The Serious Shortcomings of HRA's performance records

[Messenger]

HRA's performance records for horses born in the late 70's and 80's are incomplete
We all know that the HRA db does not contain Horse Performance records prior to 1980 but it is the incomplete nature of them for the 1980's which need a lot of work or at least an * to say 'these records are incomplete'

Sure it is understandable that we were just going online at the time but incomplete records can be very misleading and people need a date from which they can be relied upon

Here are some examples

Black Top (1978) is listed as having won $101,089 with a record of 13 starts and 3 wins and when you click on the Racing Performances tab for him you will only see 13 starts listed for him (all in 1984) but with a little further investigation you will notice that these races do not produce $101k of prizemoney. Starts: 13 should at the very least be 13* (* incomplete). Black Top won a NSW Derby heat in 1982. If you are doing research for breeding or sale purposes you need to know that HRA records from around the early 80's cannot be relied on. It would almost be better if they were non existent (like pre 1980) than misleading by being incomplete

Under A Cloud (1976) only has 11 starts from 1984 listed and once again it doesn't match his prizemoney total listed for him. He won the 1980 Vic Derby. Better to see nothing listed so that you know you need to look elsewhere

There are hundreds of examples like this but what can make you believe them, is that for some horses you will see results from 81, 82, 83

Strong Recommendation: If you are looking at a late 70's/early 80's horse check him/her at

https://classicfamilies.azurewebsites.net/horsedetails.aspx

Or if you have the year books from around this period, check them
Just like you have to for horses from the early 70's and earlier, use these resources
If he/she is on classicfamilies, they have won a classic race or have progeny that have
HRA may lead you to believe otherwise

If HRA cannot afford to have all the data entered from say the 1980 year book onwards then they should * incomplete records, delete incomplete horse performance records (a bit drastic) or provide a warning at the top of the list which clearly states from what year onwards their records are complete

I edited this to include the 80's see post 8

[Showgrounds]

Or be old fashioned like me. I have every Australian Trotting Year Book from the mid-70's up to the last in 2000 when HRA, in its infinite wisdom, decided it was easier (for it, not us) to attach "chronicles" to the HRA website. I'll give you the tip, of I wanted to look up a horse's performances in any particular year or feature race I can do it within a minute from where I am sitting now.

Try looking up the Mildura Cup winner for 1977 on the HRA website. Make sure you make a fresh pot of tea to drink while you scour through the pages.

[Messenger]

I did say Classic Families or the Year Book, Trev
I reckon I might find the 77 Cup winner a little faster on Classic but it will not tell me the field, handicap, time, driver and exact date which the Yr Bk does if you look up more than the Principal races section. The early Yr Bk's did not have this section but they all had a clubs meetings index.

Classic's plus is the winners breeding (which is what Classics is about)

[Messenger]

Holy cow, forget getting the late 70's right, HRA are a 2 laps behind NZ - their performance records go back to 1955
You have to say this is an indictment against HRA

[Showgrounds]

It is not just the horses I have a problem with on the HRA website. The trainers and drivers records can't be used as a definitive source of information.

I see Howard James trained and drove a winner at Menangle today. Does his name ring a bell? He was formerly Brian Hancock's foreman and drove Thorate to victory in the 1990 Inter-Dominion final.

Either that was not a feature race or HRA does not recognize Howard James' achievement as significant as winning a Breeders' Crown final.

https://www.harness.org.au/racing/drivers/howard-james/

I note that James' record as a driver only goes back to 1990/91, his Inter-Dominion win being the previous season. Whatever, HRA's records diminish his record as a driver whereas records for other drivers go back to 1980/81.

[Messenger]

Understandably if you don't spend money on employees and technology a website can become a bit of a dog's breakfast which appears to be the case with HRA.
Most would have seen this at the bottom of their homepage
(to be continued next post)

[Messenger]

Don't click on Read More
or else you will get this!!!
Is it any wonder that I have not been able to get a trainer column added to their horse performances pages

NB the writing at the top This domain may be for sale

I am guessing we must have once owned the domain interdomhof as well as interdomhalloffame and it has never been cleaned up

[Messenger]

It is worse than I thought

Late 80's records are not complete

Use HRA Search to look up Village Kid

https://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/index.cfm?action=main.search

His racing performances chart is a complete mess
You would have hoped that for a champion foaled in the 80's we might get his whole racing performance

