked down because they think they could have got it cheaper (eg making their final bid $1k more not $2k more) deserve to be stoned by the auctioneer

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At least with the Melbourne auctioneers there is less need to turn off the audio as they rarely to the Yabbadabbadabbbadabba routine

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The fact that the Betting Line are lookers is keeping some interested

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I don't think it was a great auction for vendors
Pacers only:
Of the 134 that went through the ring
More sold for $10k or less (20)
than sold for $40k or more (18)

I think 37 were Passed In

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Results are up

https://www.apgold.com.au/sales/sales-results/2022-sales-results-series-33/melbourne-2022/

[Messenger]

The surprises amongst the big lots IMO were
Emma Stewart spending $95k on Lot 236, first season sire Vincent x Decapria colt. Decapria had some nice performances as a 2yo but I had to laugh at how the catalogue can manipulate things eg 3rd in heat Breeders Crown - there were only 3 in the heat
and Lot 261 going for $100k - Rocknroll Hanover x Madison Louise filly. She is a stunner and it is hot on the heels of King Of Swing's win

[Adaptor]

BIG COMPLAINT about APG Melbourne Sale stream - there is no on screen info ie Lot No in ring (and the glare off the horse's sticker makes it impossible to read) and no $ current Bid info ie no Semaphore at all
You cant take a break from the audio (auctioneer barrage) as there is no other way of knowing what is going on

What a disappointment..no visible lot number or current bid.

I'm not sure whether the Inglis facility for yesterday's sale has an electronic board above the auctioneer showing the lot number, and current bid price..like the one at the Magic Millions sale on the Gold Coast, but I gave up watching. If there is a screen above the auctioneers, then the camera needed to be adjusted.

Then I tried to keep track of the sold lot prices on the Sale Results but the update stopped after about 20 lots.

Do you think the auctioneers knew much about the lots they were selling? They seemed to be focusing on the sires, dam-sires etc, in preference to the families, and significant family members.

None of these seem too difficult correct. I hope Sydney is an improvement.

[Messenger]

Oaklands Junction certainly had an electronic board above the auctioneer decades ago when I attended Noel.

[Gtrain]

What a disappointment..no visible lot number or current bid.

I'm not sure whether the Inglis facility for yesterday's sale has an electronic board above the auctioneer showing the lot number, and current bid price..like the one at the Magic Millions sale on the Gold Coast, but I gave up watching. If there is a screen above the auctioneers, then the camera needed to be adjusted.

Then I tried to keep track of the sold lot prices on the Sale Results but the update stopped after about 20 lots.

Do you think the auctioneers knew much about the lots they were selling? They seemed to be focusing on the sires, dam-sires etc, in preference to the families, and significant family members.

None of these seem too difficult correct. I hope Sydney is an improvement.

The Facebook live feed was the spot you should have watched. Live bids were updated here along with the prices of the previous 3 lots. Excellent coverage.

[Messenger]

Bloody hell, thanks Grant, they gave 3 otpions for streaming, I was on computer so I started with their webpage, no semaphore so I thought I would try YouTube and it was just the same, so I just assumed all the same. FFS how is one supposed to know that facebook was the go

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Sold post sale
Lot 147 Art Major x Soho Bordeaux was originally passed in at $70k, had a reserve of $85k and has now gone to David Moran for $80k

[Messenger]

The surprises amongst the big lots IMO were
Emma Stewart spending $95k on Lot 236, first season sire Vincent x Decapria colt. Decapria had some nice performances as a 2yo but I had to laugh at how the catalogue can manipulate things eg 3rd in heat Breeders Crown - there were only 3 in the heat
and Lot 261 going for $100k - Rocknroll Hanover x Madison Louise filly. She is a stunner and it is hot on the heels of King Of Swing's win

PP is mischieviously suggesting that Lot 236 went so high because one of Emma's partners in the buy, is the son of the breeder

[KTQ]

It is time they amend or remove black type based on mile rate. 1 win 1.59.7 horses listed as black type is offensive

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Perth on Sunday with some relevant bloodlines going around tomorrow night (a kind of form guide)

http://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=51703

[Messenger]

You have to say that the APG catalogue is pretty honest
This is particularly true of the Sire's (leading) Progeny table under his pic
There is no hiding if there is only a couple listed that are more recent than 2014
Some people still buy them

[Messenger]

A quarter of the Perth catalogue being newbie Rock N Roll World is doing nothing for me (or the sale for that matter)

[Messenger]

The auctioneers seem to running to a strict schedule, there are times when they seem pretty quick to bring the hammer down - I myself still like the accepted practice of going Once, Twice, Three times - Sold

Who stands Rock N Roll World - Allwood WA or Cobbitty NSW

[Messenger]

The auctioneers do however seem knowledgeable

[Messenger]

Some good prices but a couple of sires probably brought the average down a bit although prolific Rock N Roll World didn't do too bad in the end

https://www.apgold.com.au/sales/sales-results/2022-sales-results-series-33/perth-2022/

[KTQ]

Rocknroll World is in WA at Allwood Stud. He brought low prices - some of those yearlings would have doubled in price with a commercial stallion. Despite his royal pedigree, he e didn't earn a huge amount, nor did he have a quick time against his name and buyers clearly saw that.

