All things APG including the Captain Ravishing sale

[Messenger]

PP is asking how Derby finalist Captain Ravishing is owned by APG - does anyone know?

see Post 7 as to why this post and posts 2-6 have been moved from the NSW thread

[Messenger]

I have reliable info that there have been cases where horses are sold at the sales but the purchaser has not settled. I think this is one of those cases

[Danno]

I have reliable info that there have been cases where horses are sold at the sales but the purchaser has not settled. I think this is one of those cases

Can't say that is the case with this horse however the Sales Results published recorded him as being "Sold" for $80K to A. Portelli.

[Messenger]

Can't say that is the case with this horse however the Sales Results published recorded him as being "Sold" for $80K to A. Portelli.

I think that may just be on the day Dan before All Clear, you might say (and then somehow they were not forthcoming) as all 3 horses now owned by APG were supposedly bought by A.Portelli
I have had contact from one of the owners and been told that the APG paid them

[Messenger]

There has been Police and HRV action down at Terang this week
PP is saying that the biggest buyer at the Sydney APG Sale 2yrs ago never paid for the horses
How could APG make such a mistake, if indeed that is what happened - maybe we will see more horses going around in APG's name.
These horses would be 3yo's now and some are royally bred

https://www.apgold.com.au/sales/sales-results/2020-sales-results-series-31/sydney-2020/

[Messenger]

I might have to think of a better thread for all of this (here because the APG owned horse seemed related/similar)

I have looked up Tim McLean's 10 purchases from the 2020 Sydney APG and none have even been named

This from the local paper:

[Messenger]

This thread has been created retrospectively from posts originally in the NSW thread

You would think that there has to be an inquiry into APG. What with the $225k they appear to have worn from the A. Portelli purchases (one Sydney, two Melbourne), it appears we now have $576k of Tim McLean purchases (all from the 2020 Sydney sale). Whoever was handing out the credit had to have been sacked. I know that the A.Portelli vendors were paid (by APG?). If in total APG had to cover $801k - this is a big loss for the APG. It could be even more as there could be others and there were some Tim McLean small purchases at the Melbourne sale, like the Sydney purchases, none have been named/registered.

It is incredible to think that they have taken this long to act on the McLean horses. The value of these horses would have diminished substantially – if they don’t even race as 3yo’s their value would be miniscule. Mind you Captain Ravishing did get to race until the last month of his 2yo year, whether this was a maturity thing or the result of a long legal process - we deserve to know as APG is industry owned.

[Showgrounds]

I knew of the McLean rumours last year but couldn't find him as a licensee on Harness Web and cannot find any report of a disqualification. He was not the only one to welch on payment though as Captain Ravishing was knocked down to another person who is a well known participant. Guess what? The same person was at the APG sale in Sydney on Sunday!

How where they registered as a bidder? Who offered or approved them credit? How does APG get away with claiming it is a "not for profit" company whe it is seen to be owner of the racehorse Captain Ravishing? Who is paid the vendor of Captain Ravishing for the horse? Who has been paying the horse's bills? How do these occurrences comply with the company's constitution and rules?

Plenty of questions for the company to explain to its shareholders, or what remains, ASIC, HRA, etc. NB: As for the bona fides of the horse's ownership the horse is now in the name of Hassan Taiba as owner. I cannot find a way of determining when the change of ownership occurred however I recall noticing the APG as its owner when browsing the form guide last Saturday week.

Perhaps more gold coins than lolly wrappers were found down the back of the couch. Faces saved.

[Messenger]

I think it is one of those cases where you don't have to be disqualified to lose your license. I am thinking the Unpaid Forfeits list. Once upon a time you could find this list but I don't know where it is nowadays

[Messenger]

http://www.harness.org.au/rules/UNPDFLST.HTM#list

291. The Controlling Body shall keep a list known as the "Unpaid Forfeit List".

295. (1) The provisions of this rule apply to or with reference to a person named in the list, or in the equivalent list of a recognised harness racing authority as someone owing arrears, fees, charges or other amounts.

(2) The person named in the list shall be subject to the same disabilities and penalties as are declared by Rule 259 to apply to persons who are disqualified.