Not only do we not get anything before 1985, it is all the gaps (not declared mind you) that are the worst,
you would not know that he raced in 1989 much less won 3 heats of the Interdominion in 1989

[Adaptor]

It is worse than I thought

Late 80's records are not complete

Use HRA Search to look up Village Kid

https://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/index.cfm?action=main.search

His racing performances chart is a complete mess
You would have hoped that for a champion foaled in the 80's we might get his whole racing performance

Not only do we not get anything before 1985, it is all the gaps (not declared mind you) that are the worst,
you would not know that he raced in 1989 much less won 3 heats of the Interdominion in 1989

For more than 30 years, Bendigo trots historian Stephen Spark has compiled hundreds of accurate career records of notable horses. His original career record charts were compiled on a typewriter.

Steve has scanned the charts and they have been uploaded into the Harness Racing Heritage Collection at Lord's Raceway site on Victorian Collections.

Click here to go straight to Village KId:
https://victoriancollections.net.au/items/60b4d6138729d6bc59eeacb4

[Messenger]

Thanks Noel and Stephen (HRA should have gifted Stephen a computer and our records would be better ;))

This is a link to the alphabetical list of horse that Stephen typed up

https://victoriancollections.net.au/items/61ffc41c1564170a47d0e9b3

[Messenger]

Do Not Rely on HRA's progeny records for International Sires

If you look up Bettors Delight Progeny and go to Winners, even though you may go with the default setting which starts with Richest and includes Overseas winners, it will be incomplete

See the snip below (I am limited in the size I can attach). You don't see a Triple Millionaire below Lazarus BUT he has one. You will see 7 double millionaires but he has 10

I cannot offer a shortcut link as the HRA db does not let you (I guess it has to do with logging on etc). You will have to type Bettors Delight into the search link below to see the full page I snipped

https://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/index.cfm?action=main.search

The go to is ClassicFamilies. It has its faults too, in that if you look at the link I provide which has been sorted by clicking on Earnings (a second click on that column heading doesn't do anything other than put the 9's first), you have to look all the way down the column because anything beginning with 1 comes first so 1million winners are mixed up with 1 thousand winners BUT at least it has them all.

https://classicfamilies.azurewebsites.net/CF/Offspring.aspx?HorseID=10032109&SE=Earnings&AD=ASC

[Messenger]

Gee, I find HRA's records frustrating
Even the 1990's aren't up to scratch

I was looking up the breeding of R1 2yo winner at Kilmore tonight - Aureus
Her 3rd dam was Newbold Penny (1991) who had the magnificent record 21-14-4-1
She raced from 1994-6, just 26yrs ago, in the best races and won a couple of Gp1's and yet the column for Group Status on her Racing Performances chart is completely empty

When did the HRA eventually get their act together AND why can't some retrospective data entry be carried out
I reckon there are people out there that would volunteer their time to help if HRA could get themselves organized

[Bonnie]

HRA are too busy thinking up restrictive rules that are detrimental to the industry. Recent decisions will have a negative impact on the breeding industry and the opportunities afforded to young horses. Their record keeping is atrocious, naming a horse is an onerous exercise. Horses with the same name as 30/40 years ago are not allowed yet many entries in their database do not have complete pedigrees , often missing Sires / Dams.

[Messenger]

It is worse than I thought

Late 80's records are not complete

Use HRA Search to look up Village Kid

https://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/index.cfm?action=main.search

His racing performances chart is a complete mess
You would have hoped that for a champion foaled in the 80's we might get his whole racing performance

Not only do we not get anything before 1985, it is all the gaps (not declared mind you) that are the worst,
you would not know that he raced in 1989 much less won 3 heats of the Interdominion in 1989

I was looking up a first starter and saw Prince Of Gold was the damsire. Prince Of Gold was an outstanding 2yo in 1989. He only raced as a 2yo and was Stake Earner of the Year with $184k but if you look at his Performances on HRA, you will only see his 3 Victorian starts listed - no mention of his WA Gp1 Pearl.

Another example of how HRA/WA were not even completing their 2yo records on the db in 1989. I mean if you are just getting your system up and running you surely start with the 2yo's as then you can say that for horses born after 198x records are complete.

Whitbys Miss Penny won The Pearl the year after in 89-90 and it is not in her record either
So HRA/WA were not even completing their 2yo records in 1990
Finally in 90-91 WA records seem to get their act together
That is only 33yrs ago, how slow were they to get up to speed!