How good is McCarthy

[tiny]

How good is the Luke McCarthy team. I don't now why anyone in NSW bothers. His horses are just unbeatable. 4 winners at Menangle already and a special in the last. I haven't seen a trainer like him since Vin Knight. Luke is one of the greatest.

[barney]

Emma Stewart has had a great run this week unbelievable really .Not sure it is good for the sport when people dominate like they are.

[mango]

Hi Brian

If there willing to spend the $$$$ for the right horses i say good luck to them, it just means we have to try harder.

[mightymo]

Isnt it amazing how the hardest working trainers also seem to get the best results???

I have watched Mark Purdon and Cran Dalgety in NZ and McCarthy in Aust and they would all inspect the most horses and their attention to detail is amazing. They now also get to pick and choose which horses they take to train.

In my opinion a signifcant numbers of trainers are very lazy. They just expect good horses to land in their lap...

[barney]

Hi Brian

If there willing to spend the $$$$ for the right horses i say good luck to them, it just means we have to try harder.

Have a mate who has spent a lot of money and his horses are non competitive and he is no mug.I am not disputing the fact they spend the money get the results but still not sure if it is good for the sport.

[racefair]

Luke McCarthy turns around most horses and not just high value horses. So I don't think that is the major reason for his unbelievable strike rate. A high strike rate is even harder with a high number of horses.
In regards to working harder with more attention to detail. Well this could help but how do you turn around horses wth more attention to detail and by working harder in 1 or 2 weeks to improve by 2 or 3 seconds? The other thing is that his quality of work could not possibly be as high with the volume of horses that he has.
I don't know what he's doing differently but the reasons given above are not plausable silver bullets.

[tiny]

Luke coming to nsw is the best thing to happin here in a long time. He is so far advanced on any other trainer in nsw its not funny it is about time nsw got some honest exciting new trainers. Those that bag the bloke should have a look at the bloke he is the one good thing harness racing in nsw have at the moment.

He will get five winners on Saturday wait and watch.

[mightymo]

I dont think there are any magic bullets - its lots of little things that all add up to make a big difference

I agree 100% with Tiny.

[tiny]

Another pretty sweet performance from the McCarthy team today. Like I've said before he is that far ahead of any other Sydney trainer it's not funny.

[Itisi]

Luke McCarthy turns around most horses and not just high value horses. So I don't think that is the major reason for his unbelievable strike rate. A high strike rate is even harder with a high number of horses.
In regards to working harder with more attention to detail. Well this could help but how do you turn around horses wth more attention to detail and by working harder in 1 or 2 weeks to improve by 2 or 3 seconds? The other thing is that his quality of work could not possibly be as high with the volume of horses that he has.
I don't know what he's doing differently but the reasons given above are not plausable silver bullets.Mannings used to do that to don't know why they have slowed down and does anybody know why team Douglas stopped going to NSW

[THE SIVER FOX]

Mannings used to do that to don't know why they have slowed down and does anybody know why team Douglas stopped going to NSW

L McCarthy strike rate is starting to look like C Gleeson, D Aitkin in the good old days were they won the program between them on friday night's at H.P .

[triplev123]

Win a race now and again and otherwise all but eat the paint off the walls & generally speaking people will be happy for you. Win a race or two per week or otherwise snag that one good horse after years of pushing pie eaters around & the goodwill starts to dry up pretty quickly. Win a race or two or more per meeting or more or manage to get a string of handy ones through your stable & then all of a sudden you're the biggest bastard to have walked the face of the Earth. Jealousy, turning Saints into the sea. It's a terrible thing.

[Starship Captain]

Sad that this view is so common, it could be that heaps of today's harness racing fan's are




Merry Xmas

[racefair]

Win a race now and again and otherwise all but eat the paint off the walls & generally speaking people will be happy for you. Win a race or two per week or otherwise snag that one good horse after years of pushing pie eaters around & the goodwill starts to dry up pretty quickly. Win a race or two or more per meeting or more or manage to get a string of handy ones through your stable & then all of a sudden you're the biggest bastard to have walked the face of the Earth. Jealousy, turning Saints into the sea. It's a terrible thing.