[Showgrounds]

Correct, but I can't find a list either. The HRA site lists all disqualified persons but no mention of a McLean. Harness Web lists only suspended drivers. I get the feeling the HRV site and the Integrity site do not wish to offend anybody. And it seems there is no way of tracking ownership changes. The results page for Melton on 14 January shows the horse (at its last win) was owned by APG. Click on the horse -owner H Taiba. Confused? Join the club.

[Messenger]

This thread has been created retrospectively from posts originally in the NSW thread

You would think that there has to be an inquiry into APG. What with the $225k they appear to have worn from the A. Portelli purchases (one Sydney, two Melbourne), it appears we now have $576k of Tim McLean purchases (all from the 2020 Sydney sale). Whoever was handing out the credit had to have been sacked. I know that the A.Portelli vendors were paid (by APG?). If in total APG had to cover $801k - this is a big loss for the APG. It could be even more as there could be others and there were some Tim McLean small purchases at the Melbourne sale, like the Sydney purchases, none have been named/registered.

It is incredible to think that they have taken this long to act on the McLean horses. The value of these horses would have diminished substantially – if they don’t even race as 3yo’s their value would be miniscule. Mind you Captain Ravishing did get to race until the last month of his 2yo year, whether this was a maturity thing or the result of a long legal process - we deserve to know as APG is industry owned.

One of Tim McLean's unpaid purchases ($100K), a close relative of Lazarus but now an unraced 3yo filly, is for sale by APG

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=52955

[Showgrounds]

One of Tim McLean's unpaid purchases ($100K), a close relative of Lazarus but now an unraced 3yo filly, is for sale by APG

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=52955

All of this surfaces a week after David Boydell steps down from APG. I've yet to see any explanations as to how Tim McLean was able to book-up so many yearlings without a line of credit. I suppose this will be revealed in court. How he was allowed to bid is something APG would like to keep unknown to save face with vendors. If you were to join the dots you might only need a bloody big pencil - and two dots.

And here is another $130k default purchase of McLean's. The accompanying fairy tale is a bonus from APG as a sweetener, but only for cash buyers.

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=52957

[Messenger]

Here is a link to The Weight In Gold sale for the 14 lots

https://harnessbred.com/APG/2022/WIG/CATALOGUE/#page/21

[Messenger]

Here it is with the prices that Tim McLean supposedly paid for them as yearlings at either Sydney or Melbourne.
I couldn't find the trotters (1&14)

[Showgrounds]

Good work Kev. Unfortunately they are all three year olds now so they will only bring a fraction of their breeder's original expectations.

[Messenger]

Yes, I cannot see the colts getting 30%, the fillies maybe although Betting Line does not help despite that annoying Empire ad (which covers up the digital tracking) telling us he is/was #1 2YO Sire

[Showgrounds]

I'd love to know who writes the drivel in the media releases for this re-sale. I see a bright future for the person as a writer for Mills & Boon. Such romanticism; Libertybelle Midfrew's colt, "Michael", proclaimed as having "the potential to develop into a Grand Circuit performer" (has JB been moonlighting for APG?). No doubt being by the great Bettors Delight out of a top-performing daughter of Chritian Cullen he has the credentials on paper. In reality you could say the same for any foal.

Unfortunately the advertorial cunningly fails to mention whether the 3yo has even been broken in, just "well handled". Oh, and the colt is actually a rig. I fear "Michael" might just be known around the traps as Mickey One-Nut.

[Messenger]

Dean Baring is listed as the Preparer

[Showgrounds]

Nuff said.

[Messenger]

All of this surfaces a week after David Boydell steps down from APG. I've yet to see any explanations as to how Tim McLean was able to book-up so many yearlings without a line of credit. I suppose this will be revealed in court. How he was allowed to bid is something APG would like to keep unknown to save face with vendors. If you were to join the dots you might only need a bloody big pencil - and two dots.

And here is another $130k default purchase of McLean's. The accompanying fairy tale is a bonus from APG as a sweetener, but only for cash buyers.