The auctioneers are always wonderful. Darren McCauley is a gallops caller and is knowledgeable on the trots too. It's always a fun day out, the sales, but I wish they'd put a few more tables and chairs in the room. We always find ourselves outside at the parade ring for lack of seating.
The last couple years they've had a camera crew interviewing buyers but only had a photographer this year. Same deal for the Sales Finals the other night. Previously they've filmed each horse in the stalls before the race and then interviewed the winning connections but nothing this year.

[KTQ]

Also bugs me that they dont put an overview of every sire, rather than just first year sires, in the catalogue book like they used to years back.

[Lorraine]

Rocknoll world stood this season at cobbitty Equine for Luke and Belinda McCarthy in NSW and the previous season he was at Goulbourn Valloey Equine Hospital in Vic

[Messenger]

Going through the Sydney Sale for tomorrow is hard work online as the catalogue is too small to read easily on my PC but if I enlarge it, it is blurry - cannot win

[Messenger]

You have to say that the APG catalogue is pretty honest
This is particularly true of the Sire's (leading) Progeny table under his pic
There is no hiding if there is only a couple listed that are more recent than 2014
Some people still buy them

It does annoy me that they do not include Foaling Date

[Messenger]

In the end, I was able to zoom through the Sydney catalogue

My 5 biggest factors are
1) What the sire has produced
2) What the broodmare has produced
3) What the broodmare did on the track (if she hasn't satisfied 2. above and has had limited chances to)
4) Has the sire clicked with the sire of the dam
5) The 2nd dam

We are looking for 1st division prize, not the horse that might win $100k. We don't want to gamble more than we have to, so no first season sires (unless they have had a great American crop) and no first foals unless the 2nd dam was prolific
With so many unproven sires, unproven broodmares, unraced mares = easy to eliminate most

I think I counted 28 Sweet Lou's, too many for me as I am not completely sold on him yet

My list of 'Most Happy For You to Buy For Me':

Lot 573 Colt by American Ideal x Perfect Penny, a ½ bro to Antonia and a full to Miss Halfpenny
Lot 628 Filly by Art Major x African Dancer, a full sis to Bamako Mali and Sheezallattitude
Lot 640 Colt by Captaintreacherous x Bettorthanyou, a ¾ bro to Sicario
Lot 646 Filly by Bettors Delight x Charlotte Church (Christian Cullen - the golden cross), a full sis to Wrappers Delight

There are others of the above golden cross which appeal (especially the last pacing lot of the sale which resembles Lazarus's pedigree) and a couple of Captaintreacherous that do not fit all my 5 criteria but I don't want to be greedy

[Messenger]

Sale has started
DO NOT WATCH ON THEIR LIVE STREAMING very poor 540p video quality and NO choice to improve
Go to their Facebook page and you can choose 1080p - it doesn't really look like 1080 but it is better

[Messenger]

First auctioneer is headache material - sound off (interesting that captions are automatically generated)

[Messenger]

Second auctioneer also headache material - why can't they just talk

[Messenger]

As Grant told us, all too late for the Melbourne sale, Facebook is certainly the way to view
Video is good except for the auctioneer due to lighting (but who cares about them) and plenty of info on screen

[Messenger]

Hey Katie, you guys bought the filly from Maxim's sister. Was Lot 597, Maxim's ¾ sis also in consideration?

[Messenger]

Passed In at $95k a Captaintreacherous filly, the first foal of an $87k winner, the mare being a full sis to Classie Brigade $591k. N43 is an OK family without being overly strong. Are we being greedy or are vendors wanting to keep?

[Messenger]

What was wrong with Lot 628 - the value of the Art Major click has diminished in recent foals?
I had been a bit lazy and not looked the dam up on HRA. The foal was a late one, Dec 30

[Messenger]

PP bags Michael Boots paying $120k for one of my favourites Lot 573
I don't know that I would have gone to that figure but PP's argument is all wrong
He doesn't think much of the choice of sire - American Ideal, saying the family has only ever worked with Bettors or Art
Get some new glasses PP
The colt is a full bro to Miss Halfpenny who won the NSW Breeders Challenge at 2 and ran 2nd in the APG final
Yep that is right - out of American Ideal
Not bad credentials if they are targeting this sales big juvenile money

[KTQ]

Hey Katie, you guys bought the filly from Maxim's sister. Was Lot 597, Maxim's ¾ sis also in consideration?

Hah I didn't even know. ��
I thought we had too many horses already