Hi Jamie, I think that emotions extend beyond jealousy to dissapointment and frustration that even with the prizemoney increases and more money coming into the game, that most Sydney trainers and owners are still wasting their time when racing against Luke McCarthy.
He drives most of his horses confidently from any barrier, can death seat and still gets them home.
With 88 wins and over $850,000 in stakes already this season, he has taken a big amount out of the game.
Furthermore, he gets horses off good tainers such as Heath (Excel Stride) and Day (Roman Stride) because of his ability to improve anything. Some say that his transformation of horses in such a short space of time is unnatural.
Why would an owner give their horse to any trainer other than Luke McCarthy? That's a bad question for the livelyhood/business of any other trainer in Harness Racing that wishes to race in Sydney or in Group1 races.

[mightymo]

In Perth, Bond, Hall and Olivieri completely dominate. They often win the card between themselves and get many horses from around Aust and NZ to improve significantly.
In Vic, Douglas, Braun, Justice, Kelly and Lilley are doing likewise.

Does that mean they are all cheats??

I dont think so. These stables generally have great facilities and plenty of well purchased stock including some high priced lots and they seem to get the best out of the horses.

People are very quick to talk about the horses that improve, but there are just as many where there is no improvement. Luke sacks plenty of horses because he cant get them to improve and they often land up in Qld where the racing is weaker.

For mine the most improved horse in the country is Heza Trick. Six months ago he was racing in the deep south of NZ and had won 1 out of 5 starts in 2.11!!!! God forbid, this should be natural improvement...

Maybe all these whingers should go and spend some time at these stables and see exactly what they are doing. For mine, the hardest working trainers seem to be getting the rewards...

[Big Max]

Absolutely agree 100% with you Mighty but "QLD where the racing is weaker" i really don't think so.Sydney metro racing and QLD metro racing are on a par in my opinion, we have M0's and M1's regularly running miles in 55 and 56.The days of coming up to Qld and piss whacking the locals is well and truly over.

[Big Max]

Merry Christmas to all and a safe and happy new year

[mango]

Hi Jamie, I think that emotions extend beyond jealousy to dissapointment and frustration that even with the prizemoney increases and more money coming into the game, that most Sydney trainers and owners are still wasting their time when racing against Luke McCarthy.
He drives most of his horses confidently from any barrier, can death seat and still gets them home.
With 88 wins and over $850,000 in stakes already this season, he has taken a big amount out of the game.
Furthermore, he gets horses off good tainers such as Heath (Excel Stride) and Day (Roman Stride) because of his ability to improve anything. Some say that his transformation of horses in such a short space of time is unnatural.
Why would an owner give their horse to any trainer other than Luke McCarthy? That's a bad question for the livelyhood/business of any other trainer in Harness Racing that wishes to race in Sydney or in Group1 races.

Both horse's you mention have ability and done a good job for there previous trainer's, Excel stride has not raced for Luke as yet but i would not be suprised if he does improve a little but that could also be because of the way Luke drive's them (American Style) as for Roman Stride it could be that the change of stable was good for him as Luke has a swimming hole and day yards for them to stretch there leg's where that was not available to the horse before.

[mango]

Hi Mightymo

I would agree with you 100%, they spend top $$$$$ for the good one's and they pick the eye's out of them. I think most of them do there home work before they buy and i know Lance sometime's jumps on a plane and heads to n.z to drive up to 6 horses and then if he like's something he buy's. People should also understand these trainer's don't just take any horse's into there stable they only take the good one's and turn away the one's they don't want. I recently rang one of the trainer's mentioned by Mightymo and asked him to watch a 3yr old filly race in n.z who had a price tag of $70k n.z and the trainer said he would watch the race and go back and look through the form he then also told me if he like's what he see's he will contact the trainer to see if the horse would suit him, the horse performed well below average and i never heard from the trainer so that summed that up.

[Itisi]

Can remember when Glen Frost was the go up in Sydney and he would drive all over Vic looking and driving horses to he found the right ones as we all know you gotta do the hard yards . Then success breeds success.

[Starship Captain]

Mr Anderson should send Heza Trick too Sydney, I would love to see him go around Menangle with L.Mc behind him.