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=52957

A reader has told me he wrote to David Boydell asking, among other things, why as of March this year, the Financial Statements & Reports for Year Ended 30/6/2021 had not been lodged with Australian Securities & Investment Commission as is required by law.
The reader asks when will the Directors of Australian Pacing Gold Limited recognize the value in adopting a policy of transparency in regard to Financial Statements & Reports as this is a cornerstone of a respected and successful business
The reader finds it difficult to comprehend why industry participants have to pay a Government authority to obtain information as to how well APG Directors and Management perform their duties and deliver acceptable business
outcomes

[Showgrounds]

"Acceptable business outcomes" - the core of this debacle. Who actually owns APG these days? I see Club Menangle's chairman Robert Marshall is stated on the Club's website as Chairman of APG. I see the registered office of APG changed from Queensland to Menangle Park in October 2020. The big question remains as to why it has taken over two years for the bs story of the unpaid purchases to sneek into the public domain. It appears no disclosure from the company has been made public, or any clue as to how the affected vendors were compensated for there losses.

The only certainties are the directors were asleep at the wheel to have allowed this to have occurred and to have dragged on for as long as it has. The ultimate damage the company suffers will be measured by the loss of trust and support from breeders and vendors.

[Messenger]

I think this link is where you will be able to keep up with the 3 day duration Online Auction which commences at 2pm tomorrow/Wednesday

https://www.ardex.com.au/apgonlineauctions/default.aspx?pageaction=viewsale

[Messenger]

So far one of the lots which was originally sold for only $16k (that is if they had paid up) has the highest bid at $6k
It will be like ebay and all the bids will come in the last half hour

[Messenger]

Lot 4 now has a bid of $20k and there are 4 lots with bids over $10k

https://www.ardex.com.au/apgonlineauctions/default.aspx?pageaction=viewsale

[Messenger]

My favourite Lot2, the Bettor's filly closely related to Lazarus is up to $32k

[Messenger]

Lot 2 up to $40k now and Lot 9 has surpassed the sale price that fell through - amazing when he has missed his 2yo season and will be hard pushed to have any 3yo season

[Messenger]

With 30mins to got in the 2days plus auction
Lot 1 trotter had a bid of $20k, he ended up going for $50k after several 5min extensions which were the rules of the auction
Here is the complete results
Red is what they 'supposedly' sold for the first time
Green is what they got in todays online auction

[Messenger]

I am still not sure how the top priced colt got in this sale, he is actually already a 4yo that I cannot find in any APG catalogue (the other offering were 3yo's), he was bred by B. Dumnesy - a relie of John?

[Showgrounds]

It seems APG, once seen as the goose that laid the golden egg, is now looking like it lays dodo eggs. It has announced there will be no Sydney or Melbourne yearling sales in 2023. It will hold sales in Brisbane and Perth but major vendors have made "purely business decisions" and have taken there business elsewhere.

Nutrien wins, I gather.

[Messenger]

Here is the link

https://www.apgold.com.au/major-announcement-re-2023-sales/

PP is stating that he expects APG to be placed in receivership this year :eek:

[Messenger]

Going back to the very first post in this thread about Captain Ravishing racing for APG
Which was still the case at the time of the NSW Derby in March
How was he bought by current owner Hassan Taiba - was he advertised?

[Yabbie]

It seems APG, once seen as the goose that laid the golden egg, is now looking like it lays dodo eggs. It has announced there will be no Sydney or Melbourne yearling sales in 2023. It will hold sales in Brisbane and Perth but major vendors have made "purely business decisions" and have taken there business elsewhere.

Nutrien wins, I gather.

Although I do hear from some vendors that Nutrien is not the ideal solution either

Interesting times ahead

[Showgrounds]

Although I do hear from some vendors that Nutrien is not the ideal solution either

Interesting times ahead

Nutrien might not be ideal but it seems the company acts with integrity. Apply that test to APG and you understand why vendors have voted with their feet.

[Yabbie]

Nutrien might not be ideal but it seems the company acts with integrity. Apply that test to APG and you understand why vendors have voted with their feet.

I was merely passing on comment that I had heard. I don't breed so I don't deal with either of APG or Nutrien and cannot speak from experience.
Just to be clear, I certainly did not mean to imply that Nutrien does not act with integrity.

[Showgrounds]

I was merely passing on comment that I had heard. I don't breed so I don't deal with either of APG or Nutrien and cannot speak from experience.
Just to be clear, I certainly did not mean to imply that Nutrien does not act with integrity.

I don't mean to infer that you are Carol, I was just stating what appears obvious. Meanwhile, hot of the press, Nutrien now appears it wants to grind the bones of APG into dust:

CONTINUED GROWTH TO THE NORTH FOR NUTRIEN EQUINE

The Nutrien experience heads north in 2023 as we partner with the Albion Park Harness Racing Club to deliver the Sunshine Stars Yearling Sale.

Set to take place across the weekend of March 11 and 12, 2023 at the iconic Magic Millions sales complex, it will be an experience not to be missed. A weekend of organised social activities on the Gold Coast, mixed with sale horse inspections and the twilight live sale parade will all set the scene for an exciting start to the Sunshine Stars Yearling Sale on Sunday. This will ensure the buyers are in attendance to view the quality Queensland offering.

After a very successful 2021 sale for the standardbred industry held in Victoria, Nutrien Equine Standardbred grew to include a New South Wales sale alongside the Victorian event in 2022. “The growth into Queensland in 2023 is an exciting one for us” said Mark Barton from Nutrien Equine “particularly with this opportunity to partner with the standardbred industry in delivering the Sunshine Stars concept”.

Mark went on to say “Buyers who choose to sustain their purchase for the Nutrien Classic race series will automatically gain entry to the Sunshine Stars race series”. This new race series to be known as the Sunshine Stars and offering $500,000 in incentives, is an exciting reward for participants racing their 2YO and 3YO purchases from these sales.

Vendors will soon have the opportunity to nominate for the Sunshine Stars Yearling Sale, alongside the Nutrien Equine Sydney and Melbourne sales, all opening on July 26 this year. Simply visit the Nutrien Equine website and follow the links through to complete your nomination, which will be open until August 23, 2022.

[Messenger]

https://www.harness.org.au/media-room/news-article/?news_id=53349

It seems to find Advertised Content in HRA's Top Stories

[Messenger]

The APG 200+ lot Mixed Sale began online today
Here is a link about it

https://www.apgold.com.au/the-time-has-come-register-now/

I don't think this link to the online auction will work as I had to register and log in but I will post it with fingers crossed.

https://www.ardex.com.au/apgonlineauctions/default.aspx?pageaction=viewsale

I cannot see why it would need to be secretive - other than to garner contacts for interested people for future marketing

[Messenger]

Sirletic is in the Claimer at Bendigo on Saturday night

He has a claiming price of $95,000

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=BN300722#BNM30072206

He is also in the Sale (Lot 82) He has no reserve on him so as it stands right now the current bid of $500 is going to buy him

[Messenger]

See for yourself

[Showgrounds]

When I checked the on-line catalogue for this sale last week I noticed two glaring omissions - lack of names for supposedly named horses and no vendors listed for individual lots. Sure, you could do your own searches to try and figure out who was who in the zoo but cataloguing is a prime responsibility of the sales company. It would appear the company has failed its vendors initially. I haven't checked to see if this has been rectified but the company should be embarrassed by this. I noted that lot 82 featured a photo of Sirletic but the catalog did not give the name of the horse being put up for sale. The pedigree gave the sire and dam, a search on the HRA website showed the dam had only one progeny by RockN Roll Hanover - Sirletic.

Applying the Cheech and Chong methodology one could assume the horse being sold was indeed Sirletic. Given the oversights in the catalogue I mentioned though, you would want to establish this as fact before you bothered to register a bid.

[Messenger]

I did not see the catalogue until bidding had opened by which time they had his name up

He has only got up to $1,750 but still the best part of 3 days to go

He has not had a lot of starts for an 8yo but that is due to some lengthy layoffs - injuries

Dollar signs are bugger to type with one hand :mad:

[Messenger]

We still have 2 days of the mixed sale to go but I am still thinking 200+ lots is too big for an online sale

At this point there are 46 lots still without a bid
40 with bids of $1,000 or less that have not been accepted (still under Reserve)

24 have passed reserve (or had no reserve) and will be sold - mind you about half of these have 'leading' bids of $1,000 or less


Warning: do not operate machinery, make financial decisions or maybe post too much within 24hrs of having an anaesthetic - look at all the 'stills' in this post lol

[Messenger]

There are a couple of lots with 'Photo Coming Soon' - I think they are leaving it a bit late

[Showgrounds]

There are a couple of lots with 'Photo Coming Soon' - I think they are leaving it a bit late

Shoddy.