[triplev123]

People are very quick to talk about the horses that improve, but there are just as many where there is no improvement. Luke sacks plenty of horses because he cant get them to improve

[VVV] Therein lies the basic key to it for mine Harvey.
Instead of punching around a string of so so's and also rans, he either doesn't accept them to train in the first place or otherwise if they happen to have reached their mark whilst under his care he quickly move them on to wherever it is that they can be competitive again.
People see Luke winning multiple races with a big team but what they don't see is just how much work goes into them and how many go through the system behind the scenes that don't make the cut.
He also has, IMO, a very significant edge by way of his resident 'yard sticks' for want of a better description. If he gets a 2yo that he finds on the training track can go head to head with one of his known quantity/better 3yos...or maybe a 3yo comes along that shows him it can go with one of his Open Class types or a filly that can beat up on one of his good colts or whatever, then of course he knows straight away that he's got something pretty smart. The big stables have their advantages and their disadvantages of course. That is one of their great advantages.

Anyone know how long it takes for a Turkey to cook? This thing looks like a plucked Ostrich.

[peteboss4]

Hi Jamie, I think that emotions extend beyond jealousy to dissapointment and frustration that even with the prizemoney increases and more money coming into the game, that most Sydney trainers and owners are still wasting their time when racing against Luke McCarthy.
He drives most of his horses confidently from any barrier, can death seat and still gets them home.
With 88 wins and over $850,000 in stakes already this season, he has taken a big amount out of the game.
Furthermore, he gets horses off good tainers such as Heath (Excel Stride) and Day (Roman Stride) because of his ability to improve anything. Some say that his transformation of horses in such a short space of time is unnatural.
Why would an owner give their horse to any trainer other than Luke McCarthy? That's a bad question for the livelyhood/business of any other trainer in Harness Racing that wishes to race in Sydney or in Group1 races.
3yo Grand Stride won in 1.52.7 by a space yesterday, he had trialed in 1.56.4 on Dec 13th, even though it was a trial he improved neally 4 sec. Thats amazing. There are some nice 3yos around, inc Gamechanger, Theartofdelusion, Three Over Three, Scandalman, Karloo Kix, Uncle Lile, Magic Bliss, Waldenburg, Waltzing With Cullen, Major Post etc, but can they run that ?????. Intrestingly Gamechanger beat Grand Stride by 24 mtrs at his 1st race start as a 2yo in 1.56.6.
Luke sure improves them !

[A BIT DUSTY]

Win a race now and again and otherwise all but eat the paint off the walls & generally speaking people will be happy for you. Win a race or two per week or otherwise snag that one good horse after years of pushing pie eaters around & the goodwill starts to dry up pretty quickly. Win a race or two or more per meeting or more or manage to get a string of handy ones through your stable & then all of a sudden you're the biggest bastard to have walked the face of the Earth. Jealousy, turning Saints into the sea. It's a terrible thing.

Hi Jamie Sorry to go back so far into a thread , but Iv'e been doing time on the sideline. I agree with your sentiments regarding the changing of peoples opinion the more success you have the little green monster does rare its head . But I think when it gets to the volume that we are talking about here it is a bit rich to think that jealousy is the sole reason for people rightly voicing their concerns. I admire Luke McCarthy for what he has achieved in the sport and I know that when he was in QLD with his dad they got plenty of winners and improved horses, But I think you would have to agree it was never so dramatic as it is at the moment. Over the years when trainers improved horses overnight as Luke is doing (and not from mug trainers ,unless you class the Days, and B Hancock as mugs) there was always questions being asked as to how this can be possible . In my 40yrs of observation the reason for these Dramatic improvements usually become evident with new drug testing technology some time in the future . IMO you can not continually improve horses by as much that most of these horses are being improved by training methods alone. The professional trainer will always have an edge over a hobby trainer granted, but Luke is improving horses by incredible amounts that were previously trained by Premiership winning trainers in a matter of days ( look up Mandy Rambos , Artifactor, Roman Stride, just to name a few, stats) Now I know other trainers have dominated premeirships in the past without being questioned ,but I can not in my 40yrs recall any other trainer improving so many horse in such short times and them winning by the huge margins that we are seeing at the moment. If he is achieving these results on training talent alone than IMO he is the greatest trainer that has ever trained in the history of our sport.

[sharkie]

its been a common practice for years, any trainer that spends time in the USA comes back to our shores better trainers, or they have better knowledge of the latest performance enhancing drugs, in L Mc i truly think his training ability is far superior .

[triplev123]

Sharkie, that's a pretty thin old premise IMO...and I say that because it cuts both ways. There have been just as many if not more to have spent time in the US/CAN and come back seemingly unable to train a rampant Choko Vine over an outdoor dunny.

An Oz born and bred and now returned trainer of whom I suspect very few would know spent extended time in one of THE biggest US based chemical powered barns that there has ever been in the sport of Harness Racing, eventually 'inheriting' the contents of said barn virtually lock, stock and barrel after his boss at the time, the one and only Richard Chansky, went on the run to evade the NJ Police.
Now that young fella continued to train winner after winner after winner at The BIG M...at one stage I recall him even threatening to take out the Meadowlands leading trainer title such was the success he experienced....HOWEVER after experiencing what I understand to have been 'trumped up' US Visa violation charges, he returned to Oz & virtually could not win a race & as far as I'm aware he has now all but faded from view. He trained for a fella I know in the US & he absolutely swore by him so work that one out? Bugged if I know.

BUT, I disgress.
The fact is, and Harvey will back this up I am sure, behind the scenes I would hazzard a guess that there are probably three or four times as many horses Luke is offered that he'll tell you himself he can't get going/he can't improve/he doesn't accept to train in the first place because he knows that they will not suit his program.
Those who hang crap on the guy just don't see what goes through the system in order to produce the 2-3-4-5 winners a program. Ultimately, he doesn't need me to defend him, Luke's a big boy & can take care of himself and if not, should the need arise, Belinda will see to it I'm sure. I admire what he's doing at Menangle. He has taken what is required to compete out there to another level and good for him.

[tiny]

I'm with VVV the suggestion that Luke would involve himself in any type of wrong doing i find offenceive and is a pretty sad reflection of what some people in harness racing have become. I stated this thread to talk of what Luke has done, which was inject a bit of excitement in what was the tired corrupt NSW harness racing.

Luke is doing things with horses no other trainer in NSW or Australia can do. If you were smart you would be backing his horses after all 4 or 5 winners in my book is pretty good punting.

Instead we hear he's filling them up or there team driving. Just stupid

Luke has the best team of horses because he is the best trainer in NSW by the length of the menangle straight and when you have the best team you win the most races pretty simple. If you own a good horses and don't offer it to Luke you are mad most owners have seen that you can't beat him so they do the smart thing and join him.

To the moderators please delete this thread because some sick twisted jelous inderviguals have twisted this thread into slanderous crap.

[A BIT DUSTY]

lets put it this way if it looks,walks,smells,and acts like a rat its a rat and i smell a rat with the golden team

That's the thing. its happened in the past with people jumping to the defence of others, only to see their belief's shattered when the truth comes out.

[ringman]

I remember back in the 80s people saying J Beeby(Shakey Jake and others) was a good trainer which was not the case as he had "the croc" behind him with the right feeding program and it sure as hell wasnt oats.they would have a good old laugh about it at the game(two up) at Strathfield the croc owned.John wouldnt blink an eyelid if he lost 10k at the game because easy come easy go and he was getting the cash easy.

[p plater]

Thought it might be interesting to look back at history at the Metro Trainers Premiership in NSW

Season 2006/7 Paul Fitzpatrick 52 wins 228 strs strike rate 22.8%
Season 07/08 "" "" ...................41....... 206 ................... 19.9%
Season 08/09 "" "" ...................76 ...... 291 ....................26.1%
Season 09/10 "" "" ...................36....... 189 ....................19.0%
Season 10/11 ...David Thorn .....39 .......185 ................... 21.0%
Current (4 mths) Luke McCarthy 37 .......130 ....................28.4%

[Greg Hando]

I'd love to have a horse good enough to even consider asking him to train.

[remington]

Got to love the Luke haters. Champion bloke, champion trainer with champion horses. Could be looking at nearly 10 winners over the next 48 hours

[triplev123]

Such is the price paid for being a leading trainer in NSW. Thorny found that out and before him so did Fitzy.
Anyone that's not starving in the gutter with the arse out of their pants & finding themselves having to periodically line up at the Matthew Talbot soup kitchen for a feed is fair game. Unfortunately that is the nature of things & whilst it is obviously desperately sad...it is also as predicable as a sun rise.