[Messenger]

Shoddy.

One of them, Lot 170, says it is consigned by APG and prepared by the man Dean Baring himself (see top and b0ttom of pedigree page)

https://www.ardex.com.au/apgonlineauctions/lot/78.170.htm

[Showgrounds]

One of them, Lot 170, says it is consigned by APG and prepared by the man Dean Baring himself (see top and b0ttom of pedigree page)

https://www.ardex.com.au/apgonlineauctions/lot/78.170.htm

Even shoddier.

[Messenger]

The first lot, Lot 1, the one creating the most interest so far, a weanling filly - Bettors x Localize, $45k after 20 bids but not yet at Reserve is due to finish at 5pm tomorrow (although last minute bidding can see 5mins added on and on)

[Showgrounds]

The first lot, Lot 1, the one creating the most interest so far, a weanling filly - Bettors x Localize, $45k after 20 bids but not yet at Reserve is due to finish at 5pm tomorrow (although last minute bidding can see 5mins added on and on)

I assume its breeder M. Wardle is the vendor, true to form the catalogue doesn't say. A truly outstanding filly on breeding and a top broodmare prospect. Her Art Major half-sister Golden Goddess was outstanding and her record would have been even better but for the misfortune of having Dream About Me and Piccadilly Princess as stablemates of her age. This filly is bred on the vaunted Bettors / CC Cross.

A long range tip from me - she has a 3/4 brother, a maiden, who will end the season as one of Australasia's best 2 year olds.

[Messenger]

With 5 hrs to go 41 are definitely sold
Lot 1 is up to $50k and passed reserve
Sirletic is up to $16,000

[Messenger]

Many lots constitute a 'clearance sale'
An unnamed 3yo gelding is not going to have any juvenile career so if the market is offering $2,500 - you are kidding yourself if you think you're getting $8,000

[Messenger]

Tumby Park wanted you to take 10yo gelding Always In Command (has not race for 15mths ) off their feed bill - Unreserved but no bids
He won 9 races for them - you would like to dream they are going to look after him

[Messenger]

Sirletic sold for $28k

[Messenger]

Tumby Park did not read the market too well - only 5 of their 21 lots sold

Tourello Standardbreds only sold 1 out 11 lots offered
(their piebald had a $5k reserve but the next highest reserve was $3k)

[Showgrounds]

Tumby Park did not read the market too well - only 5 of their 21 lots sold

Tourello Standardbreds only sold 1 out 11 lots offered
(their piebald had a $5k reserve but the next highest reserve was $3k)

I wonder if breeders of coloured standardbreds really expect to attract buyers of racehorses? The facts don't lie, breeding non-performers to non-performers nearly always leaves you with non-performers. Perhaps their should be a specialist sale for fanciers of this type of horse.

[Messenger]

65 of 205 Sold

[Messenger]

Remember the Weight In Gold sale of 14 3yo's that the APG had been left holding the can for (see post 28 for the results), well

Lot 3 the Bettors rig has been named Henty,
Lot 6 the American Ideal colt has been named Warandpeace
Lot 8 A Rocknroll Dance colt has been named Raby Bay
Lot 9 the Hes Watching colt has been named Hitch Hiker
Lot 14 the Skyvalley colt has been named Aldebaran Anton

so you would think that these 5 must be progressing

[Messenger]

2yo My Ultimate Jacko who was surprisingly sold for $40k at the recent Mixed Sale, despite finishing 2nd in a Gp1 shortly before
Did it again for new owners tonight and was only a HFHD off collecting the $60k for first

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=AP200822#APM20082202

[Messenger]

Going back to the very first post in this thread about Captain Ravishing racing for APG
Which was still the case at the time of the NSW Derby in March
How was he bought by current owner Hassan Taiba - was he advertised?

I know I am a stickler But I still want to know how Captain Ravishing was sold/ended up with Hassan Taiba

[Showgrounds]

I know I am a stickler But I still want to know how Captain Ravishing was sold/ended up with Hassan Taiba

I think I've given you as much as we know. The only certainty is APG will never disclose how this occurred. Unless somebody is put in a witness box, but, even then I would harbour doubts.

[Messenger]

Trying to get to the bottom of it, the most likely scenario I can come up with is

A.Portelli purchases the horse on March 8 at the 2020 APG Sydney Sale, maybe even had Hassan Taiba selecting/doing his bidding. Captain Ravishing goes to the Taiba's property. The credit of A.Portelli does not turn out to be bona fides for the 3 horses purchased in Portelli's name (and several purchased by Tim McLean) and they become the APG's property after the APG pay the breeders of these lots the money they were knocked down for.

They finally reclaim the unpaid lots from Tim McLean and sell them at the 'Weight In Gold Sale' finalized on July 1, 2022 - now unraced/unbroken? 3yo's

Prior to this, Captain Ravishing has somehow been trained up by Ahmed Taiba when in the ownership of APG (did this happen because the Taibas said the funds would be forthcoming?). Obviously Captain Ravishing has not been paid for in full by the time he is entered and has his first start on Dec 21, 2021
Why would APG allow this horse to race - of course it had to be in their name, despite questions as to whether this is actually permissible?
Why would the Taibas want to race the horse in the APG's name?
I am thinking the answer to both these questions might be that there was an agreement between both parties for the purchase of Captain Ravishing - maybe they were paying him off in instalments and there was no ownership transfer until he was paid in full

His second win was still in the APGs's name on Jan 14, 2022 and we cannot be sure when the transfer into Hassan Taiba's name took place except to say that by the time of his 3rd win on Sept 9, 2022 (only 5mths ago) he was in Hassan's name

Tim O'Connor had the opportunity to break the story/reveal all back in Jan 2022 if he had thought to ask about the peculiar ownership for he wrote:

[Showgrounds]

Kev, you know that "integrity matters". Except when it is inconvenient, like when a dodgy sale occurs under the guise of a company owned by state controlling bodies.

I have it on good authority the person who had his hand up when the hammer dropped was Haas Taiba's doppelganger.

[Messenger]

Yes Trev, it would seem no coincidence that one of the other lots supposedly sold to 'A.Portelli' has been named (but unraced as yet) Bettorbeawake and you will find on Harnessweb that it is owned by Hassan Taiba too

We will have to keep our eye out for the 3rd of A.Portelli's lots - a half bro to Hurricane Harley and bred by Anne, who is yet to be named

I am more comfortable with Hassan having been the bidder and eventual owner of these horses than thinking APG was stitched up at the sales and sold them a second time without public knowledge

[Messenger]

An update on the progress of horses that went through the Weight in Gold sale - the horses APG had to reclaim from Tim McLean (lots 2-13) and resell again as late 3yo's. Since my last update (post 57) five more have been named and all of these have raced (I have attached the Sale results again)

Firstly from the last update, Lot 8 Raby Bay had 4 starts as a 3yo last season for 2 Thirds, the others are still yet to race

The 5 named since that update:

Lot 2 is Champagne Delight is Very promising with 2/2 wins as a 3yo for the Stewart stable

Lot 4 is Doctor Go Joh who had 2 starts for 2 Fifths as a 3yo last season

Lot 7 is Solo Sync who has had 10 starts for 1 win for Ben Yole down in Tassie

Lot 11 is Get Up Betty who has had 2 recent 4yo starts at Menangle

Lot 13 is Perfect Trend had two 3yo starts at Leeton, running Second on debut

[Messenger]

APG 3yo heats at Kilmore tonight but there isn't really any eliminations happening

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=KI270423

[Messenger]

Sahara Miss provided a double on Mildura Cup night and tonight added 3yo APG fillies heat winner Sahara Breeze to make it 3 in 6 days

[Messenger]

Some biggish finals at Melton tonight
The first is R3 at 6.29

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/fields/race-fields/?mc=MX060523

[Messenger]

Considering Little Miss Lilly's 2nd in the fillies it would seem that the Pangrazio's wasted the dam Mystic Jewel, sending her to their trotting stallion early on. She is a ½ sis to the brilliant but ill fated filly Mindarie Priddy. No indication she has been served for the last 4yrs and they are running out of time as she is now 16yo